July 4, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: I honestly don't think it matters, if the candidate isn't Biden as I understand Dem party rules the convention becomes a free for all for the nomination, I think that's why the Dems are taking so long to make the call because they're absolutely terrified that a left wing outsider could turn up and disrupt the coronation with a couple of barnstorming speeches swaying delegates. Again they could've avoided this if they'd just listened to people saying 'you can't put an 81 year old with clear signs of decline up for 4 more years' about 8 months ago. The problem with your scenario is that it undermines the primary process completely. You can't campaign as the protector of democracy itself after pulling a stunt like that when the winner of the primaries has already come out and said he's not stepping down.
July 4, 20241 yr Realistically anything either party would have had to do to surefire win would have been to just nominate literally anyone else.
July 4, 20241 yr The way I read the DNC rules, if Biden voluntarily steps aside then the Party brass decide on a replacement candidate -- which would be Harris, based on being the running mate. Also, apparently there are the financial considerations where Biden's "war chest" would automatically pass onto Harris as the other candidate currently on the ticket, as per DNC rules. Personally, I think an open convention would be the best choice; maybe because that's what I've always been used to in Canada. Presumably, Biden would decline the nomination at the convention and free up his delegates. Sometimes the person dropping out throws his support behind another candidate and asks his delegates to vote that way; sometimes he chooses not to endorse, and the delegates are free to vote for whoever their next choice is. It makes for a great televised event -- and really shows the "politics" behind securing delegates in real time. I really doubt America would vote a black woman to be President. I think it's another generation before that happens; still way too many rural white rednecks for the math to work, IMO. If the choice is in fact only Biden or Harris, then Democrats have really F'ed up.
July 4, 20241 yr 29 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: The problem with your scenario is that it undermines the primary process completely. You can't campaign as the protector of democracy itself after pulling a stunt like that when the winner of the primaries has already come out and said he's not stepping down. The primary process is and always has been as flexible as it needed to be, in 2020 the Republicans had candidates other than Trump but a lot of states decided to save money and not hold primaries because they were sure Trump would win. We have a system of party processes that we pretend is set in stone as it's always run every time an unprecedented situation comes up, but the Democratic nomination process has always ended at the convention and the rules have always said that if the presumptive nominee steps down, the delegates are released from their obligation and it's a straight run off at the convention, the only real sticking points over the years have been the weighting of super delegate votes and when they come into play, and the super delegates are also the most solid argument that it was never really a democratic process in the first place. In 2016 there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if positions had been reversed and Bernie Sanders had gotten to the Dem convention with less than a 300 lead in Primary delegates the super delegates would absolutely have shafted him and given Hillary Clinton the nomination.
July 4, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, Bill said: Realistically anything either party would have had to do to surefire win would have been to just nominate literally anyone else.
July 4, 20241 yr 16 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: The primary process is and always has been as flexible as it needed to be, in 2020 the Republicans had candidates other than Trump but a lot of states decided to save money and not hold primaries because they were sure Trump would win. A ridiculous thing to even bring up for your argument because we already know the GOP doesn't give a F about democracy and is basically wiping their ass with the constitution at this point. Quote We have a system of party processes that we pretend is set in stone as it's always run every time an unprecedented situation comes up, but the Democratic nomination process has always ended at the convention and the rules have always said that if the presumptive nominee steps down, the delegates are released from their obligation and it's a straight run off at the convention, the only real sticking points over the years have been the weighting of super delegate votes and when they come into play, and the super delegates are also the most solid argument that it was never really a democratic process in the first place. In 2016 there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if positions had been reversed and Bernie Sanders had gotten to the Dem convention with less than a 300 lead in Primary delegates the super delegates would absolutely have shafted him and given Hillary Clinton the nomination. Again, this isn't helping your point, it's reinforcing mine. You can't claim to be the party of upholding democracy by pulling these sorts of stunts now. You completely lose that moral authority the minute it happens. Maybe you don't think that's a particularly strong selling point, and judging by the polling to date, you might not even be wrong. But it changes the very foundation of what the party has been campaigning on for the last 4 years, which is a huge risk in itself.
July 4, 20241 yr 31 minutes ago, Alphagrand said: If the choice is in fact only Biden or Harris, then Democrats have really F'ed up. That has been the choice since August of 2020 when he chose her to be the VP.
July 4, 20241 yr 48 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: The problem with your scenario is that it undermines the primary process completely. You can't campaign as the protector of democracy itself after pulling a stunt like that when the winner of the primaries has already come out and said he's not stepping down. I've been following politics for a long, long time. I've also been reading every scrap of news on this. There is only one scenario where it isn't Biden. He steps down. If he does that, he's pledging his delegates and War Chest to Harris. Which yes, he can totally do. IF...big IF, he does that, Harris has the support of the Obamas and the Clintons, and the democratic black caucus. So it's either Biden or Harris. Any other scenarios are fantasy island.
July 4, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, Gannan said: I've been following politics for a long, long time. I've also been reading every scrap of news on this. There is only one scenario where it isn't Biden. He steps down. If he does that, he's pledging his delegates and War Chest to Harris. Which yes, he can totally do. IF...big IF, he does that, Harris has the support of the Obamas and the Clintons, and the democratic black caucus. So it's either Biden or Harris. Any other scenarios are fantasy island. Yep, this is what I've been saying from the beginning. They're boxed in. Maybe Harris can beat Trump, maybe not. But it's definitely a big risk given how unlikeable she is.
July 4, 20241 yr 34 minutes ago, Alphagrand said: If the choice is in fact only Biden or Harris, then Democrats have really F'ed up. Recent polling and political science experts speculate she'd wipe the floor with Trump. In an election where abortion rights nation wide are at stake, I'm inclined to agree. Since Biden bombed the debate, her favorability and poll numbers have jumped 25 points. She's smart. She's a good debater. She's a fighter. Fun fact... she'd be the first gen X president.
July 4, 20241 yr Just now, we_gotta_believe said: Yep, this is what I've been saying from the beginning. They're boxed in. Maybe Harris can beat Trump, maybe not. But it's definitely a big risk given how unlikeable she is. I think she wins in a landslide.
July 4, 20241 yr Just now, Gannan said: I think she wins in a landslide. There are no landslides anymore. Not with how indoctrinated a huge chunk of the country is now.
July 4, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, Gannan said: Fun fact... she'd be the first gen X president. And if you’re not down with that, we got 2 words for ya
July 4, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, Gannan said: I've been following politics for a long, long time. I've also been reading every scrap of news on this. There is only one scenario where it isn't Biden. He steps down. If he does that, he's pledging his delegates and War Chest to Harris. Which yes, he can totally do. IF...big IF, he does that, Harris has the support of the Obamas and the Clintons, and the democratic black caucus. So it's either Biden or Harris. Any other scenarios are fantasy island. The DNC rules call for a small group to determine the candidate should Biden step down. The war chest is an issue if that person isn’t Harris. The delegates are fully free at that point. That’s what I’ve read in several left leaning outlets.
July 4, 20241 yr 29 minutes ago, Arthur Jackson said: CVONNNNN Talkin about politics CVON a VON a dingdongggg baron von CVON CVONNNNN Jesus built my Hot Rod
July 4, 20241 yr 28 minutes ago, Gannan said: Recent polling and political science experts speculate she'd wipe the floor with Trump. In an election where abortion rights nation wide are at stake, I'm inclined to agree. Since Biden bombed the debate, her favorability and poll numbers have jumped 25 points. She's smart. She's a good debater. She's a fighter. Fun fact... she'd be the first gen X president. Weren't you guys just talking about Biden being about to clean Trump's clock? I'm only asking because I happen to have a plurality of dirty clocks and a fairly gritty floor in my flat. Maybe I could just invite the POTUS and VP over and offer them a spot of Yorkshire Gold for a bit of tidying up.
July 4, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Alphagrand said: The way I read the DNC rules, if Biden voluntarily steps aside then the Party brass decide on a replacement candidate -- which would be Harris, based on being the running mate. Also, apparently there are the financial considerations where Biden's "war chest" would automatically pass onto Harris as the other candidate currently on the ticket, as per DNC rules. Personally, I think an open convention would be the best choice; maybe because that's what I've always been used to in Canada. Presumably, Biden would decline the nomination at the convention and free up his delegates. Sometimes the person dropping out throws his support behind another candidate and asks his delegates to vote that way; sometimes he chooses not to endorse, and the delegates are free to vote for whoever their next choice is. It makes for a great televised event -- and really shows the "politics" behind securing delegates in real time. I really doubt America would vote a black woman to be President. I think it's another generation before that happens; still way too many rural white rednecks for the math to work, IMO. If the choice is in fact only Biden or Harris, then Democrats have really F'ed up. They wouldn’t pick Harris if they had a choice in the matter. She’s an even worse candidate than Biden. America would absolutely vote for a black female president. People overrate the intrinsic qualities. Michelle Obama could win the presidency rught now if she wanted to. Harris would lose because she sucks. She has zero redeeming qualities. Even Trumps is kind of funny and people can argue he’s sane on topics like illegal immigration, taxes, etc or that he’s at least funny, Harris would be an even worse candidate than Hillary.
July 4, 20241 yr 34 minutes ago, Gannan said: I think she wins in a landslide. She will get obliterated. Worse than Biden or Clinton. Democrats need to wipe the slate clean and hope a couple young up-and-comers are more appealing than Trump.
July 4, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Jesus built my Hot Rod F'er haven't had that band in my head for two decades one post from you and that's my set for today
July 4, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, Arthur Jackson said: F'er haven't had that band in my head for two decades one post from you and that's my set for today
July 4, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, TEW said: Democrats need to wipe the slate clean ... perfect the blackboard in my home office also needs to be addressed this day is looking up
July 4, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Procus said: The preferred candidate of @VanHammersly "Wow this is smooth. What do you use on it, shea butter?"
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