😂 Jose Ramirez just knocked Tim Anderson the eff out wow 

34 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Thank you for the candid response.  It leaves me with two questions.

Will a person who is charged with a crime forever have lost their innocence?

What verdict can a jury return other than (1) hung jury, (2) guilty, (3) not guilty?  

Maybe just admit you were wrong about not guilty being the same as innocent and your life can get back to normal? Or just keep doubling down. Maybe you can turn this around. 

3 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

 

A couple thoughts...

Last year, they changed the "Eagles" logo on the field, but not on the jerseys (which still used the previous logo). The new logo isn't on these jerseys either. What was the point of the change?

Last year's jerseys (still with the old logo):

 

 

 

My other thought is: I really want the Kelly Green with black cleats.

 

 

Not a fan of the black alternate uniform looks, but I've always liked the Kelly Green with black cleats.

37 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Thank you for the candid response.  It leaves me with two questions.

Will a person who is charged with a crime forever have lost their innocence?

What verdict can a jury return other than (1) hung jury, (2) guilty, (3) not guilty?  

First question: do you mean objectively or do you mean in the court of public opinion? Objectively, depends on if they committed the crime or not. if they didn’t commit the crime, then no. Even if they get wrongly convicted, if they didn’t commit the crime they’re still innocent. In the court of public opinion sometimes people do unfortunately even before a trial’s conclusion. Which is why I think due process is important.

Second: in a criminal case it’s guilty or not guilty. A hung jury isn’t a verdict, in fact it means a verdict was unable to be reached. Usually a judge implores a jury to try to reach a verdict, especially if it’s a lengthy and important trial and the potential of having it retried again is costly and lengthy. 

Fun fact: in Northern Ireland and I think(?) Australia the double jeopardy laws are a little different than the US. In the US if you’re acquitted(criminal case) then you can’t be retried again for the same crime. You could literally be acquitted for murder, run around town and tell everyone at the top of your lungs you committed the murder and there’s nothing they could do. In Northern Ireland and Australia a person acquitted for a crime can be retried if there’s new and compelling evidence. But it has to be very strong evidence. A person for example who got acquitted for murder is not going to be retired just because a person heard from a person that they actually did it. That wouldn’t qualify as strong enough evidence.

8 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

A couple thoughts...

Last year, they changed the "Eagles" logo on the field, but not on the jerseys (which still used the previous logo). The new logo isn't on these jerseys either. What was the point of the change?

Last year's jerseys (still with the old logo):

 

 

 

My other thought is: I really want the Kelly Green with black cleats.

 

 

Not a fan of the black alternate uniform looks, but I've always liked the Kelly Green with black cleats.

wordmark cant show up on unis till next year.

I suspected they went with a more retro look to match with the throwback kellys. Maybe next year it all gets brought together.

And more people buy more jerseys to get the updated one with the wordmark logo on the chest. 

8 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

A couple thoughts...

Last year, they changed the "Eagles" logo on the field, but not on the jerseys (which still used the previous logo). The new logo isn't on these jerseys either. What was the point of the change?

Last year's jerseys (still with the old logo):

 

 

 

My other thought is: I really want the Kelly Green with black cleats.

 

 

Not a fan of the black alternate uniform looks, but I've always liked the Kelly Green with black cleats.

 

Pretty sure they've said the new logo will be on the jerseys next year, or at least that has always been the speculation.  When they did the logo change they said the old wordmark would remain on the jerseys for at least one more year.

 

This has led to most of the speculation that we are getting a complete Nike uniform overhaul. 

2 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Yeah that one is almost a bit silly

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I know football way better and this is a better score than I’ve ever gotten in the NFL one

⚾️ Immaculate Grid 125 9/9:
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I'm also terrible at baseball but this was the easy button.

Spoiler

I could have gone lower if I gave it time but I rushed Ted Williams and Willie Mays in upper left and upper middle.

 

6 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

How is Eric Berry even in the conversation? He was good for a short time but always more of "what if” story. 

"Cemetery" Gates should get in. He was a force out on the field for awhile

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

A couple thoughts...

Last year, they changed the "Eagles" logo on the field, but not on the jerseys (which still used the previous logo). The new logo isn't on these jerseys either. What was the point of the change?

Last year's jerseys (still with the old logo):

 

 

 

My other thought is: I really want the Kelly Green with black cleats.

 

 

Not a fan of the black alternate uniform looks, but I've always liked the Kelly Green with black cleats.

main reason on why I'm not buying a regular jersey this year, the new wordmark is not yet established 

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Maybe just admit you were wrong about not guilty being the same as innocent and your life can get back to normal? Or just keep doubling down. Maybe you can turn this around. 

Everyone is Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

Not Guilty obviously means Not Proven Guilty which of course still caries that original Innocent.

Its very simple logic. There is nothing to turn around. The court has no need to ever find anyone innocent. They already are innocent.

 

You are of course free to have your own little special feelings.

If the court of public opinion also wants to have special feelings it still has no bearing on guilt or innocence.

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Maybe just admit you were wrong about not guilty being the same as innocent and your life can get back to normal? Or just keep doubling down. Maybe you can turn this around. 

Maybe just answer the questions 

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

First question: do you mean objectively or do you mean in the court of public opinion? Objectively, depends on if they committed the crime or not. if they didn’t commit the crime, then no. Even if they get wrongly convicted, if they didn’t commit the crime they’re still innocent. In the court of public opinion sometimes people do unfortunately even before a trial’s conclusion. Which is why I think due process is important.

Second: in a criminal case it’s guilty or not guilty. A hung jury isn’t a verdict, in fact it means a verdict was unable to be reached. Usually a judge implores a jury to try to reach a verdict, especially if it’s a lengthy and important trial and the potential of having it retried again is costly and lengthy. 

Fun fact: in Northern Ireland and I think(?) Australia the double jeopardy laws are a little different than the US. In the US if you’re acquitted(criminal case) then you can’t be retried again for the same crime. You could literally be acquitted for murder, run around town and tell everyone at the top of your lungs you committed the murder and there’s nothing they could do. In Northern Ireland and Australia a person acquitted for a crime can be retried if there’s new and compelling evidence. But it has to be very strong evidence. A person for example who got acquitted for murder is not going to be retired just because a person heard from a person that they actually did it. That wouldn’t qualify as strong enough evidence.

Interesting answer.  It prompts the following thoughts. There is only one person who has the ability to be objective … the person himself/herself, and as we have seen in national politics, that one person can’t consistently be relied upon to be objective about his/her own actions.  So innocence, as you are using the term, is  a social construct, and social constructs are played out in the court of public opinion.

What I hear you saying is that the concept of "innocence” never enters or leaves a courthouse.  Said another way, nothing that happens in a courthouse has any impact whatsoever on the innocence or lack of innocence of the defendant in any court case.

Am I hearing you correctly?

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Random thoughts on camp so far…

* Seems like the RG competition is over and Steen will be our Vaitai. He’s a Swiss Army Knife backup at LT/RG and maybe even RT. I’m curious how much his reps at LT are an indictment on Kelly and the other tackles.

* Swift’s usage will be interesting to watch. His ability is going to expand the route tree at RB this year. Angle routes/wheels should be there with Brown/Smith/Goedert commanding attention as well as teams spying Hurts. I’m curious if we see some pony packages with Penny/Swift, where Swift can move into the slot as a receiver or maybe he comes in motion for those tap passes. 

* Would have liked to have heard a little more buzz about Davis and Carter, but the reviews seems to be ok to fine. As for some other rookies, Brown has been lauded for looking the part athletically but things don’t seem to be clicking just yet. That makes sense since we have our safeties play differently than what he did at Illinois. Ringo seems destined for a redshirt year. Ojomo has flown under the radar a bit, but his camp sounds promising. McKee should easily beat out Book.

* I intentionally left Smith out because he’s garnered the most buzz. I’m suspect his impact will be minimal early on due to our depth, but his skill set is so intriguing. I know some are concerned with him moonlighting at LB, but I love it. It’s our weakest position, and just being able to spot drop and not look like a fish out of water would unlock some interesting possibilities for the defense. I’m not saying he’s Micah Parsons, but to be deployed similarly (and effectively) would be so valuable. 

* It would be nice if Dean would pop a little more in practice. I don’t recall reading anything of note about him to this point. Maybe he’s just a guy who plays better on Sundays after spending a week game planning for a team. Elliss likely is in the lead at LB. I don’t think Morrow is a roster lock, but I do think he at the very least provides a decent depth player. Considering what we have at LB, that’s important. 

* If Jobe beats out Greedy then he’s getting cut, right? I haven’t heard a thing about Kentavious Street either. It sounds like Marlon T is having a nice camp. Ojomo wins any tiebreaker because of youth and cost control. That puts Street 6th/7th on the depth chart. Maybe he gets moved if a team suffers an injury at DT. Or maybe he joins the growing list of FA signings who get cut.

* It feels good to not be worried about the starting QB. Sounds like he’s made a big leap in the accuracy department. 

I agree with the RG battle. At first I was curious what they would do in the event Kelce has a veteran rest day but it seems like they built those rest days in with practice being almost every other day. Stoutland said versatility was key for backups and I think that’s what we are seeing with Steen. He’s obviously going to make the team but it’s at the point where he’s taking on a depth piece role for now. 

Greedy seems certain to get cut unless he turns it around fast. Feels like Howie took a flier on a former high end talent but secretly wanted the young guys to beat him out, which it seems like they are. 

Punter battle seems to be the most overhyped/underwhelming angle this training camp. I have no idea why they are infatuated with Siposs or how many times they need to see him come up small in big moments, but it feels like we’ll eventually see another. 

35 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Everyone is Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

Skippy, I would like to believe that is true, but as any woman who brings a charge of rape forward, the tried and true defense in a rape case is to attack the woman as "guilty until proven innocent”

From Webster:

 

innocent

1 of 2

adjective

in·no·cent ˈi-nə-sənt 

 

Synonyms of innocent

1

a

: free from legal guilt or fault

also  : LAWFUL

Let’s settle the bygones and differences and call him "basically an innocent”. 

2 hours ago, justwinbaby said:

😂 Jose Ramirez just knocked Tim Anderson the eff out wow 

He didn't knock him out.  He clipped him pretty good and stunned him but he definitely wasn't out.

I like how the umpire was trying to get in between them and as soon as they squared up the ump took off and was out 😄.

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Random thoughts on camp so far…

* Seems like the RG competition is over and Steen will be our Vaitai. He’s a Swiss Army Knife backup at LT/RG and maybe even RT. I’m curious how much his reps at LT are an indictment on Kelly and the other tackles.

* Swift’s usage will be interesting to watch. His ability is going to expand the route tree at RB this year. Angle routes/wheels should be there with Brown/Smith/Goedert commanding attention as well as teams spying Hurts. I’m curious if we see some pony packages with Penny/Swift, where Swift can move into the slot as a receiver or maybe he comes in motion for those tap passes. 

* Would have liked to have heard a little more buzz about Davis and Carter, but the reviews seems to be ok to fine. As for some other rookies, Brown has been lauded for looking the part athletically but things don’t seem to be clicking just yet. That makes sense since we have our safeties play differently than what he did at Illinois. Ringo seems destined for a redshirt year. Ojomo has flown under the radar a bit, but his camp sounds promising. McKee should easily beat out Book.

* I intentionally left Smith out because he’s garnered the most buzz. I’m suspect his impact will be minimal early on due to our depth, but his skill set is so intriguing. I know some are concerned with him moonlighting at LB, but I love it. It’s our weakest position, and just being able to spot drop and not look like a fish out of water would unlock some interesting possibilities for the defense. I’m not saying he’s Micah Parsons, but to be deployed similarly (and effectively) would be so valuable. 

* It would be nice if Dean would pop a little more in practice. I don’t recall reading anything of note about him to this point. Maybe he’s just a guy who plays better on Sundays after spending a week game planning for a team. Elliss likely is in the lead at LB. I don’t think Morrow is a roster lock, but I do think he at the very least provides a decent depth player. Considering what we have at LB, that’s important. 

* If Jobe beats out Greedy then he’s getting cut, right? I haven’t heard a thing about Kentavious Street either. It sounds like Marlon T is having a nice camp. Ojomo wins any tiebreaker because of youth and cost control. That puts Street 6th/7th on the depth chart. Maybe he gets moved if a team suffers an injury at DT. Or maybe he joins the growing list of FA signings who get cut.

* It feels good to not be worried about the starting QB. Sounds like he’s made a big leap in the accuracy department. 

Wasn't Steen the LT at Alabama? His issue is arm length, which makes him a better candidate for guard at the NHL level, but that's more a matter of upside, as far as being able to fill in, he was an excellent college LT.

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

Interesting answer.  It prompts the following thoughts. There is only one person who has the ability to be objective … the person himself/herself, and as we have seen in national politics, that one person can’t consistently be relied upon to be objective about his/her own actions.  So innocence, as you are using the term, is  a social construct, and social constructs are played out in the court of public opinion.

What I hear you saying is that the concept of "innocence” never enters or leaves a courthouse.  Said another way, nothing that happens in a courthouse has any impact whatsoever on the innocence or lack of innocence of the defendant in any court case.

Am I hearing you correctly?

Aside from an attorney possibly using the term during statements or whatever or offhandedly, you aren't going to see or hear the term used in an official sense in criminal justice usually. Innocent isn't an official legal declaration. If you're acquitted, you're declared not guilty legally. You aren't declared innocent.

Every person is presumed "innocent" until proven guilty. If you are found not guilty at trial, it just means that the prosecution couldn't prove you were guilty. But you aren't declared "innocent" by the criminal justice system.

Depending on what viewpoint you're looking at, the two could be kinda sorta similar, but in other instances they are very much different. An innocent person who has never been charged or tried for any crime is recognized by law the same as someone who was found not guilty and was tried and charged. You both have your freedom just the same. Society doesn't recognize either of you as a criminal(unless charged and convicted for a different crime at an other point in time obviously). But the reason I think it's important to differentiate between innocence and not guilty is because you do have people who committed no crimes, but were wrongfully sent to prison anyway for crimes they didn't commit. Now, they are going to be officially recognized by the criminal justice system and declared "guilty" but if they didn't actually commit the crime then they are innocent. The criminal justice system's declaration can't be the golden truth that all society has to recognize, because it isn't always correct. And in cases where someone wrongfully convicted gets their freedom back, their convicted can be overturned. They lose the guilty designation, so they are no longer recognized by the criminal justice system as guilty of the crime(s).

So, yes, innocence is more of a societal term, a moral or philosophical one, not really one used in official criminal justice.

It could be that Jurgens and Steen have very similar size, ability, athleticism, and skillsets. Only one of them got a 1 year certificate from Stoutland U at this point. Good for Jurgens and I hope he excels, but don't think of it as Steen losing a competition.  If Kelce comes back in 2024 to go for a repeat title then there would be a real competition for that spot.

 

As for arm length, the NFL prefers 34 inches+ for OTs but being below that is not a death sentence. They also prefer QBs to be 6'4"+

• Lane Johnson dominates with 35 1/4 arms.
• Jordan Mailata has 35 1/2 arms.
• Jason Peters dominated with 33 1/8 arms.
• Steen measured at 32 3/4 arm length.
• Driscoll measures in at 33 FWIW

I wouldn't fret Carter not going berserk immediately. DTs take notoriously long to stand out.

2 hours ago, greendestiny27 said:

"Cemetery" Gates should get in. He was a force out on the field for awhile

It always brings a smile to my face when someone spells cemetery correctly. It seems quite rare.

5 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Everyone is Innocent Until Proven Guilty.

Presumed innocent. Also, google "is innocent the same as not guilty." Not sure what I can add to the hundreds of readily available opinions from experts in the legal profession saying they aren't the same thing.

7 hours ago, austinfan said:

Wasn't Steen the LT at Alabama? His issue is arm length, which makes him a better candidate for guard at the NHL level, but that's more a matter of upside, as far as being able to fill in, he was an excellent college LT.

I think with his arm lengrh he is best suited as a 3rd line Power Forward at the NHL level.  

10 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Random thoughts on camp so far…

* Seems like the RG competition is over and Steen will be our Vaitai. He’s a Swiss Army Knife backup at LT/RG and maybe even RT. I’m curious how much his reps at LT are an indictment on Kelly and the other tackles.

* Swift’s usage will be interesting to watch. His ability is going to expand the route tree at RB this year. Angle routes/wheels should be there with Brown/Smith/Goedert commanding attention as well as teams spying Hurts. I’m curious if we see some pony packages with Penny/Swift, where Swift can move into the slot as a receiver or maybe he comes in motion for those tap passes. 

* Would have liked to have heard a little more buzz about Davis and Carter, but the reviews seems to be ok to fine. As for some other rookies, Brown has been lauded for looking the part athletically but things don’t seem to be clicking just yet. That makes sense since we have our safeties play differently than what he did at Illinois. Ringo seems destined for a redshirt year. Ojomo has flown under the radar a bit, but his camp sounds promising. McKee should easily beat out Book.

* I intentionally left Smith out because he’s garnered the most buzz. I’m suspect his impact will be minimal early on due to our depth, but his skill set is so intriguing. I know some are concerned with him moonlighting at LB, but I love it. It’s our weakest position, and just being able to spot drop and not look like a fish out of water would unlock some interesting possibilities for the defense. I’m not saying he’s Micah Parsons, but to be deployed similarly (and effectively) would be so valuable. 

* It would be nice if Dean would pop a little more in practice. I don’t recall reading anything of note about him to this point. Maybe he’s just a guy who plays better on Sundays after spending a week game planning for a team. Elliss likely is in the lead at LB. I don’t think Morrow is a roster lock, but I do think he at the very least provides a decent depth player. Considering what we have at LB, that’s important. 

* If Jobe beats out Greedy then he’s getting cut, right? I haven’t heard a thing about Kentavious Street either. It sounds like Marlon T is having a nice camp. Ojomo wins any tiebreaker because of youth and cost control. That puts Street 6th/7th on the depth chart. Maybe he gets moved if a team suffers an injury at DT. Or maybe he joins the growing list of FA signings who get cut.

* It feels good to not be worried about the starting QB. Sounds like he’s made a big leap in the accuracy department. 

Basing all of my thoughts on the little we're given from terrible camp coverage🤣 Sorry, had to get that in there for the day!

-Yea, seems like RG is Jurgens job to lose. It sounds like he's been inconsistent which you would think would give Steen the chance to sneak in there but he hasn't. I'm perfectly OK with Steen being OL6 and Jurgens the RG for 2023. Steen will see the field at some point along the line this year and then in 2024, RG is his and Jurgens is C.

-Swift is your starting RB and like I've been saying from the day he got here, I think they'd be wise to lock him up for 3 years before the season starts. He's young, supremely talented and a Philly guy. If he stays healthy he's going to be a stud.

-With the way the Eagles hold camp, I'm not surprised we haven't heard much. The good news is Davis came in to camp in shape and Carters strength has been on display. Going to be hard to have any opinion on these guys (or any for that matter) until the lights go on next Saturday. Reub is doing a focus on Ojomo and I really think he's going to have a role on this team. Might be limited but he's going to be here. This might sound premature but he might be a replacement for Milton Williams down the road. It sounds like Milton is a man on a mission and if he plays like many of us think, his next contract could be a doozie. 

-I'm THRILLED to see Nolan Smith get reps as an off-ball LB. The Eagles NEED LB and Smith could be a damn good one. Plus, there's nothing keeping Desai from rushing him from any position. Doesn't have to be lined up at Reddick's position to rush. I want the best talent on the field and Smith is already one of their best on defense. He needs to be on the field.

-Dean on the other hand...I'm going with the optimistic approach and saying he's a gamer. His #1 job in camp should be making sure he has everyone lined up where they need to be. His style is so dependent on read/react/explode. Kind of hard to do that in camp if you're constantly needing to let up because of contact rules and such. I think he shows up on gameday and that's what matters.

-Greedy isn't making this team. I loved him as a prospect and was happy when they brought him in. I'm a huge supporter of bringing in as many elite talented players as possible. No matter if they've been a bust or just haven't reached their potential yet, having elite talent is a terrific place to start. I posted about it during the week but I really think the Eagles have stocked the CB room with some great young talent. Long, lean, outside CB with range. I'm on board with keeping 7+ in order to keep them around. Williams wouldn't be one of those guys right now though.

-Jalen Hurts is the guy, no questions asked. 

-I'll add a few more (again based on our limited, terrible coverage! haha)

-I think Boston Scott is in a roster battle he hasn't had before with Sermon. The coaches seem to love Sermon and I'm excited to see him get some PT behind the staters.

-TE2 is still a need. Calcaterra has been mentioned a few times but nothing that really jumps out to me. Watching other teams camp highlights, so many available since we don't get any, I keep seeing these rookie TE's making play after play. I was really wanting the Eagles to snag one in this draft. There was so much TE talent.

-Is the K'Von Wallace hype real or is he just keeping the seat warm?

-I've already heard enough about Nick Morrow to know that I don't want him on the team, nor do I think he makes it. I'd rather take a gamble on Ben VanSumeren and his elite athletic ability than Morrow. 

-Hope to see Charleston Rambo play a ton in the games.