30 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Putting aside the draft value argument, assuming both players are guaranteed to be pro bowl quality, what’s more valuable to wins and losses: running back or guard?

Guard by a good margin, for a number of reasons. Primarily, you can’t think of it as just talent vs talent, or just positional value vs positional value, but also realistic replacement opportunities. We can replace almost everything Miles did for us in free agency for a couple million $. There are still talented RBs right now in FA who don’t have a job. On top of that, it’s entirely possibly matured Gainwell and potentially healthy Penny outplay Miles.

Are we getting decent replacement guard play in Dickerson’s spot for anything under 8m$ AAV? 

Then you can factor in the fact that no RB no matter how talented is getting 350 touches in our offense. We RB by committee, and Jalen is a significant part of our rushing offense as well. So whatever we do at RB will be for a situational player. Bijan could storm out of the gate at 5 ypc, but at Miles’ 2022 carries that’s still only 1250 yards in 17 games. We can get close to that by spreading the wealth to the guys behind him while bringing in a 3rd round talent.

This is also an important aspect of it:

 

It is considered the 22nd most important position on offense/defense. I’d actually argue TE is 22nd, but the knock on RB is none are full time players, whereas a TE can play 45+ snaps depending on the team’s formation tendencies. But Really think about what that means: a DE or a OG option at 10 is almost twice as valuable as a RB.   In the first round in general, that fifth year option is twice as useful at those positions. It’s twice as cheap to find a FA RB to fill that open spot, making the rookie contract on an Olineman  twice as good for the books.

31 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Putting aside the draft value argument, assuming both players are guaranteed to be pro bowl quality, what’s more valuable to wins and losses: running back or guard?

Guard, isn’t remotely close. 
 

And if a team or two is willing to be stupid and pass on Will Anderson, Howie better get his ass up there and get him.

If Howie ends up with Will Fing Anderson, a guy I’ve been drooling over for a couple years now and was rooting for the Saints to lose every Sunday for so we could get him… if Howie gets him starting the draft with the 10th pick I swear to god I’ll buy an Eagles jersey and get Roseman on the back and wear it every Sunday 

55 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Probably could’ve used a better photo lol

 

Kind of looks like JJ Reddick

25 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Guard by a good margin, for a number of reasons. Primarily, you can’t think of it as just talent vs talent, or just positional value vs positional value, but also realistic replacement opportunities. We can replace almost everything Miles did for us in free agency for a couple million $. There are still talented RBs right now in FA who don’t have a job. On top of that, it’s entirely possibly matured Gainwell and potentially healthy Penny outplay Miles.

Are we getting decent replacement guard play in Dickerson’s spot for anything under 8m$ AAV? 

Then you can factor in the fact that no RB no matter how talented is getting 350 touches in our offense. We RB by committee, and Jalen is a significant part of our rushing offense as well. So whatever we do at RB will be for a situational player. Bijan could storm out of the gate at 5 ypc, but at Miles’ 2022 carries that’s still only 1250 yards in 17 games. We can get close to that by spreading the wealth to the guys behind him while bringing in a 3rd round talent.

This is also an important aspect of it:

 

It is considered the 22nd most important position on offense/defense. I’d actually argue TE is 22nd, but the knock on RB is none are full time players, whereas a TE can play 45+ snaps depending on the team’s formation tendencies. But Really think about what that means: a DE or a OG option at 10 is almost twice as valuable as a RB.   In the first round in general, that fifth year option is twice as useful at those positions. It’s twice as cheap to find a FA RB to fill that open spot, making the rookie contract on an Olineman  twice as good for the books.

In a broader context of contractual value, which is interdependent on durability if we're looking at fifth year options, then I agree a guard is more valuable. But the question was simply about which player contributes more to the offense to help put notches in the win column. Maybe the context was intended to be broader as you're inferring, and I interpreted it too narrowly, but if we're just talking about a single season hypothetically (on any team, not just ours), I think the RB contributes more to an offense.

14 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Kind of looks like JJ Reddick

Then there's hope for him to turn it around and be a cool guy one day.

18 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Then there's hope for him to turn it around and be a cool guy one day.

 

 

Not a good guy anymore.  He voted Giannis over Embiid for MVP.  

3 hours ago, TEW said:

Of course Bijan projects to be an upgrade. The question is how much of an upgrade he is? If over the course of the season he gets you an extra 0.5 YPC X 300 carries for 150 yards, an extra 3 TDs, and 1 extra win, is that worth it?

Also, funny you bring up TFLs. Frankly I think Bijan may increase the number of TFLs, at least in his first year. He dances behind the LOS a lot…

Would he behind our OL?  I doubt it. I highly doubt the difference will be .5 yds and if one player causes a delta of a win that’s significant. 

47 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

7.8 out of 10 Howies.  Howie gets drunk and lets TATE make the first pick.  I think Bijan at 19 is OK but not my favorite. I like the other picks. I would like them to add more at OT earlier in the draft but Witt would be a very good developmental pick.  He could certainly end up being the best value pick in your draft.  It's a solid B-. 

45 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Guard, isn’t remotely close. 
 

And if a team or two is willing to be stupid and pass on Will Anderson, Howie better get his ass up there and get him.

If Howie ends up with Will Fing Anderson, a guy I’ve been drooling over for a couple years now and was rooting for the Saints to lose every Sunday for so we could get him… if Howie gets him starting the draft with the 10th pick I swear to god I’ll buy an Eagles jersey and get Roseman on the back and wear it every Sunday 

So you're going to let Roseman ride you into the stadium every game? 

When do we address LB in this draft?  I like Dean but unproven and Morrow is ho hum

4 hours ago, NCiggles said:

Bijan would not improve the offense.  You don't need elite RB play to have an elite offense.  

Didn’t bother reading past this. Read about sufficient and necessary conditions.  Your logic is faulty. So…it’s a bad thing to lead the league in rushing?  Huh? 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Putting aside the draft value argument, assuming both players are guaranteed to be pro bowl quality, what’s more valuable to wins and losses: running back or guard?

Guard. I’d rather have Brandon brooks than lesean mccoy (not cause of personality or off the field)

13 minutes ago, Allhaildawk said:

Would he behind our OL?  I doubt it. I highly doubt the difference will be .5 yds and if one player causes a delta of a win that’s significant. 

Unless someone wants to argue Bijan has a clutch bone and would have helped will the Eagles past the Chiefs, where Sanders crumbled .... but 1998 was the last time a RB won Super Bowl MVP, so I don't see that logic holding up.

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Unless someone wants to argue Bijan has a clutch bone and would have helped will the Eagles past the Chiefs, where Sanders crumbled .... but 1998 was the last time a RB won Super Bowl MVP, so I don't see that logic holding up.

Bijan is better than sanders so he would’ve likely been an upgrade to sanders. However I’d argue there’s likely a few backs in this draft that can likely turn out be a better player than sanders by the end of their tenure with the eagles. Eagles don’t need a saquon, zeke or cmc to have great success behind this oline. Frankly i rather stockpile great/good oline for now and the future and in a deep draft class take a back in round 2-3 who can give me good production. 

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

In a broader context of contractual value, which is interdependent on durability if we're looking at fifth year options, then I agree a guard is more valuable. But the question was simply about which player contributes more to the offense to help put notches in the win column. Maybe the context was intended to be broader as you're inferring, and I interpreted it too narrowly, but if we're just talking about a single season hypothetically (on any team, not just ours), I think the RB contributes more to an offense.

But even ignoring financial impact, just reliability of available players, the point of guard vs replacement or rb vs replacement then becomes primary. Not just which position is more valuable, but which individual person is. It is far easier to replace pro bowl caliber RB play than pro bowl caliber guard play. 
 

It’s not the overall talent we’re getting at 10, but the improvement over what could be had otherwise.

21 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

When do we address LB in this draft?  I like Dean but unproven and Morrow is ho hum

Sometime between Day 3 and Day 4 when they announce the UDFA signings.

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

Sometime between Day 3 and Day 4 when they announce the UDFA signings.

We're fine there

3 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

But the point of guard vs replacement or rb vs replacement then becomes primary. Not just which position is more valuable, but which individual person is. It is far easier to replace pro bowl caliber RB play from 1 person than pro bowl caliber guard play. 
 

It’s not the overall talent we’re getting at 10, but the improvement over what could be had otherwise.

Yes. That’s exactly what I meant but I should have added that stipulation for clarity.

10 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

But the point of guard vs replacement or rb vs replacement then becomes primary. Not just which position is more valuable, but which individual person is. It is far easier to replace pro bowl caliber RB play from 1 person than pro bowl caliber guard play. 
 

It’s not the overall talent we’re getting at 10, but the improvement over what could be had otherwise.

The problem is everyone is assuming jurgens just plays well at guard. I trust stoutland but that doesn’t mean jurgens doesn’t get hurt or struggles. Even seumalo took to year 3 to get to where he could be a starter. I tend to think i rather be secure with a really good swing tackle and potential starter at RG because your oline has a weak link it’ll catch up to you. And our main backup right now is Driscoll who never stays healthy. 

again this is all on the hypothetical that stoutland loves one of those 3 OL 

12 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Bijan is better than sanders so he would’ve likely been an upgrade to sanders. However I’d argue there’s likely a few backs in this draft that can likely turn out be a better player than sanders by the end of their tenure with the eagles. Eagles don’t need a saquon, zeke or cmc to have great success behind this oline. Frankly i rather stockpile great/good oline for now and the future and in a deep draft class take a back in round 2-3 who can give me good production. 

Im just not seeing the OL talent this year. If we could go up to five for the next lane Johnson it’s a no brainer. We can’t. 

17 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Unless someone wants to argue Bijan has a clutch bone and would have helped will the Eagles past the Chiefs, where Sanders crumbled .... but 1998 was the last time a RB won Super Bowl MVP, so I don't see that logic holding up.

So… you admit that sanders "crumbling” contributed to the loss…but don’t see the virtue in adding a better back…. 
 

ok

2 minutes ago, Allhaildawk said:

Im just not seeing the OL talent this year. If we could go up to five for the next lane Johnson it’s a no brainer. We can’t. 

I don’t know how stoutland views skoronski, Paris or jones. If stoutland views any one of them as potential pro bowl caliber players at tackle but can also play guard I’m listening to stoutland and going that direction. I have a gut feeling stoutland is probably going to be really intrigued by one of those 3. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t know how stoutland views skoronski, Paris or jones. If stoutland views any one of them as potential pro bowl caliber players at tackle but can also play guard I’m listening to stoutland and going that direction. 

The OL guru coach who took a guy who never played a down of football and turned him into an elite LT is going to have faith in consensus first rounders. That can’t be the standard. 

2 minutes ago, Allhaildawk said:

The OL guru coach who took a guy who never played a down of football and turned him into an elite LT is going to have faith in consensus first rounders. That can’t be the standard. 

He also took a 4th overall pick and made him the best tackle in the league. we have also given him 3rd rounder in seumalo, 2nd in jurgens. So it’s not like the eagles haven’t given him talent from every round. It’s why if he loves one of those 3 at 10 and eagles have that player graded highly I’m fine with it. 

More than I even WANT bijan to happen, I just feel like it WILL happen. Feels like fates are aligning. 
 

An extra 1, that falls outside of the elite blue chips 

sanders walks

qb contract imminent- need cheap skill guys

OL is elite now, and likely will continue to be a strength, even outside of high draftee this year  

just feels like everything is towing in the same direction