Terrible.

With only 9 practices, this is the kind of content I'm preparing myself for from the Eagles

 

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

With only 9 practices, this is the kind of content I'm preparing myself for from the Eagles

 

Yep.  No one’s stock…from our perspective with what is know-able to fans and media…can go up, down, or sideways until scrubs start making plays in preseason games.

On 7/18/2023 at 7:55 PM, Iggles_Phan said:

I complained about Hoskins at first base last year... but he looks like a Gold Glover compared to Darick Hall.

🤦‍♂️

Speaking of crappy players what’s up with your boy Saquon Barkley? For a guy with " generational talent” he can’t even get a contract ext 😁

5 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Yep.  No one’s stock…from our perspective with what is know-able to fans and media…can go up, down, or sideways until scrubs start making plays in preseason games.

Its Ian Book and Tanner McGee season. 

I am not worked up about the number of TC practices.  Players don’t go to camp to get in shape anymore.  To keep the job, they train in the offseason.  I bet Hurts has been working with the receivers in the offseason. It isn’t like TC ends and the next day they play the game either.  TC is basically mostly just position drills and some player evaluation.  17+ game season is a long time.

I've been laying low for a while but looking forward to talking Eagles next week

4 hours ago, jwill2420 said:

Speaking of crappy players what’s up with your boy Saquon Barkley? For a guy with " generational talent” he can’t even get a contract ext 😁

I really think his best on the field success would be as situational back. Like we will most likely do with Swift. He can't handle 20 plus carries every week for an entire year. Even last year, by the time we faced the Giants Barkley was already bruised up and not running like he did earlier in the season. They pounded him against the Texans and even though he was very good in that game he did not seem to be the same thereafter. Even though he played every game he was definitely not the same towards the back end of the year.

I ask one thing from training camp:

Please don't let Siposs be the punter at the end of it.

15 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I will refrain from quibbling however I’d still like it if they had more and just had bottom of the roster guys take the reps to help them develop. 

The joint practices are more like game-situation and could have more values on players and team.  The long and hard practices are things in the past.  The players prefer to have lighter practices and less chances of injuries.

40 minutes ago, Penn7980 said:

The joint practices are more like game-situation and could have more values on players and team.  The long and hard practices are things in the past.  The players prefer to have lighter practices and less chances of injuries.

Depends on the coach/team. Andy Reid is on record saying he hates joint practices and will never do them again. They also have 19 practices scheduled along with 3 at the end closed to public. They seem to do pretty good. 

2 hours ago, BigEFly said:

I am not worked up about the number of TC practices.  Players don’t go to camp to get in shape anymore.  To keep the job, they train in the offseason.  I bet Hurts has been working with the receivers in the offseason. It isn’t like TC ends and the next day they play the game either.  TC is basically mostly just position drills and some player evaluation.  17+ game season is a long time.

These guys are professionals.  NFL players resent the physical and emotional grind of the longer season.

A spa training camp cuts down on wear/tear, not just noteworthy injuries.  It makes us a more attractive destination for free agents on shorter deals.

It’s been a bold change to camp and deserved/deserves attention.  2022 was a great year with a fast start.  2021 was a not so great year that saw the team play some of their better football early.  If they were having slow starts, I’d be banging the drum to see them have a real training camp, but they aren’t.

The media will beat this issue to death and will appeal to the macho nostalgia of fans who loved seeing big hits and hard nosed practices at Lehigh…because the media misses out on an entire news cycle on this.  Their customers used to check in for training camp and now it’s preseason, at best.

6 hours ago, jwill2420 said:

Speaking of crappy players what’s up with your boy Saquon Barkley? For a guy with " generational talent” he can’t even get a contract ext 😁

The agents of all these RBs are doing a hell of a job drumming up sympathy and attention in the media.  All that’s missing is a go fund me page.  
 

Teams don’t invest in the position because it’s not worth investing in.

NFL football has evolved beyond a ball carrier jumping head first into a pile ahead of him.  For the less frequent situations in which those plays are indicated, teams prefer to do it with expendable talent.

 

Not trusting Sirianni to get the guys ready at this point is absurd. We might start the year slow, but it will have nothing to do with a shorter TC. Starting with NE in week 1 is not ideal, because Belicheck will have a custom gameplan that we haven't prepared for.

29 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

The agents of all these RBs are doing a hell of a job drumming up sympathy and attention in the media.  All that’s missing is a go fund me page.  
 

Teams don’t invest in the position because it’s not worth investing in.

NFL football has evolved beyond a ball carrier jumping head first into a pile ahead of him.  For the less frequent situations in which those plays are indicated, teams prefer to do it with expendable talent.

 

Players pay is dictated first by positional value, and then by the talent of that player relative to others at his position.  The starting point in negotiations for certain positions is obviously higher than others, and then the talent dictates if the guy is going to get a new record high deal or not.

The RB issue is that the positional value is not just low, its ridiculously low.

The position may supposedly have plenty of talent who can produce statistics. But it is still a position that is vitally important.

The RB is another pass protector for the QB. They are another target, and often times an outlet for the QB. So they protect the QB in both ways.

The RB also touches the ball more than anyone else on offense, other than the QB. Even though RBs dont get 20+ carries in a game anymore. 12 carries is still almost always more than your top receiving target is touching it.

When you want to ice a game, you rely on an RB to pick up those tough 1st downs to keep the clock moving. So the RB can be vitally important to winning games. There may be a million people who can play RB in the NFL but we couldnt win the super bowl specifically without guys like Blount and Ajayi. So you cant always minimize a RBs impact by saying they are a dime a dozen.

They are also hit on just about every play so their sweat equity is up there with OL. And theyll pay for it physically and mentally after their careers more than most positions. So other than the performance side of things, and the Xs and Os side of things, theres the humane argument as well that tells you you should take care of these guys recognizing that they are willing to give up for you as the owner/GM, etc.

 

I dont care which individual RB is breaking barriers as the new highest paid at his position. And I dont care to see RBs as a top 3 paid position in the league or anything like that.

But I think they have a legit argument that they are worth more, positionally, than the NFL is willing to commit. 

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I really hate/love this game. 

Spoiler

I realized I should have used Foles in the Colts/Jags spot instead. I had absolutely no one I could think of there. 

EDIT: Trey Burton! F...

 

2 hours ago, pgcd3 said:

I've been laying low for a while but looking forward to talking Eagles next week

Same. It was a nice break from football, but it’s good to be (almost) back.

19 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Players pay is dictated first by positional value, and then by the talent of that player relative to others at his position.  The starting point in negotiations for certain positions is obviously higher than others, and then the talent dictates if the guy is going to get a new record high deal or not.

The RB issue is that the positional value is not just low, its ridiculously low.

The position may supposedly have plenty of talent who can produce statistics. But it is still a position that is vitally important.

The RB is another pass protector for the QB. They are another target, and often times an outlet for the QB. So they protect the QB in both ways.

The RB also touches the ball more than anyone else on offense, other than the QB. Even though RBs dont get 20+ carries in a game anymore. 12 carries is still almost always more than your top receiving target is touching it.

When you want to ice a game, you rely on an RB to pick up those tough 1st downs to keep the clock moving. So the RB can be vitally important to winning games. There may be a million people who can play RB in the NFL but we couldnt win the super bowl specifically without guys like Blount and Ajayi. So you cant always minimize a RBs impact by saying they are a dime a dozen.

They are also hit on just about every play so their sweat equity is up there with OL. And theyll pay for it physically and mentally after their careers more than most positions. So other than the performance side of things, and the Xs and Os side of things, theres the humane argument as well that tells you you should take care of these guys recognizing that they are willing to give up for you as the owner/GM, etc.

 

I dont care which individual RB is breaking barriers as the new highest paid at his position. And I dont care to see RBs as a top 3 paid position in the league or anything like that.

But I think they have a legit argument that they are worth more, positionally, than the NFL is willing to commit. 

Kickers lead the NFL in scoring almost every season and within those seasons, almost every team's kicker is the team's leading scorer. The position isn't "platooned" with depth, meaning most teams only have 1 kicker rostered. Yet, the highest paid K in the NFL was Tucker at $6M. While the average pay of kickers ($2.26M) is actually above that of RBs, TEs, CBs, and P, the average pay of "starting kickers" to starters of those other positions (except P) is much less. A quick way to get an idea of how much less is to look at franchise tags:

Franchise tag:

• Quarterback: $32.42MM
• Running back: $10.1MM
• Wide receiver: $19.74MM
• Tight end: $11.36MM
• Offensive linemen: $18.24MM
• Defensive end: $19.73MM
• Defensive tackle: $18.94MM
• Linebacker: $20.93MM
• Cornerback: $18.14MM
• Safety: $14.46MM
• Kicker/punter: $5.39MM

Transition tag:

• Quarterback: $29.5MM
• Running back: $8.43MM
• Wide receiver: $17.99MM
• Tight end: $9.72MM
• Offensive linemen: $16.66MM
• Defensive end: $17.45MM
• Defensive tackle: $16.1MM
• Linebacker: $17.48MM
• Cornerback: $15.79MM
• Safety: $11.87MM
• Kicker/punter: $4.87MM

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

Kickers lead the NFL in scoring almost every season and within those seasons, almost every team's kicker is the team's leading scorer. The position isn't "platooned" with depth, meaning most teams only have 1 kicker rostered. Yet, the highest paid K in the NFL was Tucker at $6M. While the average pay of kickers ($2.26M) is actually above that of RBs, TEs, CBs, and P, the average pay of "starting kickers" to starters of those other positions (except P) is much less. A quick way to get an idea of how much less is to look at franchise tags:

Franchise tag:

• Quarterback: $32.42MM
• Running back: $10.1MM
• Wide receiver: $19.74MM
• Tight end: $11.36MM
• Offensive linemen: $18.24MM
• Defensive end: $19.73MM
• Defensive tackle: $18.94MM
• Linebacker: $20.93MM
• Cornerback: $18.14MM
• Safety: $14.46MM
• Kicker/punter: $5.39MM

Transition tag:

• Quarterback: $29.5MM
• Running back: $8.43MM
• Wide receiver: $17.99MM
• Tight end: $9.72MM
• Offensive linemen: $16.66MM
• Defensive end: $17.45MM
• Defensive tackle: $16.1MM
• Linebacker: $17.48MM
• Cornerback: $15.79MM
• Safety: $11.87MM
• Kicker/punter: $4.87MM

In our case, ever since Chip Kelly, continuing with Doug Pederson, and also Sirianni, we go for 2 more, and especially go for it on 4th down more, minimizing the role of our kicker.

Kickers only lead the league in scoring because the rest of the offense spreads the scoring load among at least, like 6 players while the kicker gets to kick the extra point after each score, and some FGs.

He has no sweat equity. Not a physically demanding job. And not expected to have much trouble after his career. They can make a ton more money with their leg talent if they go play soccer yet there will always be kickers because this job is super easy and they become millionaires doing it. Its in no way comparable to an RBs job. 

3 hours ago, BigEFly said:

I am not worked up about the number of TC practices.  Players don’t go to camp to get in shape anymore.  To keep the job, they train in the offseason.  I bet Hurts has been working with the receivers in the offseason. It isn’t like TC ends and the next day they play the game either.  TC is basically mostly just position drills and some player evaluation.  17+ game season is a long time.

I don't know...there are two new coordinators and a ton of unknowns on defense with a lot of new faces. I am not thrilled at the idea of "building the airplane as they fly it". 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

Not trusting Sirianni to get the guys ready at this point is absurd. We might start the year slow, but it will have nothing to do with a shorter TC. Starting with NE in week 1 is not ideal, because Belicheck will have a custom gameplan that we haven't prepared for.

 

If the Eagles lose to the Patriots then that means the Eaglea defense has some major red flags and the year is in trouble.  Even if BB somehow holds the Eagles offense to just 20 points that ahoups be more than enough going aga8jst that putrid Patruots offense 

Disgusting to come away with only 1 run in that inning.  Turners double play ball killed the inning and took the kid off the hook.

Kid couldn't find the strike zone until Realmuto.  And they only got the run because of the balk.  

Did the kid throw more than 1 strike to a lefty in that inning?

And... its a tie game.  😒

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

Players pay is dictated first by positional value, and then by the talent of that player relative to others at his position.  The starting point in negotiations for certain positions is obviously higher than others, and then the talent dictates if the guy is going to get a new record high deal or not.

The RB issue is that the positional value is not just low, its ridiculously low.

The position may supposedly have plenty of talent who can produce statistics. But it is still a position that is vitally important.

The RB is another pass protector for the QB. They are another target, and often times an outlet for the QB. So they protect the QB in both ways.

The RB also touches the ball more than anyone else on offense, other than the QB. Even though RBs dont get 20+ carries in a game anymore. 12 carries is still almost always more than your top receiving target is touching it.

When you want to ice a game, you rely on an RB to pick up those tough 1st downs to keep the clock moving. So the RB can be vitally important to winning games. There may be a million people who can play RB in the NFL but we couldnt win the super bowl specifically without guys like Blount and Ajayi. So you cant always minimize a RBs impact by saying they are a dime a dozen.

They are also hit on just about every play so their sweat equity is up there with OL. And theyll pay for it physically and mentally after their careers more than most positions. So other than the performance side of things, and the Xs and Os side of things, theres the humane argument as well that tells you you should take care of these guys recognizing that they are willing to give up for you as the owner/GM, etc.

 

I dont care which individual RB is breaking barriers as the new highest paid at his position. And I dont care to see RBs as a top 3 paid position in the league or anything like that.

But I think they have a legit argument that they are worth more, positionally, than the NFL is willing to commit. 

I think a problem a lot of people have when debating this topic is they can’t differentiate the player from the position.

The RB position is extraordinarily valuable to the offense; but the individual player is not. The difference between the 9th best RB and the 23rd best running back is probably the smallest difference in impact of winning a football game of any position (other than maybe tight end). What catapults franchise tag numbers are top end starters who separate themselves from everyone else. Other than a few exceptions, this is just not happening at the RB position due to a myriad of factors. Is Tony Pollard worth more than twice what Miles Sanders is? No. Is Saquon Barkley? Probably not. Is Miles worth 4 times was Rashaad Penny is worth? Depending on if Rashaad can stay healthy, definitely not.

It will continue to correct itself, and I wouldnt be surprised if the tag continues to drop as the contracts of the Derrick Henry’s and the Ezekiel Elliot’s go away.

4 hours ago, BigEFly said:

I am not worked up about the number of TC practices.  Players don’t go to camp to get in shape anymore.  To keep the job, they train in the offseason.  I bet Hurts has been working with the receivers in the offseason. It isn’t like TC ends and the next day they play the game either.  TC is basically mostly just position drills and some player evaluation.  17+ game season is a long time.

Nor am I. They have at least nine starters back on offense and the only rookie with a shot at starting is Steen. Nine practices is more than enough to sort all that out. Further, they do a lot of stuff that doesn't fit the term "practice." O line drills are a constant with Stoutland, who has said, time and again, that they work on their stuff Every. Single. Day.

Defense is a different story, what with new LBs, safeties, and DC. Even so, most of what they need to work on is keys, reads, calls, etc. Positioning. Responsibilities. That stuff comes first in the classroom and walkthroughs. Practice is reps applying what they've studied.