14 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

The one Debbie Downer on this team is special teams. Between coaching and players shaping up to be a problem

Yeah, I get loyalty to staff but come on Nick

6 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

The one Debbie Downer on this team is special teams. Between coaching and players shaping up to be a problem

Their worst move of the off-season wasn't addressing LB, it was bringing back Michael Clay as ST coach/not brining in a punter. We know the Eagles don't value LB so we were prepared for the lack of movement. The Eagles have ALWAYS valued ST though and it made no sense to bring Clay back as a coach or to bring in another punter.

With a deep of a roster as the Eagles have, a competent ST coach should be able to have a good ST unit. They have one of the best snappers and kickers in the game. No questions asked, nothing needs to be touched there. Losing McPhearson and Bradley hurts too. 

Clay has his work cut out for himself.

5 hours ago, TEW said:

I was thinking about the non eagles players as a comparison.

Okay, I'll oblige.

Here's the deal with doing something like that. You simply cannot look at all games the same. Games that are played in Denver are going to be different from games played in a place like Green Bay or Buffalo. Balls will fly in altitude. Balls will not fly in cold weather. Balls will also do much better in domed stadiums. Balls will do worse in windy conditions. So you can't use data from places like that to compare universally.

What I consider to be the "most fair" way of evaluating hangtime in Eagles games is to simply used the opposing teams average hangtime. Same elements. Same temperature. Same wind. Etcetera.

That being said, if you go back TOO FAR, hangtimes can be a bit misleading. For example, the average hangtime of Eagles opponents in 2000 was 4.16. In 2001 it was 4.12. In 2002 it was 4.01. Those numbers look pretty bad compared to today's NFL game. Things started to change in the overall kicking game around the same time Tony Romo dropped that snap. (I love that play!)

Okay, so...from 2010 through 2022 I have 1,063 punts timed from Eagles opponents. The average hangtime of those punts comes out to be almost exactly 4.40. It's about 4.3975823142, give or take. But let's use 4.40 as a general guide. In games the Eagles play, with the weather conditions the way they will normally be (granted you're going to get a game or two inside a dome at some point during the year, and you're going to have good weather outdoor games early in the season), an average hangtime ought to be around 4.40. Can we agree on that?

Okay, here are Eagles punter hangtimes in all those seasons from 2010 forward:

2010 Rocca 4.51

2011 Henry 4.38

2012 McBriar 4.30

2013 Jones 4.34

2014 Jones 4.34

2015 Jones 4.45

2016 Jones 4.38

2017 Jones 4.22

2018 Johnston 4.25

2019 Johnston 4.29

2020 Johnston 4.46

2021 Siposs 4.33

2022 Siposs (????)

From this you can see that the Eagles punting game for whatever reason has almost always lagged behind their opponents when it comes to hangtime. We've truly never had a standout punter in my over fifty years of being an Eagles fan. I absolutely laugh at anyone who thinks Sean Landeta was, by the way. His average hangtime was just under 4.10.

It's funny that the best year was Sav Rocca's final year with the team. At the time Eagles fans hated him too. They're fickle that way, y'know.

You can see that Donnie Jones really started to decline at the end. The worst Eagles punting year for hangtime (4.22) just happened to be the Super Bowl winning season. But they won 16 games and the Lombardi so no one cared that their punting game wasn't all that terrific. And they moved on from him afterwards. Well, he technically retired but it's obvious that retirement was thrust upon him since he came back for some other team the following year.

All that being said, with a reasonable average being around 4.40, and the Eagles consistently being worse than that (by design perhaps with an emphasis more on directional punting?), and Siposs hitting the 4.33 mark in his first year, I ask anyone to guess what his average hangtime was last year.

Incidentally Brett Kern averaged an amazing 3.88 last year. Amazing, as in how could a guy that bad actually be playing in games that matter? You'd surely not want to have someone that pathetic play in the Super Bowl. Even if you could get someone coming off an injury who may not quite be 100%, you'd probably be better off going that route.

 

41 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

The one Debbie Downer on this team is special teams. Between coaching and players shaping up to be a problem

LB is a wait and see that could become a Debbie Downer.  Let's hope not though.  

 

Like I said a while ago though... Elliott kicks it through the end zone... no worries on kickoff coverage.  Punter puts it out of bounds, and no worries on punt coverage.  That puts the onus on the offense to move the ball and limit punt opportunities though.  Personally, I'd rather that than rely on our coverage.   And then there are the return units.  Key - just don't turn the ball over.  Yardage is irrelevant.  Again, the onus goes back on the offense to make up for that.  But, that's what this team is built for.  Ball control and moving the ball up and down the field.  Let's get it done and not let the Achilles heel of the team cause a problem.  Every time this offense is forced to punt, that's a major win for our opponent, we need to limit that, and that might also mean going for it on 4th down more frequently than we might be used to, and in spots on the field where it would normally make very little sense traditionally.

Who are teams that have multiple good punters we should be on look out for come cut day?

4 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Okay, I'll oblige.

Here's the deal with doing something like that. You simply cannot look at all games the same. Games that are played in Denver are going to be different from games played in a place like Green Bay or Buffalo. Balls will fly in altitude. Balls will not fly in cold weather. Balls will also do much better in domed stadiums. Balls will do worse in windy conditions. So you can't use data from places like that to compare universally.

What I consider to be the "most fair" way of evaluating hangtime in Eagles games is to simply used the opposing teams average hangtime. Same elements. Same temperature. Same wind. Etcetera.

That being said, if you go back TOO FAR, hangtimes can be a bit misleading. For example, the average hangtime of Eagles opponents in 2000 was 4.16. In 2001 it was 4.12. In 2002 it was 4.01. Those numbers look pretty bad compared to today's NFL game. Things started to change in the overall kicking game around the same time Tony Romo dropped that snap. (I love that play!)

Okay, so...from 2010 through 2022 I have 1,063 punts timed from Eagles opponents. The average hangtime of those punts comes out to be almost exactly 4.40. It's about 4.3975823142, give or take. But let's use 4.40 as a general guide. In games the Eagles play, with the weather conditions the way they will normally be (granted you're going to get a game or two inside a dome at some point during the year, and you're going to have good weather outdoor games early in the season), an average hangtime ought to be around 4.40. Can we agree on that?

Okay, here are Eagles punter hangtimes in all those seasons from 2010 forward:

2010 Rocca 4.51

2011 Henry 4.38

2012 McBriar 4.30

2013 Jones 4.34

2014 Jones 4.34

2015 Jones 4.45

2016 Jones 4.38

2017 Jones 4.22

2018 Johnston 4.25

2019 Johnston 4.29

2020 Johnston 4.46

2021 Siposs 4.33

2022 Siposs (????)

From this you can see that the Eagles punting game for whatever reason has almost always lagged behind their opponents when it comes to hangtime. We've truly never had a standout punter in my over fifty years of being an Eagles fan. I absolutely laugh at anyone who thinks Sean Landeta was, by the way. His average hangtime was just under 4.10.

It's funny that the best year was Sav Rocca's final year with the team. At the time Eagles fans hated him too. They're fickle that way, y'know.

You can see that Donnie Jones really started to decline at the end. The worst Eagles punting year for hangtime (4.22) just happened to be the Super Bowl winning season. But they won 16 games and the Lombardi so no one cared that their punting game wasn't all that terrific. And they moved on from him afterwards. Well, he technically retired but it's obvious that retirement was thrust upon him since he came back for some other team the following year.

All that being said, with a reasonable average being around 4.40, and the Eagles consistently being worse than that (by design perhaps with an emphasis more on directional punting?), and Siposs hitting the 4.33 mark in his first year, I ask anyone to guess what his average hangtime was last year.

Incidentally Brett Kern averaged an amazing 3.88 last year. Amazing, as in how could a guy that bad actually be playing in games that matter? You'd surely not want to have someone that pathetic play in the Super Bowl. Even if you could get someone coming off an injury who may not quite be 100%, you'd probably be better off going that route.

 

Landeta absolutely was a standout punter for Philadelphia.  The only issue is that he did while wearing Red and Gold.

36 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Their worst move of the off-season wasn't addressing LB, it was bringing back Michael Clay as ST coach/not brining in a punter. We know the Eagles don't value LB so we were prepared for the lack of movement. The Eagles have ALWAYS valued ST though and it made no sense to bring Clay back as a coach or to bring in another punter.

With a deep of a roster as the Eagles have, a competent ST coach should be able to have a good ST unit. They have one of the best snappers and kickers in the game. No questions asked, nothing needs to be touched there. Losing McPhearson and Bradley hurts too. 

Clay has his work cut out for himself.

They did bring in another punter, though.

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

They did bring in another punter, though.

Do you think Zentner was looked at as real competition though?

Just now, bpac55 said:

Do you think Zentner was looked at as real competition though?

How did he get nickname of Legatron and suck so bad?

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

Do you think Zentner was looked at as real competition though?

Yes, I think they wanted him to win the job.  He just stunk.

Rick Gosselin does ST rankings every year.  The Eagles ranked 31st last season.  The SB Champion Chiefs ranked 32nd.

The arguably worst team in the league, Texans, ranked 1st.

https://rickgosselin.com/rick-gosselins-2022-nfl-special-teams-rankings/

I have 46 locks / near-locks on the final 53.

    

I have 7 (my choices bolded) from the these 13.

 

I remember when we would be looking forward to see who other teams cut to fill out the bottom of our roster.  We still are...but just for a punter.

                                                              

5 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I have 46 locks / near-locks on the final 53.

    

I have 7 (my choices bolded) from the these 13.

                                                              

Not sure Scott, Evans are locks or anywhere close. Scott is safer than Evans. Wallace will be kept over Evans most likely.

I think that Ricks has also played himself onto the roster with Zech hurt - he won't make it through waivers. Just unsure who would be backup nickel. Interested to see if Bradberry gets nickel snaps if Maddox gets hurt.

Could see Marlon T swapped for another player via trade. I think he's shown enough and is coming from a deep DT room here.

Inside the Birds fell off so bad, you can tell they barely pay attention to the team. First Caplan had no idea what people were talking about when it came to Nolan Smith and his old pec injury he just had last season at Georgia. Then a few minutes later he suggests the Eagles have a decision to make with McKee and why it might not be a good idea to put him on waivers. 

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

 McKee and why it might not be a good idea to put him on waivers. 

Huh?  The 3rd QB doesn’t count as a roster spot this season, right? 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

Huh?  The 3rd QB doesn’t count as a roster spot this season, right? 

It does count on the 53 just not on gameday 46

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Franklin has those on the non-Eagles punter in each game.  Seek and ye shall find.

I was not aware.

 

4 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Nope

Really? I certainly think it would be.

13 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

rarely fumbling is good.  I think Covey is a better punt returner.  "Solid" isn't as good as you think it is. Exceptional is a word I didn't use.  But was he really harmful?  Maybe he was bad before I was paying attention. 

Is Nolan Smith an option for Punt Return? 

As our Special Teams guru has pointed out, there are "hidden yards” that are part of the assessment of punt returners, but those hidden yards are not tracked.  Hidden yards happen when a returner fails to field/catch a punt and it rolls for X yards further beyond its initial impact spot ( the spot where it could have been caught).  IIRC Ward is below average in punt trajectory anticipation and tracking, so he lets an above average proportion of punts go uncaught, resulting in a meaningful number of hidden yards that make tel Offense’s starting field position worse than it would have been if the punt were caught by the returner.

53 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Okay, I'll oblige.

Here's the deal with doing something like that. You simply cannot look at all games the same. Games that are played in Denver are going to be different from games played in a place like Green Bay or Buffalo. Balls will fly in altitude. Balls will not fly in cold weather. Balls will also do much better in domed stadiums. Balls will do worse in windy conditions. So you can't use data from places like that to compare universally.

What I consider to be the "most fair" way of evaluating hangtime in Eagles games is to simply used the opposing teams average hangtime. Same elements. Same temperature. Same wind. Etcetera.

That being said, if you go back TOO FAR, hangtimes can be a bit misleading. For example, the average hangtime of Eagles opponents in 2000 was 4.16. In 2001 it was 4.12. In 2002 it was 4.01. Those numbers look pretty bad compared to today's NFL game. Things started to change in the overall kicking game around the same time Tony Romo dropped that snap. (I love that play!)

Okay, so...from 2010 through 2022 I have 1,063 punts timed from Eagles opponents. The average hangtime of those punts comes out to be almost exactly 4.40. It's about 4.3975823142, give or take. But let's use 4.40 as a general guide. In games the Eagles play, with the weather conditions the way they will normally be (granted you're going to get a game or two inside a dome at some point during the year, and you're going to have good weather outdoor games early in the season), an average hangtime ought to be around 4.40. Can we agree on that?

Okay, here are Eagles punter hangtimes in all those seasons from 2010 forward:

2010 Rocca 4.51

2011 Henry 4.38

2012 McBriar 4.30

2013 Jones 4.34

2014 Jones 4.34

2015 Jones 4.45

2016 Jones 4.38

2017 Jones 4.22

2018 Johnston 4.25

2019 Johnston 4.29

2020 Johnston 4.46

2021 Siposs 4.33

2022 Siposs (????)

From this you can see that the Eagles punting game for whatever reason has almost always lagged behind their opponents when it comes to hangtime. We've truly never had a standout punter in my over fifty years of being an Eagles fan. I absolutely laugh at anyone who thinks Sean Landeta was, by the way. His average hangtime was just under 4.10.

It's funny that the best year was Sav Rocca's final year with the team. At the time Eagles fans hated him too. They're fickle that way, y'know.

You can see that Donnie Jones really started to decline at the end. The worst Eagles punting year for hangtime (4.22) just happened to be the Super Bowl winning season. But they won 16 games and the Lombardi so no one cared that their punting game wasn't all that terrific. And they moved on from him afterwards. Well, he technically retired but it's obvious that retirement was thrust upon him since he came back for some other team the following year.

All that being said, with a reasonable average being around 4.40, and the Eagles consistently being worse than that (by design perhaps with an emphasis more on directional punting?), and Siposs hitting the 4.33 mark in his first year, I ask anyone to guess what his average hangtime was last year.

Incidentally Brett Kern averaged an amazing 3.88 last year. Amazing, as in how could a guy that bad actually be playing in games that matter? You'd surely not want to have someone that pathetic play in the Super Bowl. Even if you could get someone coming off an injury who may not quite be 100%, you'd probably be better off going that route.

 

Interesting!

Agreed that there are variables which will impact the numbers. It still seems like we could do significantly better. Directional punts are generally used from mid field to pin a team in their own red zone. I haven’t noticed us using them as a general strategy, but I suppose our offense has been above average over the last decade.

13 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Inside the Birds fell off so bad, you can tell they barely pay attention to the team. First Caplan had no idea what people were talking about when it came to Nolan Smith and his old pec injury he just had last season at Georgia. Then a few minutes later he suggests the Eagles have a decision to make with McKee and why it might not be a good idea to put him on waivers. 

The only decision is where they should put his statue.  He's a lock for the roster.

Oh, poor Sam Cosmi doesn't grasp just how seriously the Ravens take it. They'll put Lamar in during the 4th quarter vs the bubble guys to win the game if they have to.

26 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I have 46 locks / near-locks on the final 53.

    

I have 7 (my choices bolded) from the these 13.

 

I remember when we would be looking forward to see who other teams cut to fill out the bottom of our roster.  We still are...but just for a punter.

                                                              

I would cut Ngata and Andrews and add Garner and Goodrich. I think both Ngata and Andrews would be fine on the practice squad, whereas Goodrich should be the backup nickel and they clearly liked him last year when they signed him to a big UDFA contract. Garner has flashed on special teams, so keeping him around for that might be a good idea.

Did the EMB change colors?

Or do I need to seek medical assistance immediately?

1 hour ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Rick Gosselin does ST rankings every year.  The Eagles ranked 31st last season.  The SB Champion Chiefs ranked 32nd.

The arguably worst team in the league, Texans, ranked 1st.

https://rickgosselin.com/rick-gosselins-2022-nfl-special-teams-rankings/

That's b/c bad teams get more ST reps and improve! 🤣