23 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

Why not? It is a job. Because it pays more doesn't make it not a job. And, why should people who make a lot of money be held to some other standard. Maybe he wants to direct  hundreds of millions of dollars to build charter schools across the country and it requires that kind of money. We don't know any of that and he created the situation by which he can be so highly compensated. The analogy is about human behavior and choices, not wage levels. People who make a lesser wage still go out and drink, eat, go to sporting events, etc. -- they make discretionary choices with their income that is not in the service to others or improving the place where they work. The only difference is the magnitude of the compensation and that is determined by the market. Judging how people behave, if they are committed to winning as you wrote, based on whether he takes a below market amount is no different that judging working people who drink beer as being bad parents because the money they spend on beer is a detriment to their kids college fund. No insult intended but I think your analysis has a bias against million dollar wage earners or perhaps Hurts. The analogy holds if you understand it.

Yeah, we don't need to continue this discussion if you have to ask that first question.

47 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

And how long do you think Land and Kelce will be playing? He's played 3 years and the shots he takes running is going to pile up. Cam was much larger and he went to crap. I hope he plays until he is in his 40s, but even McNabb hit a wall and broke down around 30. Hell, Wentz wasn't the same after a few hits. He played smarter after the injury and I hope he continues that, but an 8-10 year deal would be a mistake IMO.

There aren't very many examples of contracts that long, but none of them are/would be guaranteed for the duration. The first few years are likely guaranteed, but after that, the team would have "outs" if they choose to use them. 

 

I still don't understand the health worry. If he was an oft-injured player, a concern would be warranted, but Hurts has been playing a certain style of football through college and as a pro. His injury history is short. In other words, he has proven quite durable. For comparison purposes:

Jalen Hurts' Injury History

Date	League	Injury	Details
Oct 20, 2018	Non-NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Hurts suffered a high ankle sprain during the game vs. Tennessee. He missed three games
Nov 28, 2021	NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Hurts suffered an ankle injury in a Week 12 loss to the Giants. He missed one game
Dec 18, 2022	NFL	Shoulder S/C Joint Separation	Hurts played through the injury in Week 15 but missed the next 2 games.

 

Now compare that to his former college teammate over the same span:

 

Tua Tagovailoa's Injury History

Date	League	Injury	Details
Nov 16, 2019	Non-NFL	Inguinal Hip Strain	Tagovailoa suffered a dislocated right hip in the second quarter vs. Mississippi State and underwent successful surgery. He missed the rest of the season.
Mar 20, 2018	Non-NFL	Hand Finger Fracture	Tagovailoa suffered an injury to his left throwing hand when he hit his hand on a lineman’s helmet. He underwent surgery
Oct 13, 2018	Non-NFL	Knee Patella Sprain	Tagovailoa tweaked his knee after sliding on a play in the third quarter during the Missouri game on Oct. 13. He was available for the next game
Nov 10, 2018	Non-NFL	Leg Quad Strain	Tagovailoa suffered a quad injury late in the third quarter during the game against Mississippi State. He was available for the next game vs. the Citadel
Dec 1, 2018	Non-NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Tagovailoa suffered a left ankle injury against Georgia in the SEC Championship Game vs. Georgia. He underwent surgery to repair his ankle.
Oct 19, 2019	NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Tagovailoa injured his right ankle during Alabama's win over Tennessee. He underwent a successful tight-rope procedure and missed one game
Nov 25, 2020	NFL	Hand Thumb Sprain	Tagovailoa missed the Week 12 game against the Jets as he suffered a thumb injury in practice.
Sep 19, 2021	NFL	Chest Rib Fracture	Tagovailoa suffered fractured ribs during the Week 2 game against the Bills. He was placed on IR and missed three games
Nov 3, 2021	NFL	Hand Finger Fracture	Tagovailoa missed the Week 9 game due to a small fracture in the middle finger of his throwing hand.
Sep 29, 2022	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Tua was stretchered off in a Week 4 loss to the Bengals.
Dec 25, 2022	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 3	Tua missed the remainder of the regular season. He didn't clear concussion protocol until around January 31.

 

The bottom line is some guys are more durable than others, some are more fragile than others. The sport of football is the injury risk. 

You’re downplaying his ankle injury last year. Yes he missed only one game but it did require surgery to repair 

12 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

You’re downplaying his ankle injury last year. Yes he missed only one game but it did require surgery to repair 

 

7 hours ago, rrfierce said:

Its a good point. 

Pretty sure that 2 years ago there was a 2022 cap hell thread - well we're not in hell and we just made a superbowl. 

Sometimes people worry for no reason.

Most NFL contracts are barley worth the paper they’re written on. Most 10 year deals aren’t actually so. They’re closer to half that time with escalations that allow for restructuring or outs all together. There’s no reason for anyone to get bent out of shape over years or even numbers. None of it is set in stone even when guaranteed money is involved. There’s always a way out. Two things that are being completely over blown and that’s Jalen being called injury prone and Jalen’s contract talk. People are crying and assuming way too much on both. It’s not fair to act like it’s a lot of people. It’s actually a very small minority. 

40 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

There aren't very many examples of contracts that long, but none of them are/would be guaranteed for the duration. The first few years are likely guaranteed, but after that, the team would have "outs" if they choose to use them. 

 

I still don't understand the health worry. If he was an oft-injured player, a concern would be warranted, but Hurts has been playing a certain style of football through college and as a pro. His injury history is short. In other words, he has proven quite durable. For comparison purposes:

Jalen Hurts' Injury History

Date	League	Injury	Details
Oct 20, 2018	Non-NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Hurts suffered a high ankle sprain during the game vs. Tennessee. He missed three games
Nov 28, 2021	NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Hurts suffered an ankle injury in a Week 12 loss to the Giants. He missed one game
Dec 18, 2022	NFL	Shoulder S/C Joint Separation	Hurts played through the injury in Week 15 but missed the next 2 games.

 

Now compare that to his former college teammate over the same span:

 

Tua Tagovailoa's Injury History

Date	League	Injury	Details
Nov 16, 2019	Non-NFL	Inguinal Hip Strain	Tagovailoa suffered a dislocated right hip in the second quarter vs. Mississippi State and underwent successful surgery. He missed the rest of the season.
Mar 20, 2018	Non-NFL	Hand Finger Fracture	Tagovailoa suffered an injury to his left throwing hand when he hit his hand on a lineman’s helmet. He underwent surgery
Oct 13, 2018	Non-NFL	Knee Patella Sprain	Tagovailoa tweaked his knee after sliding on a play in the third quarter during the Missouri game on Oct. 13. He was available for the next game
Nov 10, 2018	Non-NFL	Leg Quad Strain	Tagovailoa suffered a quad injury late in the third quarter during the game against Mississippi State. He was available for the next game vs. the Citadel
Dec 1, 2018	Non-NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Tagovailoa suffered a left ankle injury against Georgia in the SEC Championship Game vs. Georgia. He underwent surgery to repair his ankle.
Oct 19, 2019	NFL	Pedal Ankle (high) Sprain Grade 3	Tagovailoa injured his right ankle during Alabama's win over Tennessee. He underwent a successful tight-rope procedure and missed one game
Nov 25, 2020	NFL	Hand Thumb Sprain	Tagovailoa missed the Week 12 game against the Jets as he suffered a thumb injury in practice.
Sep 19, 2021	NFL	Chest Rib Fracture	Tagovailoa suffered fractured ribs during the Week 2 game against the Bills. He was placed on IR and missed three games
Nov 3, 2021	NFL	Hand Finger Fracture	Tagovailoa missed the Week 9 game due to a small fracture in the middle finger of his throwing hand.
Sep 29, 2022	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1	Tua was stretchered off in a Week 4 loss to the Bengals.
Dec 25, 2022	NFL	Head Cranial Concussion Grade 3	Tua missed the remainder of the regular season. He didn't clear concussion protocol until around January 31.

 

The bottom line is some guys are more durable than others, some are more fragile than others. The sport of football is the injury risk. 

How do you not understand the health concerns of running QB close to 30? Name one QB who ran as much as he does who didn't degrade. You can't use Young because he was a passing QB. The answer is none. They all hit a 30-33 year-old wall and crash.

1 hour ago, Diehardfan said:

And how long do you think Land and Kelce will be playing? He's played 3 years and the shots he takes running is going to pile up. Cam was much larger and he went to crap. I hope he plays until he is in his 40s, but even McNabb hit a wall and broke down around 30. Hell, Wentz wasn't the same after a few hits. He played smarter after the injury and I hope he continues that, but an 8-10 year deal would be a mistake IMO.

How bad are you expecting our Oline to be after they retire? Stoutland may have found Kelce's replacement and they'll find Lane's. I still think we'll be a top 5 Oline

Cam was like Wentz and Allen where he tried to break tackles because he's a big ass guy. The refs also didn't flag a bunch of hits and the league didn't change any rules back then. Hurts will run out of bounds. He has tried to break tackles to gain the 1st down more than I'd like but it's not as bad as others

I agree he's been playing smarter. He either realizes his future is at risk or the coaches talked to him or both. Either way it's a good thing to live another down. Too many damn weapons on offense for him to be trying to break tackles for that 1st down

He's still getting probably 45-50M and deserves it. There's a possibility they go the 10 year route but I doubt it. I also doubt Howie gives him a fully guaranteed contract like Watson but I don't think that's due to any injury. Browns were just stupid for doing that for Watson

52 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

How bad are you expecting our Oline to be after they retire? Stoutland may have found Kelce's replacement and they'll find Lane's. I still think we'll be a top 5 Oline

Cam was like Wentz and Allen where he tried to break tackles because he's a big ass guy. The refs also didn't flag a bunch of hits and the league didn't change any rules back then. Hurts will run out of bounds. He has tried to break tackles to gain the 1st down more than I'd like but it's not as bad as others

I agree he's been playing smarter. He either realizes his future is at risk or the coaches talked to him or both. Either way it's a good thing to live another down. Too many damn weapons on offense for him to be trying to break tackles for that 1st down

He's still getting probably 45-50M and deserves it. There's a possibility they go the 10 year route but I doubt it. I also doubt Howie gives him a fully guaranteed contract like Watson but I don't think that's due to any injury. Browns were just stupid for doing that for Watson

Nothing is guaranteed. I'd love to see 6 years 47 million a year. That's me. We'll see

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

 

Yes? He had surgery, I don’t need some jabroni on YouTube telling me the same thing

27 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Nothing is guaranteed. I'd love to see 6 years 47 million a year. That's me. We'll see

Don’t bother. Anything less than effusive praise, or unbridled, unchecked optimism regarding Hurts is met by an army of Squirters in here. There’s no room for meaningful discussion.

1 hour ago, Diehardfan said:

How do you not understand the health concerns of running QB close to 30? Name one QB who ran as much as he does who didn't degrade. You can't use Young because he was a passing QB. The answer is none. They all hit a 30-33 year-old wall and crash.

Name some QBs that ran as much as him. Just because it hasn't been attempted does not mean it can't be done. Now that the NFL is evolving around these dual threat QBs, we'll actually get to see if the argument holds water --- but it won't be until later in their careers. 

 

News flash, Hurts is a passing QB too. Just because he runs a lot does not mean he can't pass. So I can use Steve Young and anybody else I choose to use. As for Cam Newton, my own personal opinion of his career is it fizzled because he didn't work as hard to get better as a player like Hurts and Brady. There has to be some growth or you're just a 30-some-year-old rookie (but not on a rookie contract). McNabb hated being labeled a "running QB" and chose not to run, often to the detriment of the team. Young and Elway did the things they did with their feet throughout their entire career. There's a phenomenon that happens to players as they age, often referred to as "losing a step." If this happens to a dual threat QB, he may choose to run less later in his career as younger, faster players can catch him sooner. It's something that will naturally balance as time dictates. But the best QBs learn tricks along the way and figure how to best use their traits even when they aren't as "young."

 

In today's NFL, in the twilight of your career, you had better be playing at the top level and your team had better be winning or they will eventually turn to a younger, cheaper option. That's why players like McNabb, Elway, Cunningham, Young, Vick, Newton, and even passers like Warner, Montana, Marino, etc... eventually had to hang it up. It wasn't because they were rolling around in wheelchairs.

 

 

33 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Name some QBs that ran as much as him. Just because it hasn't been attempted does not mean it can't be done. Now that the NFL is evolving around these dual threat QBs, we'll actually get to see if the argument holds water --- but it won't be until later in their careers. 

 

News flash, Hurts is a passing QB too. Just because he runs a lot does not mean he can't pass. So I can use Steve Young and anybody else I choose to use. As for Cam Newton, my own personal opinion of his career is it fizzled because he didn't work as hard to get better as a player like Hurts and Brady. There has to be some growth or you're just a 30-some-year-old rookie (but not on a rookie contract). McNabb hated being labeled a "running QB" and chose not to run, often to the detriment of the team. Young and Elway did the things they did with their feet throughout their entire career. There's a phenomenon that happens to players as they age, often referred to as "losing a step." If this happens to a dual threat QB, he may choose to run less later in his career as younger, faster players can catch him sooner. It's something that will naturally balance as time dictates. But the best QBs learn tricks along the way and figure how to best use their traits even when they aren't as "young."

 

In today's NFL, in the twilight of your career, you had better be playing at the top level and your team had better be winning or they will eventually turn to a younger, cheaper option. That's why players like McNabb, Elway, Cunningham, Young, Vick, Newton, and even passers like Warner, Montana, Marino, etc... eventually had to hang it up. It wasn't because they were rolling around in wheelchairs.

 

 

We will see. The body can only absorb so many blows. Yes, he throws, that wasn't disparaging, but he runs more than most QB. He missed brief time two years in a row now and is only 24. If you think he can continue to take hits and maintain things at an elite level  until 34 we will strongly disagree. 

"Howie Roseman said Thursday the Eagles hope to sign Jalen Hurts as soon as possible. Hurts, who replaced Wentz late in 2020, is expected to get a deal worth $45 to $50 million that will once again give the Eagles one of the highest-paid quarterbacks in the league.

If Roseman is reticent about breaking the bank again with a potential franchise quarterback after his third season, he’s not letting on.

"I think each example is on its own,” he said. "And you've got to look at the individual player, and that's not to be critical to anyone we've given a contract to that hasn't worked out.

"But I think when we talk about Jalen, we're talking about a guy we have tremendous confidence in, a guy that we want to be here for a long time. And so, it will be something that will be a priority for us.”

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/eagles-gm-howie-roseman-finally-120000360.html

Sure does seem like the Eagles aren’t concerning themselves with this worry about paying Jalen nor are they worried about him being injury prone. We now have Lurie, Sirianni, and Howie all singing the praises of Jalen Hurts. Put it to rest. 

3 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

You’re downplaying his ankle injury last year. Yes he missed only one game but it did require surgery to repair 

You have made this exact opposite argument for other qbs in previous years that were hurt but still played. You didn't seem to care when they were hurt needed surgery and still played. They still played. Now when it comes to Hurts your story completely flips. I wonder why that is?

34 minutes ago, justwinbaby said:

You have made this exact opposite argument for other qbs in previous years that were hurt but still played. You didn't seem to care when they were hurt needed surgery and still played. They still played. Now when it comes to Hurts your story completely flips. I wonder why that is?

Who? What QBs had injuries that needed surgeries? And where have I down played any of them?

 

And why do you continually point to other qb’s? Who cares about other qb’s, I care about the Eagles QB. 

20 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Who? What QBs had injuries that needed surgeries? And where have I down played any of them?

 

And why do you continually point to other qb’s? Who cares about other qb’s, I care about the Eagles QB. 

So do I. You're the one that has brought up other qbs to try and put Hurts down. Now you're oblivious because it doesn't fit your current argument? Why am I not surprised

2017 and 2022 the eagles went to the super bowl with a QB on a rookie contract

$50,000,000/yr for a one read running QB will cripple the eagles.... trade hurts for picks

 

49 minutes ago, justwinbaby said:

So do I. You're the one that has brought up other qbs to try and put Hurts down. Now you're oblivious because it doesn't fit your current argument? Why am I not surprised

I haven’t brought up other QBs at all. Are you drunk?

28 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I haven’t brought up other QBs at all. Are you drunk?

Nope. 

1 hour ago, greenskeeper said:

2017 and 2022 the eagles went to the super bowl with a QB on a rookie contract

$50,000,000/yr for a one read running QB will cripple the eagles.... trade hurts for picks

 

Cap increases by 20 million next year, Hurts has around 5 million hit next year without raise, so really it is a 25 million hit, plus increases in cap every year, that hit is not that impactful and you still have a young QB, Howie Roseman plays chess will many here can't spell checkers if you spotted them the check

4 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

We will see. The body can only absorb so many blows. Yes, he throws, that wasn't disparaging, but he runs more than most QB. He missed brief time two years in a row now and is only 24. If you think he can continue to take hits and maintain things at an elite level  until 34 we will strongly disagree. 

The Eagles ran the ball 165 times with Jalen Hurts. The Bills ran the ball with Josh Allen 124 times. That seems like a drastic difference; however, the Eagles ran the ball with Jalen 41 times last season on quarterback sneaks. So are we really counting those as legit runs, because in reality subtracting those numbers he’s now run it about 124 times. These are the type of deceptive snaps that can trick people. Tom Brady for example has several first down QB sneaks. How many quarterbacks can you name have been injured on a QB sneak? It’s really not a common thing, but the play is highly effective for the Eagles and that’s why they keep running it. Let’s also remember that there were many games where the Eagles were up from and Jalen was taking 1-3 knees to ice the game. Those also count as runs. Jalen averaged eleven attempts a game, but between 2-3 of those attempts were  QB sneak runs and between 1-3 of them were quarterback kneels. So on an 11 run average he’s closer to 8-9 actual runs. They can get out of what with their philosophy though especially when he’s nearing the twenties even with the first down runs. They have to find a happy medium, but considering how much he touches the ball I’d hardly call him injury prone. Also if he’s in his 30s I don care if he’s just a passer at that point in his career the Eagles should be grooming a replacement regardless, because guys playing into their 40s isn’t the norm. 

 

 

 

 

Just now, NOTW said:

 

 

NFL. No fun league. Not aesthetically pleasing, but I guess guys slipping all over the place and inconsistent officiating is?