4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Reach items on the top shelf at the grocery store.

J Mailata has a rugby background, he can punt.

1 minute ago, Wentz_Era said:

J Mailata has a rugby background, he can punt.

Might even be able to do a drop kick. 

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Can you fill me in on this a bit?   How old was he and how old was she at the time it was supposed to have happened?

https://www.nytimes.com/article/matt-araiza-rape-lawsuit-buffalo-bills.html 
She was 17 when it happened. 

A reason why the criminal case was thrown out was that she was essentially too intoxicated at the time to give accurate testimony. 

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I actually looked up all the pairings since 1980 added up there receptions yards tds av.not sure where it went I can't find it right now.

A lot of times the pairings were carried by one WR like T.O and pinkston with TO having most yards rec And tds by a wide margin.

Quick and Carter while talented at individual times together weren't that great in that quick was on the down side of career and Carter was young, his biggest year with the birds was barely 700 yards.

Barnett and Williams best year statistically was there rookie years as the next 5 years when one of them played really well the other was hurt or Randall was hurt which really hurt them both 

Carmichael and Smith were pretty but smiths best years were in the downside of Carmichael's.

Desean and Riley Cooper were surprisingly good for one year

And one pairing you didn't mention that were really good for 1 season were Irving fryar and Chris T Jones ☹️

I think Brown and Smith though are at the top.

One would have to go back to the 60s team with McDonald and Walston  to see a comparable pairing and its tough to compare those olden days teams with today.

Heck it's tough to compare today's game with 10 years ago 

 

Yeah, I was looking, primarily for guys that played multiple years together, which is why Fryar and Jones weren't included.

 

I guess it was Carmichael/Smith over Barnett/Williams... by a hair.  Quick and Carter were clearly the most talented pair to take the field at the same time, but neither was at their best when they were together and they were rarely together.  Quick is a guy that should have been a HoF WR if he could have stayed healthy.  Weird thing is... he wasn't the guy the Eagles wanted in the 1982 draft, but the Bills jumped the Eagles and drafted Perry Tuttle.  So, the Eagles settled for Quick.

15 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So much disrespect to Thrash and Pinkston and Charles Johnson and Torrence Small!!!

 

On a serious note, I think that this is unquestionably the best duo we've had... but who is Number 2?

Maclin/Jackson
Barnett/Williams
Quick/Carter
Carmichael/Charlie Smith

Found it 

Since 1980 there have been 5 pairings that have had 2000+combined  yards And a couple will surprise you.

1996 Fryar Chris T Jones. 2054 yards 158 rec 16 tds 13yd av.

2010 Jackson Maclin 2020 yards 117 16 tds 17.2 av. 

2013 Jackson Cooper 2167 yards 17 tds 16.7 av. 

2014 maclin Matthews 2190 yards  18 tds 14.6 av.

2022 brown Smith 2692 yards 18 tds 14.7 av..

Here's some surprising pairings.

1985 Quick and Kenny Jackson 1939 yards 113 rec 12 tds 17.2 av.

Brown and stallworth 1541 yards not that impressive, 84 rec 13 tds 18.3 ave 

18.3 ave is the highest average. in the last 40 years eagles pairings 

 

 

12 minutes ago, metal said:

Here's what his lawyer said

"Mr. Araiza remains unemployed. There are football teams that want him. They will not have a try out until (the plaintiff) voluntarily dismiss(es) this case or he gets a verdict in this courtroom,” Araiza attorney Dick Semerdjian said Friday during a hearing in Braner’s downtown San Diego courtroom. 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/story/2023-08-04/attorneys-for-punter-araiza-press-for-quick-trial-date-in-civil-case-alleging-rape

So it's not him, it's the teams that are waiting for this to be settled. Either way I don't expect to see him signed before this is out of the way.

It seems weird that teams would be hinging on this civil suit. The burden of proof for criminal and civil cases is very different. The process is different. If he's found liable in the civil case, but the DA decided there wasn't enough(or strong enough) evidence against him, they'd value the result of the civil process but not the criminal process it seems weird.

Say he is found liable. Then what, no one offers him a job? That doesn't mean guilt, civil cases are more subjective than criminal cases. In a criminal case, it needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt, so if a jury does their civic duty, it should be very hard to convict based on the burden of proof. In civil cases, it's a preponderance of evidence. Meaning that there needs to be a sum of evidence. In civil cases, the decision is more "What is most likely?" The burden of proof is a lot less. You can be found liable in a civil case and not have committed the act.

There has to be some standard when it comes what to value in the NFL, and I think it should begin and end based on if a player is criminally responsible. Once you bring civil cases into it, you're getting into a lot murkier waters.

Cunningham might actually be decent. Coverage stats have been bad recently, but he should be a good 2 down guy. Physical, complements Dean's lack of length. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

It seems weird that teams would be hinging on this civil suit. The burden of proof for criminal and civil cases is very different. The process is different. If he's found liable in the civil case, but the DA decided there wasn't enough(or strong enough) evidence against him, they'd value the result of the civil process but not the criminal process it seems weird.

Say he is found liable. Then what, no one offers him a job? That doesn't mean guilt, civil cases are more subjective than criminal cases. In a criminal case, it needs to be beyond a reasonable doubt, so if a jury does their civic duty, it should be very hard to convict based on the burden of proof. In civil cases, it's a preponderance of evidence. Meaning that there needs to be a sum of evidence. In civil cases, the decision is more "What is most likely?" The burden of proof is a lot less. You can be found liable in a civil case and not have committed the act.

There has to be some standard when it comes what to value in the NFL, and I think it should begin and end based on if a player is criminally responsible. Once you bring civil cases into it, you're getting into a lot murkier waters.

No team wants that as a distraction, especially if it’s coming from a punter.

 

Remember, a court doesn’t ever say you are innocent.

30 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Reach items on the top shelf at the grocery store.

Going to need to see his RAS and vertical score before I believe you 

25 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

J Mailata has a rugby background, he can punt.

Lol yeah forwards dont kick they leave that to the back line.

Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if he can punt 

8 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

No team wants that as a distraction, especially if it’s coming from a punter.

 

Remember, a court doesn’t ever say you are innocent.

I think that sucks and is terrible for the players. If the prosecutor comes out and says unequivocally: "Evidence shows Matt Araiza was not at the house at the time of the rape." This isn't even a case of "We think he did it, but we didn't believe we had strong enough evidence to take it to trial." They flat out said ostensibly that the evidence shows he had nothing to do with it. Yet teams might be willing to not touch a player based on what a civil case "finds."

Anyone can sue anybody for anything. Lawsuits happen all the time. Often for reasons that are total BS. I think it absolutely sucks for players that all it takes is someone to be sued by someone and they become unhirable. To me, that sets a bad precedent. What if it's found in his favor? Then he basically just lost over a year of his playing career over nothing. That doesn't sit well with me.

I don't believe the civil case would be a distraction. They don't carry the spotlight like criminal cases. Whenever he winds up in a court room, it'll likely happen without anyone knowing until it hits the headlines.

I still think they should bring him in. Can always cut him later and re-sign Siposs if the worst came to absolute worst. No one's going to sign Siposs, he'll remain on the FA market if cut.

25 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah, I was looking, primarily for guys that played multiple years together, which is why Fryar and Jones weren't included.

 

I guess it was Carmichael/Smith over Barnett/Williams... by a hair.  Quick and Carter were clearly the most talented pair to take the field at the same time, but neither was at their best when they were together and they were rarely together.  Quick is a guy that should have been a HoF WR if he could have stayed healthy.  Weird thing is... he wasn't the guy the Eagles wanted in the 1982 draft, but the Bills jumped the Eagles and drafted Perry Tuttle.  So, the Eagles settled for Quick.

Carmichael And Smith best statistical year together was 1980 .

They both had a bit over 800 yards 

1640 yards 95 receptions  12 tds 17.2 av.

Barnett and Williams who are my favorite pairing ever because I became an eagles fan the same time super tecmo bowl came out.

Best statistical season together 

1994 1940 yards 136 receptions only 8 tds 14.2 av.

 

Charlie Smith was about as loved by Eagles fans during his career as Todd Pinkston was during his. Basically, fans pretty much thought he sucked. He was okay, I guess. But I find it funny to see his pairing with Carmichael as being particularly noteworthy.

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Carmichael And Smith best statistical year together was 1980 .

They both had a bit over 800 yards 

1640 yards 95 receptions  12 tds 17.2 av.

Barnett and Williams who are my favorite pairing ever because I became an eagles fan the same time super tecmo bowl came out.

1994 1940 yards 136 receptions only 8 tds 14.2 av.

 

Yes, if you go strictly by the stats, Barnett/Williams edge them out.  However, the 1980 team was a run first (and run second, honestly) team.  The era of 1980 was a lot more 'ground and pound', so they get a little bit of a pass for the stats being lower given the state of the NFL back then... and then they get a boost for team success.  Not to mention that Carmichael is a HoF WR.  So... 🤷‍♂️. 

Just now, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Charlie Smith was about as loved by Eagles fans during his career as Todd Pinkston was during his. Basically, fans pretty much thought he sucked. He was okay, I guess. But I find it funny to see his pairing with Carmichael as being particularly noteworthy.

Well, since we are discussing pairings... he gets the benefit of riding Carmichael's coattails.    

 

But, since you are here... who would you put as the No.2 pairing?

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yes, if you go strictly by the stats, Barnett/Williams edge them out.  However, the 1980 team was a run first (and run second, honestly) team.  The era of 1980 was a lot more 'ground and pound', so they get a little bit of a pass for the stats being lower given the state of the NFL back then... and then they get a boost for team success.  Not to mention that Carmichael is a HoF WR.  So... 🤷‍♂️. 

Yup totally agree.

In my opinion Quick is the eagles best ever WR but sadly his best years he was playing along side and old over the hill Carmichael a bust Kenny Jackson then was coming off injuries with cris Carter 

But yeah if he hadn't played on cement covered carpet he's most likely in the HOF.

That vet turf ended way too many guys careers early, except for Irvin, that guy can suck it...😂

5 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup totally agree.

In my opinion Quick is the eagles best ever WR but sadly his best years he was playing along side and old over the hill Carmichael a bust Kenny Jackson then was coming off injuries with cris Carter 

But yeah if he hadn't played on cement covered carpet he's most likely in the HOF.

That vet turf ended way too many guys careers early, except for Irvin, that guy can suck it...😂

Wendell Davis was the worst.  Still have no idea how it happened, but he blew out both knees at the same time.

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Well, since we are discussing pairings... he gets the benefit of riding Carmichael's coattails.    

 

But, since you are here... who would you put as the No.2 pairing?

I'd probably say Jackson and Maclin 

In 2010 Jackson had 1000+ and Maclin was just short with 964.

They played a good amount of years together so they aren't a one off like a bunch of other pairs and they were productive and explosive.

Oddly they both had their best seasons with Kelly while either one of them were hurt or gone  Chip Kelly😡

That 2010 team though was so fun and filled with so many what ifs...☹️

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Wendell Davis was the worst.  Still have no idea how it happened, but he blew out both knees at the same time.

That's pretty harsh, I didn't know that about Wendell Davis ..

 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Wendell Davis was the worst.  Still have no idea how it happened, but he blew out both knees at the same time.

 

32 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Cunningham might actually be decent. Coverage stats have been bad recently, but he should be a good 2 down guy. Physical, complements Dean's lack of length. 

Couldn’t start on the Texans. This is pure rationalizing.

27 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Charlie Smith was about as loved by Eagles fans during his career as Todd Pinkston was during his. Basically, fans pretty much thought he sucked. He was okay, I guess. But I find it funny to see his pairing with Carmichael as being particularly noteworthy.

That 1980 team they both played well 

Both had a little over 800 yards and made the super bowl 

I was just a wee little one back then so I don't know how the fans felt I'm basing anything before 1989 off stats 

 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

Forgetting modern standards for a second, why would a team want to put up with all of that for a punter?

Here is an excerpt from a really good article on the impact of a punter:

Quote

We can see, measured in this way, the placement of a punt as having a measurable effect on scoring defense. With a p-value below .001, we see that a one yard change in average punt placement correlates to a .4 point fluctuation in ppg allowed on defense. This helps explain roughly 6.8% of the variance of defensive performance. While this isn’t world breaking, the effect is strong and measurable.

………………………

The value of good punting

We can see from the above analysis that punting’s quantitative effect may be larger than we often give credit for, though it’s also interesting to note that even the best punting performances over the last five years account for, at most, about one win above average. 
 

https://www.fieldgulls.com/platform/amp/2018/5/7/17327282/punt-wins-above-average
 

In a sport with only 17 regular season games and at most 4 playoff games, 1 extra win is significant. 

8 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

I'm sure RBs were on their radar but I wouldn't trade Steen or Brown for him.

https://ras.football/ras-compare/?&p1=23189&p2=23071&pos=RB

 

Ras compare Spears v VanSumeren

all of VanSumeren's numbers are better except shuttle.
 

231 v 201  

29 v 18

4.45 v 4.54

1.52 v 1.57

Overall,  a 9.89 Ras for VanSumeren, a 7.51 for Spears.

VanSumeren was a Fullback for Michigan.  At one point he weighed 253 at Michigan.  Scored a rushing TD there, had a few other carries.  Was the backup to Ben Mason, now of the Ravens, who he tackled last week.  I see no reason why a Fullback for MIchigan can't be a Fullback for the Eagles, even if he switched positions in college to Linebacker.  The Eagles don't have a Fullback, perhaps teams would like to have that player on occasion, but they wouldn't use a Fullback enough to justify the roster spot. 

I think VanSumeren makes the 53 as one of the Special Teams linebackers.  Last year 4 LBs didn't play much but played a lot of special teams.  Bradley was one, and he was hurt.  K Johnson who is out with an appendectomy right now.  Dean was core special teams last year and I would think not this year.  Ellis was one, and if he was a starter that would create another hole on special teams.  I think they have a need for an additional special teams LB, and that would be VanSumeren.  He's probably near the back of a long line of ILBs for playing time at ILB.  Dean playing 100% of the snaps or near it.  A vet at the other starting spot.  Last year White got about 75% of the snaps.  Most seem to be saying Cunningham for starter.  Some have been less than impressed with Morrow and Jack.  I think they keep one of those 2.  And Elliss, and I think they give snaps to Elliss.  And VanSumeren.  He has maybe Cunningham, Elliss, Jack/Morrow in front of him.  He was wearing the green dot so he could be a Dean backup.  But few snaps on defense probably this year, Elliss wouldn't get a lot of snaps.  

So VanSumeren is mostly sitting on defense and playing a lot of special teams.  He has time to be a Fullback, a short yardage running back, a wide receiver (a high paying job).  A TE2,  if the Eagles typically go with 2 WRs and 2 TEs.  TE2 is a special position that could have slot wrs or rbs or tes or running QBs or freakbeast defense or OLs playing it