1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

How is that comparable?  What in the world is the benefit of trading 1st round licks for 2nd round picks?  Why the hell would anyone do that?

Plus my post went completely over your head.  The cap is so easily manipulated by pushing dead cap into future years and "kicking the can down the road".   Even after Howie the next GM can easily continue to do this.  There is no end date here where it must all come to a head.  Time continues go go on, they can just keep kicking it forward like Howie does.

The problem will be if the dead money accumulates at a much faster rate than the rate of cap increase.

Year to year, that may not be a big deal. You can offset that to a degree by having a ton of draft picks who will be on cheaper deals, like we are doing between this draft and next draft. Tons of premium (top 3 rounds) picks. Should be a bunch of young, cheap talent and hopefully slow the need for being very active in free agency.

But year after year after year cant be allowed to happen. Because eventually even the future cap will run out.

4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Minshew looked a lot worse because of Quez. Most of his INTs really werent bad passes. it was just the WR being horrible.

However, this offense needs a running QB.

Would have loved PJ Walker but he got snatched up quick.  Mariota is meh.  I hope he has the right attitude.  

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

How can we afford all this?

Weren't we in dead cap hell?

This is a bit of a strawman. We absolutely do have some constraints related to the cap. We played very well for an entire season that ended when came up short by only 3 pts in the Super Bowl, so we should be doing our best to retain all of our best players, yet we've lost quite a few starters already. Why did we lose them, if not because we couldn't afford them?

Hargrave, Sanders, Epps, Edwards are not going to be easily replaced. Penny came on a very cheap deal, and may be decently effective as a runner, but he's not in the same conversation as Sanders. Dean might be able to fill in for Edwards, but it's not exactly a foregone conclusion based on what little we saw of him. Don't even talk to me about Davis replacing Hargrave. 

Fact remains, we all knew the cap related issues would significantly hinder our ability to retain talent that was primarily responsible for how well we performed as a team last season, and so far, that's bearing out to be true.

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

The problem will be if the dead money accumulates at a much faster rate than the rate of cap increase.

Year to year, that may not be a big deal. You can offset that to a degree by having a ton of draft picks who will be on cheaper deals, like we are doing between this draft and next draft. Tons of premium (top 3 rounds) picks. Should be a bunch of young, cheap talent and hopefully slow the need for being very active in free agency.

But year after year after year cant be allowed to happen. Because eventually even the future cap will run out.

 

 

Only have to worry about that if the NFL starts losing popularity but that isn't the case and the TV deals keep going up and up so as a result the cap keeps going up and up.

TIL today: Josh Lambo (the kicker who got Urban Meyer canned in JAX) was an MLS goalie BEFORE he became an NFL Kicker. Pretty cool career.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/17/nfl-kicker-and-soccer-player-josh-lambo-announces-retirement-from-both-sports/

 

Just now, bpac55 said:

Would have loved PJ Walker but he got snatched up quick.  Mariota is meh.  I hope he has the right attitude.  

Have to assume that signing as a backup, he knows his role. Moreso, signign as a backup behind an MVP finalist- he has to know he isnt going to play well and hold on to a job. Hes going back to the bench regardless. He has to know that.

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

Hargrave, Sanders, Epps, Edwards are not going to be easily replaced.

People are getting way too sentimental about Sanders, Epps and Edwards.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

This is a bit of a strawman. We absolutely do have some constraints related to the cap. We came up short by 3 pts in the Super Bowl, so we should be doing our best to retain all of our best players, yet we've lost quite a few starters already. Why did we lose them, if not because we couldn't afford them?

Hargrave, Sanders, Epps, Edwards are not going to be easily replaced. Penny came on a very cheap deal, and may be decently effective as a runner, but he's not in the same conversation as Sanders. Dean might be able to fill in for Edwards, but it's not exactly a foregone conclusion based on what little we saw of him. Don't even talk to me about Davis replacing Hargrave. 

Fact remains, we all knew the cap related issues would significantly hinder our ability to retain talent that was primarily responsible for how well we performed as a team last season, and so far, that's bearing out to be true.

Epps and Edwards are JAGs. Sanders is definitely a top 15 back in the league...challenge to replace, sure. But not an insurmountable one by any means. No way they're relying solely on Penny to make up that production. I still fully expect a back in R3-6, or another cut veteran.

Hargrave, yes...definitely tough to replace. But he sucked against the run, and I believe Milton Williams is going to have a really nice year under Desai. I fully expect a DT in the draft as well.

3 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

People are getting way too sentimental about Sanders, Epps and Edwards.

Totally, it's a wonder they even had starting jobs at all. 

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

This is a bit of a strawman. We absolutely do have some constraints related to the cap. We came up short by 3 pts in the Super Bowl, so we should be doing our best to retain all of our best players, yet we've lost quite a few starters already. Why did we lose them, if not because we couldn't afford them?

Hargrave, Sanders, Epps, Edwards are not going to be easily replaced. Penny came on a very cheap deal, and may be decently effective as a runner, but he's not in the same conversation as Sanders. Dean might be able to fill in for Edwards, but it's not exactly a foregone conclusion based on what little we saw of him. Don't even talk to me about Davis replacing Hargrave. 

Fact remains, we all knew the cap related issues would significantly hinder our ability to retain talent that was primarily responsible for how well we performed as a team last season, and so far, that's bearing out to be true.

Howie was not afraid to add dead cap. But he was afraid to give a gigantic deal to a DT who is about to be on the wrong side of 30. 

LB and RB are not valued very high. I dont think Penny is the only move that will be made there. But they are certainly filling the role cheaper than what Sanders got from Carolina.

Edwards was meh. Overrated by eagles fans. White is also replaceable. 

Epps is replacement level as well.

 

They signed the old guys who had major leadership qualities, and took slightly less to stay. More importantly accepted short term deals.

They let the old guy who got big money on a long term deal go. Thats not cap contrained. Thats cap smart.

They let the guys at devalued positions go. Theyll replace them with equal or better talent, for less money. Again, smart.

 

They havent lost anyone because they couldnt afford them.

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Howie isn’t a cap genius. He’s simply pushing money into the future, when the cap goes up and theoretically is less valuable than today’s cap space. It’s smart, but we are far from being in good cap shape. 

Honestly, Lurie deserves a ton of credit too. He basically gave his kid his credit card and told him have fun. There's a lot of cash poor teams or just cheap owners that Howie would never be able to do this on a lot of teams. 

All it took was one season for you guys to forget what garbage LBs looked like. If White signs with the Cards, and Dean doesn't quite live up the expectations, maybe what you see next year might jog your memory.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

This is a bit of a strawman. We absolutely do have some constraints related to the cap. We played very well for an entire season that ended when came up short by only 3 pts in the Super Bowl, so we should be doing our best to retain all of our best players, yet we've lost quite a few starters already. Why did we lose them, if not because we couldn't afford them?

Hargrave, Sanders, Epps, Edwards are not going to be easily replaced. Penny came on a very cheap deal, and may be decently effective as a runner, but he's not in the same conversation as Sanders. Dean might be able to fill in for Edwards, but it's not exactly a foregone conclusion based on what little we saw of him. Don't even talk to me about Davis replacing Hargrave. 

Fact remains, we all knew the cap related issues would significantly hinder our ability to retain talent that was primarily responsible for how well we performed as a team last season, and so far, that's bearing out to be true.

Why did we lose them, if not because we couldn't afford them? 

Hargrave was just too expensive.

But Epps, Edwards, Sanders, White aren't at the positions this team prioritizes.  So it may be more of where they chose to invest...

OL (Kelce), DL (Graham, Cox), CB (Slay, Bradberry, Greedy), QB (Mariota) - all priority positions for this franchise.

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

They havent lost anyone because they couldnt afford them.

 

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

All it took was one season for you guys to forget what garbage LBs looked like. If White signs with the Cards, and Dean doesn't quite live up the expectations, maybe what you see next year might jog your memory.

You have to be ok with a draft pick ascending in to a starting role sometimes.

Yeah, maybe it doesnt work out. But that doesnt mean it was the wrong move. Hes not some nobody with a small sample size that people are blindly hoping to be the man. He was a highly touted college prospect with the talent to do this, and I think everyone expected him to play sooner than later.

 

They can go to the free agent market right now and find a White replacement with ease. Elandon Roberts or Drue Tranquill will be very affordable. Bobby Wagner is still out there.

Theres no reason to expect, at this moment, that we are heading in to the season with crappy LBs again.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Why did we lose them, if not because we couldn't afford them? 

Hargrave was just too expensive.

But Epps, Edwards, Sanders, White aren't at the positions this team prioritizes.  So it may be more of where they chose to invest...

OL (Kelce), DL (Graham, Cox), CB (Slay, Bradberry, Greedy), QB (Mariota) - all priority positions for this franchise.

We don't prioritize those players at those positions. Got it. Curious why we even brought them here in the first place and then kept them in those roles after their mediocre performances. Must've been on a lark.

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I like the Mariota signing. Not any of our first choice, but out of whats left, its solid.

I like the idea that the offense does not need to change when the backup QB steps in. Last year they tried not to change it, but no one respected the option of Minshew using his legs, and the offense just didnt work as well. Hell, even when Hurts played that one game where he couldnt/wouldnt use his legs the offense wasnt the same.

Now, theoretically, the concepts can work just as well regardless of which QB is playing.

On top of this, I love the idea of Dorian Thompson-Robinson as QB3. Now all 3 can use their legs. Thompson-Robinson has a great arm, and would have a year to develop in to an adequate backup before Mariota's contract is allowed to expire.

Funny that with Mariota, and DTR, Chip freakin Kelly can be operating Philly's QB factory.

Mariota is probably a slight upgrade over Minshew in terms of keeping the offense the same.  He's a competent short to intermediate passer with accuracy issues.  I think Sirianni and Johnson will be able to win with him.  Dorian Thompson-Robinson would be a good UDFA or late round pick.  I also think Hendon Hooker would be a good potential pick even with his age.  

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

We don't prioritize those players at those positions. Got it. Curious why we even brought them here in the first place and then kept them in those roles after their mediocre performances. Must've been on a lark.

Edwards was a UDFA, and White was a super cheap 1 year free agent deal.

You are full of strawmen today (and every day).

He was correct in saying we dont prioritize those positions. That doesnt mean we dont still give someone the starting job...

 

Projected 2023 Depth Chart – Free Agency

Offense (24)
QB(2): Hurts, Mariota
RB(3): Gainwell, Penny, Scott
TE(3): Goedert, Stoll, Calcaterra
WR(6): Brown, Smith, Watkins, Covey, ???, ???
OL(10) Mailata, Dickerson, Kelce, Jurgens, Johnson
Opeta, Driscoll, Toth, ????, ????

Defense (26)
DE(4): Sweat, Barnett, Graham, Robinson
DT(5): Davis, Cox, Williams, Tuipulotu, ???,
Stack LB(4): Dean, Ellis, Bradley, ????
Rush LB(3): Reddick, P. Johnson, K. Johnson
S(4): Blankenship, Scott, Wallace, ????
CB(6): Slay, Maddox, Bradberry, McPhearson, Jobe, ???

Specialists (3)
K: Elliott
P: Siposs
LS: Lovato

---

Some pretty clear lines in terms what the draft will bring.

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

Mariota is probably a slight upgrade over Minshew in terms of keeping the offense the same.  He's a competent short to intermediate passer with accuracy issues.  I think Sirianni and Johnson will be able to win with him.  Dorian Thompson-Robinson would be a good UDFA or late round pick.  I also think Hendon Hooker would be a good potential pick even with his age.  

Im a Hooker fan. But I dont think we are going QB that early.

Actually, now that theyve signed Mariota, a backup theyre likely comfortable with, Id even say Im sure they wont draft a QB that early.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

We don't prioritize those players at those positions. Got it. Curious why we even brought them here in the first place and then kept them in those roles after their mediocre performances. Must've been on a lark.

The only true loss they'll feel this year is Hargrave. Do you really think Epps to Blankenship or Edwards to Dean are some type of huge drop offs? Epps got burnt more than Silicon Valley Bank depositors.

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

You have to be ok with a draft pick ascending in to a starting role sometimes.

Yeah, maybe it doesnt work out. But that doesnt mean it was the wrong move. Hes not some nobody with a small sample size that people are blindly hoping to be the man. He was a highly touted college prospect with the talent to do this, and I think everyone expected him to play sooner than later.

 

They can go to the free agent market right now and find a White replacement with ease. Elandon Roberts or Drue Tranquill will be very affordable. Bobby Wagner is still out there.

Theres no reason to expect, at this moment, that we are heading in to the season with crappy LBs again.

 

 

Roberts signed with the Steelers who cut Myles Jack.

Just now, bpac55 said:

Roberts signed with the Steelers who cut Myles Jack.

those a-holes. 

4 minutes ago, RLC said:

Projected 2023 Depth Chart – Free Agency

Offense (24)
QB(2): Hurts, Mariota
RB(3): Gainwell, Penny, Scott
TE(3): Goedert, Stoll, Calcaterra
WR(6): Brown, Smith, Watkins, Covey, ???, ???
OL(10) Mailata, Dickerson, Kelce, Jurgens, Johnson
Opeta, Driscoll, Toth, ????, ????

Defense (26)
DE(4): Sweat, Barnett, Graham, Robinson
DT(5): Davis, Cox, Williams, Tuipulotu, ???,
Stack LB(4): Dean, Ellis, Bradley, ????
Rush LB(3): Reddick, P. Johnson, K. Johnson
S(4): Blankenship, Scott, Wallace, ????
CB(6): Slay, Maddox, Bradberry, McPhearson, Jobe, ???

Specialists (3)
K: Elliott
P: Siposs
LS: Lovato

---

Some pretty clear lines in terms what the draft will bring.

 

This is why I see Adebawore at 30 because he gives you depth at DT and DE

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Howie isn’t a cap genius. He’s simply pushing money into the future, when the cap goes up and theoretically is less valuable than today’s cap space. It’s smart, but we are far from being in good cap shape. 

The salary cap is like the Social Security of the NFL.

Everyone kind of knows its a giant ponzi scheme that will never stop because half the league wouldn't be able to field a team if they ever enforced it the way it should be enforced