2 hours ago, garingovt2000 said:

With Carolina making the big leap up what would it cost to acquire Matt Corral in a trade?

Not interested in a backup QB who gets carted off the field when he sprains his ankle 

13 hours ago, blindside said:

Yeah, I’ll stick with the QB who out scored Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl, and should have had a chance to win the game, with zero help from his defense. Especially the way this team drafts, you’ve got a lot of birds in the bush, but I’ll take the proven commodity.

At the end of the day, I probably would too. Earlier I was just saying that those arguing the other way are not as ‘far out in left left’ as some think.  I do think there are GMs that are beginning to consider other ways of roster building because of where QB prices are heading.  Yes the cap is increasing, but that doesn’t solve the issue.  Most teams simply are not as successful once they overpay for their QB. It makes GMs think about other ways…that’s really the point with this whole debate.

I don’t think I would pull the trigger on a trade because I think it would kill our locker room morale.  That’s the point that isn’t being discussed enough.  

I also think this other way of thinking (trading Hurts (and I fully admit to be one of those who has weighed the option), includes an unsaid assumption that last year was Jalen’s ceiling.  That he’s peaked.  He’s a rare breed in terms of character and his desire to improve.  I could be wrong, but he doesn’t strike me as a player that will ever become complacent.  I don’t see big money affecting that desire to improve.

Another thing that is assumed in that alternative option (trading him for a haul), is that the Eagles would again hit on those acquired picks or spend the saved money wisely.  Howie had a great offseason last year…just about all moves worked out.  But he isn’t exactly batting 1,000 overall.  Trading him for a haul is certainly not risk free…

10 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Trey Palmer. Beware, a body catcher like Quez.

The speed is on another level though. And he returns kicks and punts.

If he can last till late rounds, I become interested.

 

Body catchers don't have to stay body catchers.  It's unacceptable in round 1.  And it's not going to change after a guy has been in the league 3 years.

But for a 22 year old coming out of college with blazing speed going later in the draft...that's a perfectly acceptable thing to work on.

We all know a #3 WR isn't necessarily a slot WR...although they often trend together.  Quez isn't really a fit for the slot...and without looking at and stats or all-22...it seems that he often IS in the slot.  Unless I'm wrong there, that's a bit of square peg round hole.  AJ Brown is a pretty good slot fit and should probably spend more time there when Quez comes on the field, assuming Quez remains as the #3.

The offense could really use someone who is shifty.  Someone who is elusive underneath.  It's quite impressive that this is an elite offense despite lacking a true deep threat and a true elusive weapon underneath.  I don't think this is the draft to find that solution, but it would be incredible if they could get a WR who is shifty, gets deep and puts the defense on its heels, and has positional versatility at WR...and can return.

Asking for a lot, I know.  But if there is a WR with a shot to do those things in the mid rounds, then I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

56 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

We all know a #3 WR isn't necessarily a slot WR...although they often trend together.  Quez isn't really a fit for the slot...and without looking at and stats or all-22...it seems that he often IS in the slot.  Unless I'm wrong there, that's a bit of square peg round hole.  AJ Brown is a pretty good slot fit and should probably spend more time there when Quez comes on the field, assuming Quez remains as the #3.

The offense could really use someone who is shifty.  Someone who is elusive underneath.  It's quite impressive that this is an elite offense despite lacking a true deep threat and a true elusive weapon underneath.  I don't think this is the draft to find that solution, but it would be incredible if they could get a WR who is shifty, gets deep and puts the defense on its heels, and has positional versatility at WR...and can return.

Asking for a lot, I know.  But if there is a WR with a shot to do those things in the mid rounds, then I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

Zay Flowers is the only early round target who fits this mold. I’m not sure if he’d make it to #30, but there is an outside chance he does. He’d certainly give us that jitterbug element who can blow the top off or take a short pass to the house by making someone miss in the open field.

Late rounds, Derius Davis from TCU fits the mold. He doesn’t have the hands you ideally want out of a slot WR, but he’ll go somewhere around the 6th, maybe 7th, round. He’s definitely a weapon after the catch and has 4.3 speed.

But I’d offer some outside the box solutions as well. I’ve mentioned Gibbs. I don’t know just how good his hands will be at the NFL level. If I’m the eagles I bring him in for a workout, and every second I have him on the field he’s running WR routes from the slot. I want to see how he tracks the ball deep.

Along the same thought pattern, Achane and Mitchell are both lightening in a bottle with the ball in their hands. Both have a good track record of catching the ball in college. Both ran in the 4.3’s. Both have elite short area quickness. I figure you probably have to take Achane in the 2nd, Mitchell probably late 4th through early 6th?

They’re both RBs, both undersized, both probably can’t handle being a lead back but getting 10 total touches a game they’re going to do some damage. Same thing with them — I would love to work them out as slot receivers. Not that they’d play there full time, but if they can track the ball deep, they bring a really dynamic element.

9 hours ago, garingovt2000 said:

With Carolina making the big leap up what would it cost to acquire Matt Corral in a trade?

QBs are the highest paid position on the field, backup QBs even want 7-12+ mill a year. Why would they trade Corral on a dirt cheap contract for 3 more years? 

I asked Jason from OTC. All of Graham’s original void years stayed in place, no acceleration now with was about 9M. 

So once the numbers come in for the contract we either save anywhere from 1M to 7M on the cap for 2023. 

18 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

I asked Jason from OTC. All of Graham’s original void years stayed in place, no acceleration now with was about 9M. 

So once the numbers come in for the contract we either save anywhere from 1M to 7M on the cap for 2023. 

They never showed them accelerating though.

8 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

They never showed them accelerating though.

Spotrac updated and it looks like it lowered his cap hit from 9,663,000 to 8,163,000 but that’s with a full 6M hit included for this year as worst case scenario for 2023.

20 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

Spotrac updated and it looks like it lowered his cap hit from 9,663,000 to 8,163,000 but that’s with a full 6M hit included for this year as worst case scenario for 2023.

No. Spotrac is showing his old deal. It went down because they deleted his old base salary of $1.5M. They need to add his new deal on top of that. OTC is showing the same thing, they just didn’t delete his old base salary yet and add the new deal. 

On 3/10/2023 at 5:23 PM, TEW said:

 

Things didn’t go as planned. Missed out on Banks when I dropped to 19, Kancey is the consolation prize. Was hoping to get Forbes and Gibbs at 43 and 45, they were gone, so ended up with Stevenson and Felix.

After that things got better. Adebawore paired with Kancey at DT on third and long? Yes please! Dell and Davis improve the slot receiver and return game. Bergeron and Bradford give us two good prospects on the OL. Brown can start at safety. Bennett improves the CB depth.

NO RB! Grab a vet off the scrap heap. 

You draft like a day trader who quit his real job and learned all he knows about  diversifying from r/wallstreetbets. I like it. 11 out of 10 Howies. 

 

I had a dream I was GM if the Eagles and at pick 10 Jalen Carter and Devon Witherspoon were there and I couldn’t decide because Slay was traded and Bradberry left and we hadn’t added another corner so we really needed another CB. And the time was ticking so I came to the EMB and Elon Musk style started a poll that said who do you want us to take and I will abide by the votes of the poll.

And Jalen Carter won the poll 65/35 

And I ended up taking Devon Witherspoon anyway and everyone was pissed.

But Daniel Jeremiah said he loved the pick and his competitiveness and toughness were perfect for Philly.

13 hours ago, TEW said:

He didn’t outscore him. Fumble TDs count.

Not for the offense. 

1 hour ago, TEW said:

Zay Flowers is the only early round target who fits this mold. I’m not sure if he’d make it to #30, but there is an outside chance he does. He’d certainly give us that jitterbug element who can blow the top off or take a short pass to the house by making someone miss in the open field.

Late rounds, Derius Davis from TCU fits the mold. He doesn’t have the hands you ideally want out of a slot WR, but he’ll go somewhere around the 6th, maybe 7th, round. He’s definitely a weapon after the catch and has 4.3 speed.

But I’d offer some outside the box solutions as well. I’ve mentioned Gibbs. I don’t know just how good his hands will be at the NFL level. If I’m the eagles I bring him in for a workout, and every second I have him on the field he’s running WR routes from the slot. I want to see how he tracks the ball deep.

Along the same thought pattern, Achane and Mitchell are both lightening in a bottle with the ball in their hands. Both have a good track record of catching the ball in college. Both ran in the 4.3’s. Both have elite short area quickness. I figure you probably have to take Achane in the 2nd, Mitchell probably late 4th through early 6th?

They’re both RBs, both undersized, both probably can’t handle being a lead back but getting 10 total touches a game they’re going to do some damage. Same thing with them — I would love to work them out as slot receivers. Not that they’d play there full time, but if they can track the ball deep, they bring a really dynamic element.

Tank Dell is an alternative to Flowers - hands catcher, punt return experience, did well at the Senior Bowl (Eagles MO) and likely available in the 3rd.

12 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/35820389/nfl-free-agency-trade-buzz-latest-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-free-agent-sleepers

Hargrave is gone, but we'll get the chance to match CJGJ's best offer.

Also says we're likely to lose TJ Edwards.

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/35820389/nfl-free-agency-trade-buzz-latest-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-free-agent-sleepers

Hargrave is gone, but we'll get the chance to match CJGJ's best offer.

Also says we're likely to lose TJ Edwards.

That link is useless unless you have ESPN Insider....care to copy and paste? 

19 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

 

 

 

Well that's an unexpected positive rumor.

Maybe I’m just overly pessimistic but that CJGJ thing coming out the day before FA feels like PR spin. I think we’re gonna get a lot of that to counter losing a lot of players. 

21 minutes ago, RLC said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/35820389/nfl-free-agency-trade-buzz-latest-aaron-rodgers-lamar-jackson-free-agent-sleepers

Hargrave is gone, but we'll get the chance to match CJGJ's best offer.

Also says we're likely to lose TJ Edwards.

Glad to lose Edward's. Many better alternatives on the free agent market. 

Plus,  Dean and White is a better combo in today's NFL and White won be cheaper to keep.  I don't mind if both leave.  But either way,  letting Edward's go is the right choice. 

10 hours ago, jamiller said:

Im sick all over again.

 

Yeah, let's trade Hurts for whateverthef... 

that’s hard to watch 

12 hours ago, mattwill said:

Restructuring simply borrows from Peter to pay Paul.  There is in essence a new cap category thanks to those restructures … "accrued but not reported” signing bonus prorations. They don’t go away magically … they are like a balloon mortgage that has the balloon payment come due when the player and the team go their separate ways.

Bottom-line, the 20+% is still 20+%.

Right, but the player will not play a season with a 20+% cap hit nor will the dead money once they eventually get cut/traded because they can’t kick the can any further. They can spread the money out enough where that doesn’t happen. $50 million this season is worth a lot more than next season and the following seasons. 

GMs know this, they know they can’t pay a single player so much it hinders the rest of the team. The whole premise is about drafting a QB every 3-4 years so you always have one on a rookie contract to compete. The gigantic flaw in that logic is assuming you can draft a decent QB every 3-4 years. If it were easy, you wouldn’t have teams that have spent decades even looking for a decent one. Even if you have the top pick in the draft. There are many more examples of top pick QBs busting rather than being successful.

If you find a good QB, you keep them and draft well to build around them. If your GM can’t do that, they will be gone and a new regime will start the cycle all over again. There’s plenty of examples of QBs making it to the Super Bowl on rookie contracts and making it back again on a new more expensive contract. 
 

 

 

3 hours ago, McMVP said:

At the end of the day, I probably would too. Earlier I was just saying that those arguing the other way are not as ‘far out in left left’ as some think.  I do think there are GMs that are beginning to consider other ways of roster building because of where QB prices are heading.  Yes the cap is increasing, but that doesn’t solve the issue.  Most teams simply are not as successful once they overpay for their QB. It makes GMs think about other ways…that’s really the point with this whole debate.

I don’t think I would pull the trigger on a trade because I think it would kill our locker room morale.  That’s the point that isn’t being discussed enough.  

I also think this other way of thinking (trading Hurts (and I fully admit to be one of those who has weighed the option), includes an unsaid assumption that last year was Jalen’s ceiling.  That he’s peaked.  He’s a rare breed in terms of character and his desire to improve.  I could be wrong, but he doesn’t strike me as a player that will ever become complacent.  I don’t see big money affecting that desire to improve.

Another thing that is assumed in that alternative option (trading him for a haul), is that the Eagles would again hit on those acquired picks or spend the saved money wisely.  Howie had a great offseason last year…just about all moves worked out.  But he isn’t exactly batting 1,000 overall.  Trading him for a haul is certainly not risk free…

I’ll state right upfront that the Eagles will give Hurts an extension at the current market rate of $47-49M.  I don’t think there’s much doubt about that.  They’re likely trying to get the contract done before Herbert gets his extension, because of the risk of Herbert setting a higher price.

The notion of roster building to keep the roster at its peak while circulating through QBs on rookie deals is logical.  Keeping a QB on a rookie deal indefinitely saves about $45M per year in the current market.  The most important question IMO is this:

How irreplaceable is Jalen Hurts?  If the Eagles roster was exactly the same in 2022, only the QB was substituted for another QB on a rookie deal, how many games does the team win?  Was the 14-3 record a product of what Jalen Hurts brings, or could the Eagles have gone 14-3 with Burrow, Herbert, Tua, or Jordan Love?  Keep in mind, the weapons are still the same — AJ Brown, Smith, Goedert, Sanders, the OL, etc.

An even better question might be if you were to bring in another QB in 2023 how steep is the drop off?  

3 hours ago, eagle45 said:

We all know a #3 WR isn't necessarily a slot WR...although they often trend together.  Quez isn't really a fit for the slot...and without looking at and stats or all-22...it seems that he often IS in the slot.  Unless I'm wrong there, that's a bit of square peg round hole.  AJ Brown is a pretty good slot fit and should probably spend more time there when Quez comes on the field, assuming Quez remains as the #3.

The offense could really use someone who is shifty.  Someone who is elusive underneath.  It's quite impressive that this is an elite offense despite lacking a true deep threat and a true elusive weapon underneath.  I don't think this is the draft to find that solution, but it would be incredible if they could get a WR who is shifty, gets deep and puts the defense on its heels, and has positional versatility at WR...and can return.

Asking for a lot, I know.  But if there is a WR with a shot to do those things in the mid rounds, then I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

Tank Dell?