You can make a poll about which season is better. I expect Moss wins in a landslide.

1 minute ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Calvin has no power over his offense’s ability to score without him. If those drives led to TDs instead by some imaginary great redzone TE Detroit had, does that make Calvin’s season suddenly better? He has no control over that

Either does moss so why does it matter?

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Either does moss so why does it matter?

That’s the entire point. If his TDs get cut in half due to offensive playcalling changes but the team scoring doesn’t change a great deal, is he having a worse season? Not at a significant level. He’s still the #1, near-1500 yard WR on one of the best offenses in NFL history. But if he stops getting the ball enough that his yardage drops by the hundreds, that’s more significant. Randy catching many of those touchdowns and not someone else is in large part happenstance

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

TO was a jackass.

He was also a 5x first team all-pro WR so get over him being a jackass.

He finished 2nd in receiving yards and 3rd in receiving TDs (3 behind Moss for 2nd)

So if the question of who is TO better than at WR the answer is pretty much everyone besides Rice who was better and Moss who was similar.

 

He's another guy who people don't like but his record does not care if you like him.

The fact that TO was a jackass isn't really meaningful.  What is meaningful is that TO was a team destroyer.  Football is a team sport, not an individual sport.  TO depreciated the value of and contribution of his teammates, and as a result the teams he was on fell short of their potential.  The individual player is secondary to the team.

3 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Calvin has no power over his offense’s ability to score without him. If those drives led to TDs instead by some imaginary great redzone TE Detroit had, does that make Calvin’s season suddenly better? He has no control over that

That’s exactly the point. Actually finishing the play by scoring matters. The difference between going out of bounds at the 1 and staying in bounds for the TD freaking matters.

Not scoring means there is the possibility that all those yards are meaningless. And statistically, it means some of those yards WILL be meaningless.

I’ll just add that Moss was the best skill player on not one, but TWO of the greatest offenses in NFL history.

I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

8 minutes ago, TEW said:

That’s exactly the point. Actually finishing the play by scoring matters. The difference between going out of bounds at the 1 and staying in bounds for the TD freaking matters.

Not scoring means there is the possibility that all those yards are meaningless. And statistically, it means some of those yards WILL be meaningless.

Absolutely it means potentially the yards could be meaningless, what if there’s a turnover on the next play? But the yards are still necessary, meaningless or not, TD or not. It is not my intent to state the TD is worthless, just that it is secondary to the yards gained (for the WR)

1 minute ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

That’s the entire point. If his TDs get cut in half due to offensive playcalling changes but the team scoring doesn’t change a great deal, is he having a worse season? Not at a significant level. He’s still the #1, near-1500 yard WR on one of the best offenses in NFL history. But if he stops getting the ball enough that his yardage drops by the hundreds, that’s more significant. Randy catching many of those touchdowns and not someone else is in large part happenstance

That a lot of what ifs and pretzel twisting.

It's not happening stance.

You are acting like every single one of Moss' tds were a result of a bunch of other dudes moving the ball and him scoring a 1 yard TD that would have happened whether he was on the field or not because well someone had to score right?

Well someone else didn't score, moss did 23 times because he was making plays.

If you're going to excuse moss' tds away by saying someone had to catch them then I e could just as easily use that same argument to excuse Megatron's yards away, I mean someone had to catch them right? 

If Moss' offense is so stacked then why is he catching the majority of the TDS, why aren't all those other guys in the team.scoring 23 tds, and if megatron is the focal point of the offense then why isnt he scoring tds at a higher rate???

It's just a non sensical argument you are trying to make and I'm not sure why you're digging in???

 

2 hours ago, Captain F said:

T.O. > Harrison and it's really not close. 

Actually it is. Who‘S better, AJ or Devonta? Not taking a side here but it’s pretty damn close.

 

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

TO was the Donald Trump of his era.

Please leave that alone.

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

That a lot of what ifs and pretzel twisting.

It's not happening stance.

You are acting like every single one of Moss' tds were a result of a bunch of other dudes moving the ball and him scoring a 1 yard TD that would have happened whether he was on the field or not because well someone had to score right?

Well someone else didn't score, moss did 23 times because he was making plays.

If you're going to excuse moss' tds away by saying someone had to catch them then I e could just as easily use that same argument to excuse Megatron's yards away, I mean someone had to catch them right? 

If Moss' offense is so stacked then why is he catching the majority of the TDS, why aren't all those other guys in the team.scoring 23 tds, and if megatron is the focal point of the offense then why isnt he scoring tds at a higher rate???

It's just a non sensical argument you are trying to make and I'm not sure why you're digging in???

 

What do you mean by digging in? It’s the argument I’m supporting. Are you not digging in as well?

Kind of agree and kind if disagree with this.  I think Hargrave was a good player at Pitt before we brought him in but, yeah, he pretty much excelled in the pass rushing role with the talent around him.

It's always kinda funny to me that Larry Fitzgerald rarely gets brought up in these "best WR" conversations despite being second all time in both receptions and yards. I'm not saying I disagree, he's not the top of my list either.  But a part of me always thinks maybe we (myself included) overvalue freakish traits sometimes over technique consistency and longevity. 

23 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Whoever created a new thread complaining about there being baseball or basketball talk in the blog I told to grow a pair and they reported me like a little bish and I got suspended for two weeks….. 

Anyone who reports anyone is weaksauce x1000

I created that thread as a snarky protest and fully expected snark back. I got plenty. Its going to take more than being called a bish for me to report someone. I'm 99% sure I did not report you but if you are going to break the TOS in the first couple of posts of a new thread maybe the Mods just saw it? I had no idea you were suspended. A mod was the 6th or 7th reply and locked the thread.

AFAIK I have used report 3 or 4 times since I returned. I would guess I was 1 of 10+ for at least 2 of them.

The SD Chargers butt icon guy stalked me and dropped a meme with the F U spelled out in it right after I told him to back off. I will proudly report that 24/7/365. ( I had warned him several times to back off the insults)

His buddy (someone from NC maybe? Red Something?) about a month earlier was on a stalking spree and I think something like 10 of us reported him. (many of us had warned him several times to back off the insults)

People left the boards over those guys. I heard stories of classic and respected people who were long gone because of their behavior.

Someone said something insanely vile one time and I think I was surprised but they were already gone and the comment quickly disappeared.  I did not report that time but I think 10 other people did so there was no need. If they stayed and kept doing it I am sure I would have reported them.

Fart Joke Guy going Ranter Only had nothing to do with me. He's mildly amusing most of the time and I can put him on ignore if he's getting too saucy.

Its possible that fart joke guy was the guy from the 3rd case but I have no idea. I don't hold onto that stuff.

 

Maybe someone used the C word at me with spacing once and I reported them? I'm not sure but I would. If that was you then don't do that.

 

I'm much more likely to insult your argument, use ignore, or give you a link that supports my point than to report you. I might come back with a 20 line defense of my point.

The Report function is only a last resort. I could not tell you 80% of the rules but I don't tolerate direct and repeated harassment after I have said back off

I rarely even have to say back off and 99% of people do back off.

 

14 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

It's always kinda funny to me that Larry Fitzgerald rarely gets brought up in these "best WR" conversations despite being second all time in both receptions and yards. I'm not saying I disagree, he's not the top of my list either.  But a part of me always thinks maybe we (myself included) overvalue freakish traits sometimes over technique consistency and longevity. 

I can answer that one. We hate his guts over the 2008 playoffs. That still hurts.

His peak was pretty awesome but he was kind of a compiler. Looking back at his stats I guess he belongs in that 4-8 discussion.

Mike Evans might be similar. Evans won a SB and is going to the HoF if he keeps going but I don't think he will make many top 5 lists.

(not saying Evans is Fitz yet)

42 minutes ago, mattwill said:

The fact that TO was a jackass isn't really meaningful.  What is meaningful is that TO was a team destroyer.  Football is a team sport, not an individual sport.  TO depreciated the value of and contribution of his teammates, and as a result the teams he was on fell short of their potential.  The individual player is secondary to the team.

So was Cris Carter (drugs)

So was Moss (Oakland)

Rice was a cheater (self admitted stickem)

Everyone is free to add whatever spin they want to their personal list.

26 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

It's always kinda funny to me that Larry Fitzgerald rarely gets brought up in these "best WR" conversations despite being second all time in both receptions and yards. I'm not saying I disagree, he's not the top of my list either.  But a part of me always thinks maybe we (myself included) overvalue freakish traits sometimes over technique consistency and longevity. 

TD rate 11.8.

If it's 3rd 8 and I need 8 yards for a first down Larry is my guy. He was a chain mover but so were guys like randy TO Marvin Harrison etc...who all have better TD/ rec rate, higher yards/ catch more big plays and close to same amount of yards and catches.

What I really like about Larry is he wasn't a drama queen, not even a little, total pro on and off the field, so was megatron!

40 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

What do you mean by digging in? It’s the argument I’m supporting. Are you not digging in as well?

You aren't supporting your argument with anything logical or sensical though

 

Side note when I typed sensical my auto correct changed it to sensual😆

44 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

It's always kinda funny to me that Larry Fitzgerald rarely gets brought up in these "best WR" conversations despite being second all time in both receptions and yards. I'm not saying I disagree, he's not the top of my list either.  But a part of me always thinks maybe we (myself included) overvalue freakish traits sometimes over technique consistency and longevity. 

Fitzgerald did have freakish traits, though.  He was a gazelle out there.

45 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

It's always kinda funny to me that Larry Fitzgerald rarely gets brought up in these "best WR" conversations despite being second all time in both receptions and yards. I'm not saying I disagree, he's not the top of my list either.  But a part of me always thinks maybe we (myself included) overvalue freakish traits sometimes over technique consistency and longevity. 

Another guy along those same lines is Steve largeant.

Not an athletic freak by any means, not big not overly fast but the guy was productive and effective.

TD reception rate 8.2 which is elite.

 

14 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 

Yeah I don't want to hear any of that.

Just let him be Sydney Brown and not have to live up to one of the most beloved eagles of all time.

 

1 hour ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

High probability chances, yes. Not guaranteed. Still, a probability built on getting them to that scenario. Randy’s 23 TDs can be replaced, albeit not all of them, in a different scenario. Calvin’s 1900 receiving yards cannot. The WR is needed to move the ball down the field more than he is to score the TD

I would argue the opposite.

It’s a LOT harder to get the ball into the end zone than to generate yardage. Hence why there are so many 1,000+ yard players and so few 10+ TD players.

Moss was the ultimate "points on his own” guy. Didn’t matter if you were on your own 20 or the other team’s 1 yard line, he could punch it in from anywhere on the field, and that’s a skill set maybe half a dozen players in NFL history have had. Unfortunately, CJ wasn’t one of them despite his size/speed numbers.

This might be one of my favorite assessments of a player and to understanding the milk comment 

 

1 hour ago, Cliftoma said:

Kind of agree and kind if disagree with this.  I think Hargrave was a good player at Pitt before we brought him in but, yeah, he pretty much excelled in the pass rushing role with the talent around him.

Agreed.

He was always a good player. He had 7.5 sacks in 2021 and 6.5 with the Steelers in 2018. Those are really good sack totals for an interior lineman.

Yeah, he had a breakout season last year playing with one of the best group of pass rushers ever assembled, but it wasn’t like he was a 3 sack run stuffer his whole career who came out of no where. And his interior pressure enabled a lot of the edge rushers to do what they did.

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

It's always kinda funny to me that Larry Fitzgerald rarely gets brought up in these "best WR" conversations despite being second all time in both receptions and yards. I'm not saying I disagree, he's not the top of my list either.  But a part of me always thinks maybe we (myself included) overvalue freakish traits sometimes over technique consistency and longevity. 

Wouldn’t Jerry Rice, who basically everyone agrees is the greatest receiver of all time, kind of contradict this notion? He was the ultimate technique guy. Plus Larry Fitzgerald was huge with great body control. It wasn’t like he didn’t have some freakish physical traits. For reference he was 6’3” 225 pounds and ran a 4.48 forty at his pro day. Those are pretty darn good numbers.