3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Lol so what’s your excuse for JT Realmuto getting paid 23.1 mil per and over 100 mil doing what he is and Kyle Schwarber getting paid 19.8 mil making a producing even less than Turner and worse defensively? Because those two guys happen to be the two worst hitter on the entire team that consistently play. considering the fact they are in the middle of the lineup and consistently up with guys on base and have done next to Jack squat. Heck I’m guessing if Turner got moved to cleanup, his RBI numbers look much better than schwarber and realmuto.

So you know the Phillies were first in batting average heading into the game today. Thank you Turner, stott, bohm, castellanos and marsh. Guess who has the two worst averages on the team as every day starters? Kyle Schwarber and jt realmuto. So if you wanna **** about turner, you should really open your Fing mouth about the 2 other guys who’ve been far worse and also GETTING PAID TOO. 

You obsess about Turner but yet ignoring how damn awful schwarber and relamuto have been this year with RISP as Turner hitting over .300 and stott over .350 and on base for them every game. If schwarber and realmuto just hit .250 with RISP the Phillies likely have 2-3 more wins 

Here’s a cool fact for you, Carlos rodon hasn’t even pitch this year. So please explain to me how Carlos Rodon is going to help the Phillies starting the year when he’s not even available to pitch yet? Meanwhile, what are the reasons people were skeptical to give rent on the money was because I’m back to back years he had like 7 and 2 starts so many worried that he would stay healthy. Going forward once you paid him. It is an a good thing that when the season starts he’s not able to pitch in already out. So you know you’re a great plan of rental would it be Fing helping right now. They frankly would be even worse spot cause at least Turner is at least hitting the baseball and playing 

so you were gonna give Zach Eflin that type of money knowing that later in the year he’s gonna have any injury and miss two months? Yes that seems like a smart plant knowing Zach Eflin’s injury history to give him that type of money and assume he’s not gonna get hurt. Brilliant strategy really. Ashley’s problem has really never been on the mound. It’s staying healthy. If you’re gonna big on him staying healthy with his injury history then you are delusional.

 

I'm not blaming Turner for the start. My gripes with the signing are more about the bigger picture and when you don't properly allocate your money it has a ripple effect. It could've been used elsewhere.

He got a massive contract. 11 years 300 million. When you sign that kind of money it's going to limit what else Middleton is willing to spend money on. Schwarber simply doesn't have that kind of commitment. And we know he'll finish the season with 35+ HRs if healthy. He pretty much always does.

My issues with Turner were never about the player, it was about the money. I don't believe in paying that kind of money to guys who generally hit HR totals in the teens and had one season where they hit 100 RBIs. Philosophically I'm just against it. If you're going to throw that kinda mega contract at a player they need to be big-time run producers. Harpers, Machados, Judge, Trout, etc. For him to be worth that contract he's going to need to be driving in 25+ HRs and 90+ RBIs a year. And for the majority of his career he hasn't been that guy.

But yes, on the field Realmuto and Schwarber are more to blame than Turner. I'm not arguing that. But when you spend 300m on a dude who so far has 3 RBIs and zero HRs, you could get that kind of run production from Jean Segura. I think putting all that money into one guy who isn't a mega run producer hurt their ability to add depth up and down the roster. That's more the problem than the player himself. Although 3 RBIs and zero homers isn't cutting it.

28 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I'm not blaming Turner for the start. My gripes with the signing are more about the bigger picture and when you don't properly allocate your money it has a ripple effect. It could've been used elsewhere.

He got a massive contract. 11 years 300 million. When you sign that kind of money it's going to limit what else Middleton is willing to spend money on. Schwarber simply doesn't have that kind of commitment. And we know he'll finish the season with 35+ HRs if healthy. He pretty much always does.

My issues with Turner were never about the player, it was about the money. I don't believe in paying that kind of money to guys who generally hit HR totals in the teens and had one season where they hit 100 RBIs. Philosophically I'm just against it. If you're going to throw that kinda mega contract at a player they need to be big-time run producers. Harpers, Machados, Judge, Trout, etc. For him to be worth that contract he's going to need to be driving in 25+ HRs and 90+ RBIs a year. And for the majority of his career he hasn't been that guy.

But yes, on the field Realmuto and Schwarber are more to blame than Turner. I'm not arguing that. But when you spend 300m on a dude who so far has 3 RBIs and zero HRs, you could get that kind of run production from Jean Segura. I think putting all that money into one guy who isn't a mega run producer hurt their ability to add depth up and down the roster. That's more the problem than the player himself. Although 3 RBIs and zero homers isn't cutting it.

Your plan of using the money spent on Turner on Carlos rodon is worse than Trae Turner right now. Rodon got 27 mil per year like Turner. So you’d have had to beat that so he’s gonna get paid more than Turner over 5 years of the contract and already having injury concerns. Carlos rodon has a forearm injury and a back injury. he has yet to play on that contract. Which is the reason why people were skeptical to sign him. Then doubling down we should’ve paid eflin who’s perpetually hurt every year for months at a time is just as bad. The moves you were suggesting they should’ve made are likely worse long term and rodon is worse than what they are now.

Also turner’s defense is immensely better than segura.

so you brought up Trea Turner and he’s not the reason they suck but willing to bury the move ? If Bryce Harper was playing right now and they had him in the middle of the lineup where realmuto and schwarber is I am betting  the Phillies aren’t sitting five games below 500. Because unlike Schwarber and Jt who can’t Fing hit a baseball with runners in scoring position at the moment. With harper likely scoring more runs as stott and Turner have OBP around .400 and .350. and you are likely not saying anything 

The floundering of the Phillies rest squarely on nola and wheeler not being the pitchers they were last year, schwarber and realmuto having some of the worst numbers for 3-5 hitters in baseball with RISP and the bullpen being an epic disaster. The only guys playing well right now are stott, Turner, bohm, castellanos, Alvarado, sosa and marsh. Walker got paid to be a no. 4 pitcher behind wheeler, nola and Suarez and he’s pitched like that. His numbers are nearly identical to wheeler. Issue for the Phillies is so much less Turner and walker and guys who were here last year not being close to what they are earning   

so again heading in today’s game the Phillies had the number 1 batting average in the league. Do you know what they have? One of the worst averages of their 3-5 hitters batting with runners in scoring position. So if Realmuto and Schwarber, were doing their job with runners in scoring position (mostly stott and Turner) this team is likely closer to be scoring 5+ runs a game and no one is talking about the offense.

Edmundo sosa has been better than realmuto and schwarber. if that’s going to be the case i don’t care if they paid turner or rodon you aren’t winning crap 

 

2 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I’m still ticked off that they took Pumphrey ahead of Fournette, McCaffrey, Kamara, and Cook, all of whom were definitely available in the fourth round.

I just wish we could turn back the clock to the spring of 2017 and get a re-do. I’m sure things would work out better.

Point taken, but it WAS an infuriating pick. Pumphrey objectively had a 6th round grade on him pre-draft and the Eagles traded up for him in the 4th round, because Joe Douglas was infatuated with the idea he could be the next Sproles despite having zero KR or PR experience in college.  A truly terrible Eagles pick.

He’s an example of what concerns me about targeting Nolan Smith on the belief he’s a budding Hasson Reddick.

18 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Point taken, but it WAS an infuriating pick. Pumphrey objectively had a 6th round grade on him pre-draft and the Eagles traded up for him in the 4th round, because Joe Douglas was infatuated with the idea he could be the next Sproles despite having zero KR or PR experience in college.  A truly terrible Eagles pick.

He’s an example of what concerns me about targeting Nolan Smith on the belief he’s a budding Hasson Reddick.

in fairness they could’ve gotten Dalvin Cook. The eagles didn’t wanna trade up a couple spots to secure him (had a shoulder issue i believe heading into the draft and some off the field). They use their second rounder and allocated it to drafting Sidney Jones who they had a first round grade on before he had the Achilles injury.

They could’ve also taken Joe Mixon, where they took Sidney Jones. They could’ve also taken Alvin Kamara there, or moved up in the third round to get kamara if they really wanted him. They didn’t do it because they allocated their draft resources to other positions.

The likely logic behind it was considered a deep running back class where they thought they could wait on RB and still get a good running back in the 4-7 rounds. They waited and then decided to move up a to get donnell Pumphrey as more backs were off the board. the eagles thought he could be there next Darren Sproles. He wound up being horrendous and never even having a carry at the nfl level. 

30 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

in fairness they could’ve gotten Dalvin Cook. The eagles didn’t wanna trade up a couple spots to secure him (had a shoulder issue i believe heading into the draft and some off the field). They use their second rounder and allocated it to drafting Sidney Jones who they had a first round grade on before he had the Achilles injury.

They could’ve also taken Joe Mixon, where they took Sidney Jones. They could’ve also taken Alvin Kamara there, or moved up in the third round to get kamara if they really wanted him. They didn’t do it because they allocated their draft resources to other positions.

The likely logic behind it was considered a deep running back class where they thought they could wait on RB and still get a good running back in the 4-7 rounds. They waited and then decided to move up a to get donnell Pumphrey as more backs were off the board. the eagles thought he could be there next Darren Sproles. He wound up being horrendous and never even having a carry at the nfl level. 

The laughable part was when the media confronted Howie about not having taken a RB yet after Day 2 I remember him distinctly saying "we feel there are still some 3-down RBs available tomorrow” — and there were — but he goes and takes a 168 pound shrimp, with a ton of miles on him and without blazing speed, who was never going to translate to the NFL.

I don't understand the USFL playing in hub cities rather than having a home field for each team.  Having an XFL and USFL game on during the same time slot you can just tell that real home fans in the XFL make a big difference than the fans attending the USFL games.

Imagine the Philadelphia Stars playing at Subaru Field along the river.  I've been to Nova/UD there and it's a fantastic football venue.  Real silly to be the Philadelphia Stars but never be in Philly. 

2 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

That draft class was considered a deep running back class. They waited cause they thought they could address other positions and eventually still get a good RB in later rounds other than 1st and 2nd round. They didn’t need to be able to draft fournette or cmc to get a good back in that class to have success. Cmc and fournette they didn’t have a chance at. They did have opportunities to move up or take cook, Kamara, mixon but decided to wait and address other positions. 

I know. My (implied) point was that we are also in a year with two studs at the top of a class that is thought to be very deep. Charbonnet, bigsby, tucker, achane, miller, Abanikanda, spears etc. maybe those kids all hit but in my view it’s a year for the sure thing 

If all of these kids turn out except the one we pick in R4 and we go on to watch the rest establish themselves in the league it’ll be brutal 

Ill be interested to see Kollman's video on CB ranking. But this one is solid. Interesting name we havent discussed. Kahlef Hailaissie from Western Kentucky. And he had Brents in round 5.

 

Would they cut Cedrick Wilson?

Suck it haterzzz!! Roseman rulezz!!

G Rosenthal says so

Good assessment.  I’ve noted a few thoughts in bold below

9 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Also...I don't know that it will all work out.  In fact, much of it probably WON'T work out.  But under the circumstances and constraints, I like what Howie did this offseason.

1. He avoided over-extending himself and retaining our key, big name vets.  This will make the team worse in 2023, but better beyond. Although worse in 2023 is probably right, it isn’t a slam dunk.  Your #4 below could result in a better than expected 2023 as long as our injury luck isn’t horrible.  #4 will be very important at both LB and Safety.  A lot will also depend on the Draft.  The current depth issues on the O-line could be significantly mitigated by a Day One or Day Two pick.

2. He kept the pieces that would have created gaping holes by preserving the starting CBs.  (You can hide a deficiency at DT or S and fairly easily find serviceable parts...a liability at CB is hard to run away from...and it pigeon holes you in the draft).  Agreed 100%

3. He is trusting his process and his draft picks, rather than spending untold millions just to keep his premium picks on the bench (Davis, Williams, Dean, Jurgens).  This is important vis-a-vis any O-lineman selected in Day One or Day Two.  His value to the team as O-line depth will be significant, which leaves room for Jurgens to take the next step in his development as the RG starter.

4. He went for high upside players with his bargain bin shopping.  This is a very logical thing to do that most GMs just won't touch.  If you can only choose between a player that you KNOW isn't very good versus a player who might actually be great, but will probably either suck or get hurt...why not take a swing instead of bunting with the bases empty?  I believe this is really important.  Penny is a textbook case.  If he stays healthy and produces like he has in the past, what a shot in the arm.  The DBs fit the same mold.

5. Minority hires at OC/DC.  Draft picks.

I would have been in on Mecole Hardman or Parris Campbell...they bring speed to the offense and some playmaking agility underneath, 2 things that would be really nice to add.  But neither have found much success in the NFL so far, so I understand rolling with Watkins for a year and then (ideally) trying to draft those traits in 2024.

Just don't screw up the draft.

 

13 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Huh murray tore his acl in December and didn’t have surgery til January. He’s likely out til November if not even later. So if they drafted one of those kids they are likely playing right away. Even if they don’t murray is out til likely November and they are likely not very good anyway 

Rumors for months is they are trying to deal Hopkins as Hopkins also wants out. Still have Hollywood brown, ertz (when he returns) and James Conner there. 

I just feel like that’s a mess of a situation to put a young QB in to. The roster lacks talent and there’s a QB on a huge contract that will return to full health during the year.  But hey if they love one of those guys in this years draft then they should go for it.

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I just feel like that’s a mess of a situation to put a young QB in to. The roster lacks talent and there’s a QB on a huge contract that will return to full health during the year.  But hey if they love one of those guys in this years draft then they should go for it.

I wonder what the odds are of ARZ picking #1 next draft (more conventionally the o/u is 5.5). Might be a nice bet… has any other team been as transparently tanky.

12 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Point taken, but it WAS an infuriating pick. Pumphrey objectively had a 6th round grade on him pre-draft and the Eagles traded up for him in the 4th round, because Joe Douglas was infatuated with the idea he could be the next Sproles despite having zero KR or PR experience in college.  A truly terrible Eagles pick.

He’s an example of what concerns me about targeting Nolan Smith on the belief he’s a budding Hasson Reddick.

Howie just really is prone to terrible picks unfortunately. 

10 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Would they cut Cedrick Wilson?

I wouldn’t sign him based on that name change alone 

23 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Yes, I have.  My wife well knows that when she starts a conversation with "So”, I cringe.  

That said, Buck annoys me the same way.  He tends to yell at times.  He grates as does Troy.  There are good announcers that are women.  You are assuming the dislike is because she is a woman rather than her individual presentation but that wasn’t what was posted. The posters pointed to specific schtick that contributed to their dislike. Chris Collingsworth’s schtick of seeing DPI on every pass play yet being blind to OPI is annoying to me.  Golf announcers that nowadays are nowhere near the players whispering annoys me.  They are in a booth now.

I find Jim Nantz whispering at the Masters to be unbearable and offensive. Fortunately, I changed the channel. Quickly.

51 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

I wonder what the odds are of ARZ picking #1 next draft (more conventionally the o/u is 5.5). Might be a nice bet… has any other team been as transparently tanky.

If the Texans don’t take Young/Stroud they’ll be spending all year trying to appear not to be tanking for Caleb Williams. 

14 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

I think it's incredibly fair to acknowledge that Peyton was one of the best, period, to play the game...but he struggled a lot in the playoffs.  Denver's D carrying his corpse to that last SB win was the only reason he retired with a winning playoff record.

Judging a QB's post-season performance by using the team's win/loss record is stupid. There are far better metrics available.

10 hours ago, Cliftoma said:

Suck it haterzzz!! Roseman rulezz!!

G Rosenthal says so

Jerry Jones at 10 is kinda comical.  As a eagles fan I hope he lives forever though. 

8 minutes ago, eaglestime34 said:

Jerry Jones at 10 is kinda comical.  As a eagles fan I hope he lives forever though. 

His son really is the man behind the scenes I think and he does a pretty bang up job with the drafts. Not afraid to take LB's that are seen at a lesser value. I give him credit for taking Parsons, Howie would never meanwhile the guy is a generational player that majorly affects games. 

8 minutes ago, eaglestime34 said:

Jerry Jones at 10 is kinda comical.  As a eagles fan I hope he lives forever though. 

Gotta give the Jones family credit where credit is due.  They know how to find elite talent in the draft.  Now, when it comes to contracts and finding the right coaches, that's where they are piss poor.

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Gotta give the Jones family credit where credit is due.  They know how to find elite talent in the draft.  Now, when it comes to contracts and finding the right coaches, that's where they are piss poor.

That's kinda my point.  The overall body of work.   We all know how many playoff wins they have had in the last 25 years.  Not many 

Give the cowboys' drafting ability to this organization and we're on KC's level year in and year out. It's the one thing they do well consistently

17 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Gotta give the Jones family credit where credit is due.  They know how to find elite talent in the draft.  Now, when it comes to contracts and finding the right coaches, that's where they are piss poor.

I'd take their defensive coordinator in a second over ours. I did really like their o-coordinator so I do think they messed up by letting him walk. They do make some mistakes like all teams but I do envy a lot of their draft picks.