My guy, just love his game. He never doesn't pop when you watch him play. Was badly hoping the Eagles got him.

28 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I don't want to question Sirianni on his approach due to the success they had last year but at the same time, I see Patrick Mahomes out there playing with the starters and they are defending champs. Clearly, injuries are going to happen even if the Eagles have the lightest offseason workout schedule and pre-season game approach ever. I'd just would have really liked to see the starters get some PT. I know they claim joint practices are just as valuable but I also think a real live game is totally different. Opening against the Patriots isn't going to be an easy task.

You're preaching to the choir. Nothing is more important to a team's success than preparation. Preseason games are a tool available to help in that regard. Every season as of late, the Eagles begin defensively with a tackle slop-fest --- a direct result of doing everything they can to prevent injuries during camp and practice. The CBA limits just how much preparation time teams now have and it's much less than it was years ago. So to devalue the opportunity preseason games afford a team to get ready is actually kind of comical. If you think playing a player 5-10 snaps in a preseason game is a big risk then what are you doing to mitigate that risk during the actual season. You can't exactly not play your starters in the regular season to keep them healthy for the postseason. By being a dominant, winning team, you can perhaps get a week or two of rest at the end of a regular season if your postseason position is secure. So you want to make sure your team is ready in week 1.  But if you enter the season insufficiently prepared, and lose some games early due to sloppy play, you may have to expose your starters to every single regular season game at the end of the year and potentially play in one more postseason game than necessary if you don't lock up the bye. What is a bigger risk, a few plays in a preseason game or two or 2-3 entire extra meaningful games at the end of the year?

Now, for clarity, there are no guarantees. Playing starters for some of preseason won't guarantee you'll get a first round bye or lock that bye up early. But not playing them in preseason is no guarantee you'll avoid injuries either. You can avoid injuries at practice by deciding not to practice. All a preseason game is is a practice and it's the only kind of practice that follows a real game format completely. So, IMO, it's foolish to pass on the opportunity it affords. Other people live in perpetual fear of injuries and believe whole-heartedly in what Sirianni is doing and I'm not going to change any minds. 

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

My guy, just love his game. He never doesn't pop when you watch him play. Was badly hoping the Eagles got him.

I'm sure RBs were on their radar but I wouldn't trade Steen or Brown for him.

9 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

nope,   running QBs are best.  even if they aren't great throwers, they can win a playoff game.   Great running + average throwing does work.

Have you seen Josh Rosen's balls?  Such pretty balls.   I remember hearing that a lot before the draft.   Such great balls.   How'd he do?   How has the average non great running first round QB pick done in the last 10 years?   Poorly.

How about top running QBs picked in the 2nd round?  Like Jalen Hurts?

They've done well.

People who don't recognize the superiority of running QBs watch too much of the NFL media trash.

Again,  Jalen Hurts is a running QB.  I'm here to watch the running QB.  The Eagles have innovated with the running QB, and it took them to the Super Bowl.  QB power run,  rugby scrum,  short yardage innovation and wins.  The Eagles lost to the Niners in 2021.  First and goal at the one,  the Eagles failed and lost.  I complained about this.  The Eagles innovated,  fixed this problem and went to the Super Bowl the next year.  Some are complaining elsewhere in the NFL about this innovation.  Not me.  Running QBs are best.

This is a typed out version of Rain Man’s mind. 

3 hours ago, bpac55 said:

Surprisingly good information from ESP here, all posted below the tweet if you don't want to be redirected.

Random #Eagles Running Back thoughts:

*** Kenny Gainwell has 31 carries with the 1st-team offense in training camp. Nobody else has more than 14.

** I think Eagles top 3 running backs are, in some order, Gainwell, Swift and Boston Scott. They are the only three with 10+ 1st-team carries in training cap. Also only three that have rested in a preseason game.

** Gainwell (18) and Swift (16) are leading the RB in catches at practice. None of the other RBs have more than 8 (Sermon). They are clearly the 3rd down RBs.

** I think Penny and Sermon are battling for the 4th RB spot. Their usage is exactly the same in practices. Both dressed and played in both preseason games.

** If they are battling, it is very noteworthy that one is playing special teams, the other is not: Penny -- 0 Sermon -- 17

It would be very, very stupid to get rid of penny in favor of trey Fing sermon idc how many special teams snaps he takes. One guy who, while he has an extensive injury history, has actually shown talent in this league and the other who couldn't crack the roster last year.

Also insane that gainwell would start over either of swift or penny, he isn't on their level. It should be 

Swift/Penny

Penny/Swift 

Gainwell

Scott 

I think it’s a foolish game to give any attention to what beat writers think the Eagles running back depth chart will look like.

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Not a chance in the world. Last season they played 1 series in the first game. Jalen got hit late out of bounds. I don't even know if Mariota will play and he needs the work. 

I don't really think Mariota needs to be throwing to wrs who aren't likely to make the team.

People have brown smith OZ quez covey as the 5 wrs.  Occasionally OZ has been on the field,  had a few targets,  but the rest are auditioning for practice squad spots.   I'd maybe keep Ward as a 6th?  The competence is there, the ability to catch a high percentage of the time.  I'd give him practice squad at least. 

The Eagles need someone to help judge, measure, test the wrs and tes.   This isn't about making Mariota look good, or to try to put Mariota in a position that works the best, it's to see what wrs and tes can do.  Calcaterra doesn't catch overthrown balls, or balls thrown at a specific height that's too high.  He doesn't jump very high and he's shortish for a TE.   We know this because Mariota was throwing high balls.  If someone can jump very high, or be very tall, or both, it seems like the Eagles could use him, because McKee had trouble connecting with one of the taller wrs, who really wasn't quite tall enough.  

 

8 hours ago, Utebird said:

When I played football I weighed 135 pounds, after football I went up to 155 and was faster at 155 than 135.

Many sprinters will bulk up with added muscle to get faster not slower 

If he put on 10 pounds of fat then that'll definitely slow him down, ten pounds of muscle doesn't normally though.

Players say bigger faster stronger all the time 

They don't say fatter faster stronger.

He should be fine with 10 added pounds of muscle assuming he could put that on 

As you mentioned before the question is whether he has the frame to Put on 10 pounds of muscle, which is a legit question.

I mean, just look at the pics from the combine. He’s not a big guy by NFL standards and his body is already well developed. 

 

4 hours ago, devpool said:

It would be very, very stupid to get rid of penny in favor of trey Fing sermon idc how many special teams snaps he takes. One guy who, while he has an extensive injury history, has actually shown talent in this league and the other who couldn't crack the roster last year.

Also insane that gainwell would start over either of swift or penny, he isn't on their level. It should be 

Swift/Penny

Penny/Swift 

Gainwell

Scott 

Penny is the best RB on the team if we go by the last 2 years. The guy averages over 6 yards per carry. If you could give him the ball 20 times per game all season long, he’d be a first team all-pro by recent indications. On the other hand, you can’t just overlook the injury history.

Penny is insanely talented, but if it’s close, do you take the upside of Penny or the health and cheap 2 year contract of Sermon?

Not an easy decision in my view, especially with Swift and Gainwell as other options. 

4 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

I don't really think Mariota needs to be throwing to wrs who aren't likely to make the team.

People have brown smith OZ quez covey as the 5 wrs.  Occasionally OZ has been on the field,  had a few targets,  but the rest are auditioning for practice squad spots.   I'd maybe keep Ward as a 6th?  The competence is there, the ability to catch a high percentage of the time.  I'd give him practice squad at least. 

The Eagles need someone to help judge, measure, test the wrs and tes.   This isn't about making Mariota look good, or to try to put Mariota in a position that works the best, it's to see what wrs and tes can do.  Calcaterra doesn't catch overthrown balls, or balls thrown at a specific height that's too high.  He doesn't jump very high and he's shortish for a TE.   We know this because Mariota was throwing high balls.  If someone can jump very high, or be very tall, or both, it seems like the Eagles could use him, because McKee had trouble connecting with one of the taller wrs, who really wasn't quite tall enough.  

 

13 hours ago, Saltpeter said:

3 thoughts on Fields/Hurts.

1. Fields threw for like 150 yards per game last season. In year 2, Hurts threw for about 210 with no AJ Brown and rookie Devonta Smith. Hurts looked hopeless in the playoffs against a really good TB defense; Fields looked hopeless as a passer most of the year.

2. Loading up at WR is obviously a great way to help a young QB. Burrow and Hurts both shot to the moon when they got an elite group. Herbert started with a really good one. It's not an indictment on these guys that their GMs made good decisions.

3. I don't need my QB to make "wow" throws, although Jones is completely wrong about Hurts not making any. Give me the QB who consistently hits his WRs in stride than the guy who can throw it on a rope 50 yards in between 3 defenders a couple times per season. Might not be a more overrated trait in the league than QBs making "wow" throws.

Indeed. Joe Montana almost never made "wow" throws.

1 hour ago, TEW said:

I mean, just look at the pics from the combine. He’s not a big guy by NFL standards and his body is already well developed. 

 

Yup.

All I said is ten extra pounds couldn't hurt 

Can he put that on?

Who knows I'm not his personal trainer, but if he could ill maintain it could help him.

35 minutes ago, just relax said:

Indeed. Joe Montana almost never made "wow" throws.

I don't know about that, I mean he wasn't shooting lasers all over the field but his accuracy was pretty " wow" sometimes.

I think alot of coaches GMs etc...get obsessed with arm talent and a QBs ability to throw the ball a 100 mph and 100 miles.

Hurts doesn't have a cannon for an arm it's not a beebee gun but no one will confuse him for Marino, meanwhile a guy like Wentz had a howitzer, that throw he made against Washington in the back of the end zone where he just whipped it right past two defenders lodging the ball into the receivers chest was one of the most WOW throws I've ever seen.

Yet the guy with the howitzer is unemployed the other guy just led his team to a Superbowl.

Fields has all the physical tools to be successful, not sure he has the other requisite tools to be a successful QB, we'll see, if he puts it together he could be pretty scary.

7 hours ago, Outlaw said:

This is a typed out version of Rain Man’s mind. 

I'm sure RR buys his underwear at K -mart.

Or S- Mart?

 

44 minutes ago, just relax said:

Indeed. Joe Montana almost never made "wow" throws.

His best throw isn't even known for the throw.... it's called "The Catch", not "The Throw".

8 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

My guy, just love his game. He never doesn't pop when you watch him play. Was badly hoping the Eagles got him.

Yup remember there being a little bit of talk about this guy on the board during draft time.

Howie put all his eggs in the oft injured cheap guys 

Maybe Spears didn't have enough of an injury history for Howie🤷‍♂️

8 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You're preaching to the choir. Nothing is more important to a team's success than preparation. Preseason games are a tool available to help in that regard. Every season as of late, the Eagles begin defensively with a tackle slop-fest --- a direct result of doing everything they can to prevent injuries during camp and practice. The CBA limits just how much preparation time teams now have and it's much less than it was years ago. So to devalue the opportunity preseason games afford a team to get ready is actually kind of comical. If you think playing a player 5-10 snaps in a preseason game is a big risk then what are you doing to mitigate that risk during the actual season. You can't exactly not play your starters in the regular season to keep them healthy for the postseason. By being a dominant, winning team, you can perhaps get a week or two of rest at the end of a regular season if your postseason position is secure. So you want to make sure your team is ready in week 1.  But if you enter the season insufficiently prepared, and lose some games early due to sloppy play, you may have to expose your starters to every single regular season game at the end of the year and potentially play in one more postseason game than necessary if you don't lock up the bye. What is a bigger risk, a few plays in a preseason game or two or 2-3 entire extra meaningful games at the end of the year?

Now, for clarity, there are no guarantees. Playing starters for some of preseason won't guarantee you'll get a first round bye or lock that bye up early. But not playing them in preseason is no guarantee you'll avoid injuries either. You can avoid injuries at practice by deciding not to practice. All a preseason game is is a practice and it's the only kind of practice that follows a real game format completely. So, IMO, it's foolish to pass on the opportunity it affords. Other people live in perpetual fear of injuries and believe whole-heartedly in what Sirianni is doing and I'm not going to change any minds. 

Siri prefers joint practices, where there are more reps, and more controlled reps (situational play) than in an exhibition game, but conditions are also more controlled, so less likely to have an injury from some over enthusiastic rookie. They will have 3 of these practices, and Hurts probably will have a couple games worth of reps, whereas even when they played 4 exhibition games, the starts might get one game's worth of reps spread over a month.

This also allows him to distribute exhibition game reps among the players that they have to make decisions whether to keep, so those players get more game reps - in their case, the value of making better decisions balances against the risk of injury. But it's not like Lane Johnson has anything to prove.

15 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I don't know about that, I mean he wasn't shooting lasers all over the field but his accuracy was pretty " wow" sometimes.

I think alot of coaches GMs etc...get obsessed with arm talent and a QBs ability to throw the ball a 100 mph and 100 miles.

Hurts doesn't have a cannon for an arm it's not a beebee gun but no one will confuse him for Marino, meanwhile a guy like Wentz had a howitzer, that throw he made against Washington in the back of the end zone where he just whipped it right past two defenders lodging the ball into the receivers chest was one of the most WOW throws I've ever seen.

Yet the guy with the howitzer is unemployed the other guy just led his team to a Superbowl.

Fields has all the physical tools to be successful, not sure he has the other requisite tools to be a successful QB, we'll see, if he puts it together he could be pretty scary.

I tried explaining that when Hurts was drafted, and took a lot of flak around here. What impressed me with Hurts was that he went to Oklahoma and put up similar numbers, without time to learn the system, as the two previous QBs, both who went #1. He didn't have their arm/speed combo they did (Mayfield and Murray), but they also had a couple years in the system whereas Hurts was starting from scratch. Told me he had "it." Now at the time he was drafted, I saw him as a great backup to a starter made of glass, with starter upside - I thought his upside was top 10 if he continued to improve, and he had the intangibles that made that improvement a good bet. He's exceeded even my most optimistic expectations.

Fans tend to underrate intangibles, but I think they're key to players outside the top of the draft in any sport (those so talented they often succeed in spite of themselves).

Think about Dawkins (2nd rd), Peters (UDFA), Malaita (UDFA), Blankenship (UDFA) and so on.

Then think about the guys who flop like Watkins, Reagor, M Smith, et al.

If I'm drafting, I'm taking everyone off the board who lacks work ethic and motor, conversely I'm targeting guys with off the charts intangibles (work ethic and football IQ the most important) a little higher than their talent would suggest (but don't go crazy, players still need athleticism to succeed). Immature players can grow up, but players who lack competitiveness and love of the game won't take the extra steps needed to succeed. And you can only coach up "dumb" players so far.

6 hours ago, devpool said:

It would be very, very stupid to get rid of penny in favor of trey Fing sermon idc how many special teams snaps he takes. One guy who, while he has an extensive injury history, has actually shown talent in this league and the other who couldn't crack the roster last year.

Also insane that gainwell would start over either of swift or penny, he isn't on their level. It should be 

Swift/Penny

Penny/Swift 

Gainwell

Scott 

Let me clarify my kind words for ESP. I think the breakdown he posted was very helpful. His reasoning can be questioned however. 

I think they are giving Sermon every opportunity to show that he should be on the team rather than Boston Scott and that's why he's playing at KR and Penny isn't. If Sermon shows he can do what Boston Scott can do, that spot should be his.

49ers fans think we're a problem?

 

8 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You're preaching to the choir. Nothing is more important to a team's success than preparation. Preseason games are a tool available to help in that regard. Every season as of late, the Eagles begin defensively with a tackle slop-fest --- a direct result of doing everything they can to prevent injuries during camp and practice. The CBA limits just how much preparation time teams now have and it's much less than it was years ago. So to devalue the opportunity preseason games afford a team to get ready is actually kind of comical. If you think playing a player 5-10 snaps in a preseason game is a big risk then what are you doing to mitigate that risk during the actual season. You can't exactly not play your starters in the regular season to keep them healthy for the postseason. By being a dominant, winning team, you can perhaps get a week or two of rest at the end of a regular season if your postseason position is secure. So you want to make sure your team is ready in week 1.  But if you enter the season insufficiently prepared, and lose some games early due to sloppy play, you may have to expose your starters to every single regular season game at the end of the year and potentially play in one more postseason game than necessary if you don't lock up the bye. What is a bigger risk, a few plays in a preseason game or two or 2-3 entire extra meaningful games at the end of the year?

Now, for clarity, there are no guarantees. Playing starters for some of preseason won't guarantee you'll get a first round bye or lock that bye up early. But not playing them in preseason is no guarantee you'll avoid injuries either. You can avoid injuries at practice by deciding not to practice. All a preseason game is is a practice and it's the only kind of practice that follows a real game format completely. So, IMO, it's foolish to pass on the opportunity it affords. Other people live in perpetual fear of injuries and believe whole-heartedly in what Sirianni is doing and I'm not going to change any minds. 

They went 8-0 to open 2022.  Let's see how they do this year.  

6 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

They went 8-0 to open 2022.  Let's see how they do this year.  

It would seem there's no right or wrong answer to this issue, just personal preference.  The Chiefs played their starters a little in the preseason... they went 14-3.  Eagles didn't, they went 14-3.  Both can work.  Which then leads to the question of what fans prefer, and generally, most fans want to SEE their players play.  Knowing that they are working in joint practices is far less satisfying than getting to see it in front of your own eyes.

 

Imagine going to a restaurant, and you see this amazing meal on the menu.  You order it, then instead of bringing it out for you in a beautiful presentation for you to enjoy, someone tells you want the presentation looked like (Twitter reports from the beats).  And then when they finally bring it out to you it has been thrown into a blender and pureed.  (Preseason games... has all the elements of a real football, without any of what makes us truly love the game.)  And they ask you to just drink it from a straw.  Nutritionally it's the same, perhaps even better, because the blender might make some nutrients available that would normally be tougher to break down on your own.  And, that goes along with the idea that joint practices, which we can't see, are better for us, because the coaches can focus more on what they want and the injury risk is lessened, etc.   But that would be a far less satisfying way to eat a meal.   And that's what joint practices vs. preseason games feels like to me.  I don't get to see what I want to focus on, I don't get to see the top level players actually in pads going against their peers.  It is very unsatisfying. 

I’m going to go out on a limb here , and say Jordan Love has a better year than Fields 

15 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It would seem there's no right or wrong answer to this issue, just personal preference.  The Chiefs played their starters a little in the preseason... they went 14-3.  Eagles didn't, they went 14-3.  Both can work.  Which then leads to the question of what fans prefer, and generally, most fans want to SEE their players play.  Knowing that they are working in joint practices is far less satisfying than getting to see it in front of your own eyes.

 

Imagine going to a restaurant, and you see this amazing meal on the menu.  You order it, then instead of bringing it out for you in a beautiful presentation for you to enjoy, someone tells you want the presentation looked like (Twitter reports from the beats).  And then when they finally bring it out to you it has been thrown into a blender and pureed.  (Preseason games... has all the elements of a real football, without any of what makes us truly love the game.)  And they ask you to just drink it from a straw.  Nutritionally it's the same, perhaps even better, because the blender might make some nutrients available that would normally be tougher to break down on your own.  And, that goes along with the idea that joint practices, which we can't see, are better for us, because the coaches can focus more on what they want and the injury risk is lessened, etc.   But that would be a far less satisfying way to eat a meal.   And that's what joint practices vs. preseason games feels like to me.  I don't get to see what I want to focus on, I don't get to see the top level players actually in pads going against their peers.  It is very unsatisfying. 

The answer is almost always $$$. I would be interested to see the split in attendance and viewership numbers of these pre season games where starters are playing vs not. I’m sure there’s not much of a difference and the league isn’t losing much revenue.

I would much rather the starters get some playing time in preseason than none. I felt they were rusty week 1 in Detroit last year. There was lots of initial panic because it looked like Hurts didn’t learn from his bad habits the previous year (he repeatedly bailed on clean pockets and did his spinning around in the pocket). Hurts didn’t have a good day passing but week 1 was probably the worst time to get a matchup with Detroit with all of their hype. 
 

The birds have joint practice with the colts on August 22nd and then week 1 is September 10th against the pats. Starters will go almost 20 days without really playing. I think that’s quite a long time and expect them to struggle in the 1st half against the pats before they start putting it together. 

11 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

I’m going to go out on a limb here , and say Jordan Love has a better year than Fields 

As soon as Love started carving up Gannon’s defense, I knew he had the potential to be an above average QB. Love has the higher floor, we will see how he does this year. Fields is an amazing runner, and thought he was the most frustrating for our defense to contain. Fields really needs to learn to pass better. If he can even be an average passer, he can be very good.

1 hour ago, Utebird said:

I don't know about that, I mean he wasn't shooting lasers all over the field but his accuracy was pretty " wow" sometimes.

I think alot of coaches GMs etc...get obsessed with arm talent and a QBs ability to throw the ball a 100 mph and 100 miles.

Hurts doesn't have a cannon for an arm it's not a beebee gun but no one will confuse him for Marino, meanwhile a guy like Wentz had a howitzer, that throw he made against Washington in the back of the end zone where he just whipped it right past two defenders lodging the ball into the receivers chest was one of the most WOW throws I've ever seen.

Yet the guy with the howitzer is unemployed the other guy just led his team to a Superbowl.

Fields has all the physical tools to be successful, not sure he has the other requisite tools to be a successful QB, we'll see, if he puts it together he could be pretty scary.

Montana's ball placement and timing were peerless. That's what made him so great.