14 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Since the Taylor trade is hypothetically on the table, I’m willing to give various scenarios some thought. So here goes:

(1) The idea of Watkins being part of the package has some interesting wrinkles.  Specifically, the potential of Swift as a rotational slot receiver has merit.  Zaccheaus does pencil in as the primary slot receiver, and a combination of Zaccheaus and Swift as the slot platoon isn’t much of a downgrade from a Watkins and Zaccheaus platoon.

(2) Pretty clearly Gainwell would be part of the trade package.  I like him a lot, but swapping him out for Taylor is a no brainer, especially if Steichen likes him … which he should.

(3) including Driscoll in the trade makes no sense at all.  Our O-line depth is not as robust as we want it to be with Driscoll.  It would be even more suspect if he were gone.  But if Stoutland okays the inclusion of Driscoll, who am I to argue.

(4) I would be interested to hear what other Offensive pieces/players Steichen might like.  Any thoughts?

(5) The more current player value that can be included in the package the lower the draft pick will need to be.  If it can get to be as low as a 3rd round pick, I’m ready to pull the trigger.  Even if it is a one year rental, Taylor will yield a comp pick in return when he signs elsewhere.

I think you’d be looking at a 2nd round pick + Gainwell as the trade package.  Colts will get a 2nd round plus if there are in fact multiple suitors.  Taylor’s contract status makes it extremely unlikely a 1st round pick would be on the table — in addition to the current condition of his ankle. 

Random thought that will annoy some folks who want him gone yesterday. But after rewatching the Browns game, I kinda thought that Josiah Scott played pretty well. With the injury to McPhearson, I would think that Scott is almost a lock to make the team due to his experience and his ability to play inside.

VanSumeren flashed a little more than I had thought but I still question his tackling (even though he makes some). On that disgusting play where about five guys missed sacking Kellen Mond only to see him rush for a first down, he was the primary whiffer.

Ojomo looks like the real deal. I don't think Jenarius Robinson has shown enough. Tarron Jackson looked better, though I kinda think the ship has sailed on that guy ever being a guy. Truth be told, I'm a bit dubious about our defensive end depth. And I think it's just spiteful folly to want Barnett gone. He's really the only depth end we have who can actually play, unless you want to count Patrick Johnson.

I'm still kinda in the Justin Evans support group, though I wouldn't be shocked if he gets cut. Still think he's better than K'Von Wallace.

Hated the one short yardage run by Kennedy Brooks where all he needed was a yard and he had a clear opportunity to do so yet decided to cut back and got stopped short. To me that's a lack of vision and awareness. And a slow-ish back like him can't afford to be like that. I'm not even sure he's a practice squad guy. They'll surely have a back on the PS, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone they add from another team's final cuts.

It feels like every year there is always one or two undrafted free agents who make the team that catch us completely off guard. "Oh wow, THAT guy actually impressed them? I had no idea!" I wonder who it will be.

I wouldn't be surprised if Street or Tuipulotu gets traded for a late round pick. You can't keep everyone and both of those guys are NFL caliber players. Someone would want one of them.

Yeah, I'm rambling. Oh, and I'm not going to the game tomorrow night. And I'm not looking forward to watching another installment of the Ian Book show.

On 8/22/2023 at 9:28 PM, SkippyX said:

This is kinda fun how bad you are at this. (I know the concept of time is difficult for some but being off by 36 months is something else)

First, they did not bring in a replace Tannehill QB in 2020 after that 2019 AFCCG. Mariota left and they drafted Logan Woodside in round 7. 🤣

Mariota spent 2 years in Vegas and 1 in Atlanta. I was both aware of reality and was able to double check this.

The next year was Woodside again or some 2016 draft journeyman scrub 

After the 2021 season in the 2022 draft they took a possible 1st round QB project who fell to round 3. He was awful. No way was he 2021 competition.

In the 2023 draft which is now 40 months after that 2019 AFCCG they finally spent an early 2nd round pick on a QB with Tannehill at age 35 and on an expiring contract.

 

 

 

Nobody said anything about Mariota. We were talking about Tanny, so please focus.

3 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Remember when Howie traded a 3rd Tate and let him walk as a free agent in the offseason? In a year when the team was not a contender?

This year the team is a contender. This player is far better than Tate. The contract will fit under this years cap. The pick will be higher than a 3rd but the pick surplus is available. If they think Taylor Swift can lead them to a super bowl...

The Colts are asking for first round value. We aren’t trading a first, or a combo of picks equal to a first, and then handing Taylor a big contract on top of it.

If the Colts will take a 3rd and Taylor will play on the last year of his rookie deal, then there is a chance.

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

I think you’d be looking at a 2nd round pick + Gainwell as the trade package.  Colts will get a 2nd round plus if there are in fact multiple suitors.  Taylor’s contract status makes it extremely unlikely a 1st round pick would be on the table — in addition to the current condition of his ankle. 

I‘m fairly certain noone will even give a second for Taylor. These times are over. Granted one could argue our second could be close to a third but still.

And the teams willing to pay already did so in the past. Either he says: F— them, if I can‘t get my money atleast put me on a strong team or he refuses to accept it, holds out a while and eventually plays for the Colts this year.

If we can get him for a third, which is what I believe is the best the Colts can ultimately get for him, I‘d be happy to do it. Even if it is impossible to find a new deal.

I think Howie has enough sense not to give up anything of value for a RB wanting a big contract.  Don't buy any interest.  

Equally unlikely is a trade for a LB but I would be much more in favor of that.  The Eagles don't really need much.  Another LB, a punter, any backup besides Mariota???

11 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

I think Howie has enough sense not to give up anything of value for a RB wanting a big contract.  Don't buy any interest.  

Equally unlikely is a trade for a LB but I would be much more in favor of that.  The Eagles don't really need much.  Another LB, a punter, any backup besides Mariota???

Lance as a project for QB U would surprise me less than him going for a RB. I could see the Cowboys thinking it will put them over the top and giving a 2nd or 1st. No way he'd do that and pay him. 

They do need LB and it doesn't have to be Queen. He also needs to dump Barnett. 

On 8/21/2023 at 9:51 PM, Wentz_Era said:

Mariota got benched for Ryan Tannehill...and then nobody in Atlanta.

 

Also from Wentz_Era

Nobody said anything about Mariota. We were talking about Tanny, so please focus.

 

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Since the Taylor trade is hypothetically on the table, I’m willing to give various scenarios some thought. So here goes:

(1) The idea of Watkins being part of the package has some interesting wrinkles.  Specifically, the potential of Swift as a rotational slot receiver has merit.  Zaccheaus does pencil in as the primary slot receiver, and a combination of Zaccheaus and Swift as the slot platoon isn’t much of a downgrade from a Watkins and Zaccheaus platoon.

(2) Pretty clearly Gainwell would be part of the trade package.  I like him a lot, but swapping him out for Taylor is a no brainer, especially if Steichen likes him … which he should.

(3) including Driscoll in the trade makes no sense at all.  Our O-line depth is not as robust as we want it to be with Driscoll.  It would be even more suspect if he were gone.  But if Stoutland okays the inclusion of Driscoll, who am I to argue.

(4) I would be interested to hear what other Offensive pieces/players Steichen might like.  Any thoughts?

(5) The more current player value that can be included in the package the lower the draft pick will need to be.  If it can get to be as low as a 3rd round pick, I’m ready to pull the trigger.  Even if it is a one year rental, Taylor will yield a comp pick in return when he signs elsewhere.

I'd rather have more TE2 than WR3.   Which means a lot of things but fewer snaps for those WRs.
Would be in favor of those rbs going if the Eagles are getting Taylor.

Totally fine with giving them Quez. 

Fine with giving them Gainwell.

I like Swift as slot, especially if Swift as slot could be Swift in motion takes the pitch. 

Driscoll.  Driscoll isn't a starter.  Agree that he's more than just a sitting around guy, but Steen seems like a swing tackle.  Maybe he likes Opeta? 

I don't think either Driscoll or Opeta are really so good that Howie can't just replace them or they might have someone they like on the roster now.

I had a list of 5 that Shane might like.  I can assume that he liked all the Eagles last year.  I'd give him Calcaterra as well. 

I agree with the general thinking that the Eagles should be able to get Taylor with a lower pick if players that Shane is happy with are included.
 
I think the Colts should keep Taylor.  Taylor would help Anthony Richardson, I think.  If not, a bunch of good but non essential, replaceable Eagles and a lower draft pick for star RB Taylor sounds good to me.   Maybe Shane is quite happy with an overall infusion of talent,  making up for the loss of premiere talent.

2 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Random thought that will annoy some folks who want him gone yesterday. But after rewatching the Browns game, I kinda thought that Josiah Scott played pretty well. With the injury to McPhearson, I would think that Scott is almost a lock to make the team due to his experience and his ability to play inside.

VanSumeren flashed a little more than I had thought but I still question his tackling (even though he makes some). On that disgusting play where about five guys missed sacking Kellen Mond only to see him rush for a first down, he was the primary whiffer.

Ojomo looks like the real deal. I don't think Jenarius Robinson has shown enough. Tarron Jackson looked better, though I kinda think the ship has sailed on that guy ever being a guy. Truth be told, I'm a bit dubious about our defensive end depth. And I think it's just spiteful folly to want Barnett gone. He's really the only depth end we have who can actually play, unless you want to count Patrick Johnson.

I'm still kinda in the Justin Evans support group, though I wouldn't be shocked if he gets cut. Still think he's better than K'Von Wallace.

Hated the one short yardage run by Kennedy Brooks where all he needed was a yard and he had a clear opportunity to do so yet decided to cut back and got stopped short. To me that's a lack of vision and awareness. And a slow-ish back like him can't afford to be like that. I'm not even sure he's a practice squad guy. They'll surely have a back on the PS, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's someone they add from another team's final cuts.

It feels like every year there is always one or two undrafted free agents who make the team that catch us completely off guard. "Oh wow, THAT guy actually impressed them? I had no idea!" I wonder who it will be.

I wouldn't be surprised if Street or Tuipulotu gets traded for a late round pick. You can't keep everyone and both of those guys are NFL caliber players. Someone would want one of them.

Yeah, I'm rambling. Oh, and I'm not going to the game tomorrow night. And I'm not looking forward to watching another installment of the Ian Book show.

I like VanSumeren.  Right now he seems to be a possibility for one of the special teams linebackers.  He had 2 tackles on special teams in the last game.  At LB,  they gave him the green dot, which could mean they're at least curious about how he'd do with that.   If you look at VanSumeren's numbers,  you'll see a flaw in the agility categories, shuttle and 3 cone.  He's not a fluid, agile guy.  He's a very fast and very powerful guy.   Runs fast, jumps high pushes strongly.  Doesn't stop and start and turn fast.  But you add it up and he's a 9.65 Ras as a LB.

vs Nolan Smith as LB.  very similar numbers.  Nolan Smith didn't do 3 things, and 2 of those things were ones that VanSumeren wasn't good at.

https://ras.football/ras-compare/?&p1=23189&p2=20038&pos=LB

Passes attempted by Jalen Hurts last year, Regular Season+Playoffs:

547

 

 

 

Passes attempted by Trey Lance in College+Preseason+NFL in the last SIX years:

492

 

 

 

That is a real stat

One big reason why I do think the Eagles would be in on Taylor (at the right price) is because they want Hurts to run less.

Sure, they could just hand the ball off to Gainwell more, but do we really think that’s the solution?

Adding an all pro, bell cow type of back makes this much more plausible.

So, while in years past, this may not have been an Eagles type of move, it likely is now.

They will view it as an investment towards helping protect the face of their franchise….and he makes the offense better. 

Win / Win

5 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Random thought that will annoy some folks who want him gone yesterday. But after rewatching the Browns game, I kinda thought that Josiah Scott played pretty well. With the injury to McPhearson, I would think that Scott is almost a lock to make the team due to his experience and his ability to play inside.

Truth be told, I'm a bit dubious about our defensive end depth. And I think it's just spiteful folly to want Barnett gone. He's really the only depth end we have who can actually play, unless you want to count Patrick Johnson.

I'm still kinda in the Justin Evans support group, though I wouldn't be shocked if he gets cut. Still think he's better than K'Von Wallace.

It feels like every year there is always one or two undrafted free agents who make the team that catch us completely off guard. "Oh wow, THAT guy actually impressed them? I had no idea!" I wonder who it will be.

Scott was behind McPhearson and Goodrich on the depth chart. They will sign a corner off the street before he makes the final roster. 

Not sure how DE depth is even an issue with Graham, Smith and Barnett as the backups behind Sweat and Reddick? Are you worried Patrick Johnson is a bad sixth guy? 

As far as UDFA's, Ricks has a pick six and multiple pass break ups and Garner has a forced fumble on special teams. Those are the guys. 

1 hour ago, Parrot Head said:

One big reason why I do think the Eagles would be in on Taylor (at the right price) is because they want Hurts to run less.

Sure, they could just hand the ball off to Gainwell more, but do we really think that’s the solution?

Adding an all pro, bell cow type of back makes this much more plausible.

So, while in years past, this may not have been an Eagles type of move, it likely is now.

They will view it as an investment towards helping protect the face of their franchise….and he makes the offense better. 

Win / Win

That even goes both ways - if the opponent really has to respect your RB, Hurts has an easier time running when he does so.

Lance makes no sense when we appear to have a developable qb in mckee. Lance is a bust so don’t waste any time or resource on him.

 

 

2 hours ago, Parrot Head said:

One big reason why I do think the Eagles would be in on Taylor (at the right price) is because they want Hurts to run less.

Sure, they could just hand the ball off to Gainwell more, but do we really think that’s the solution?

Adding an all pro, bell cow type of back makes this much more plausible.

So, while in years past, this may not have been an Eagles type of move, it likely is now.

They will view it as an investment towards helping protect the face of their franchise….and he makes the offense better. 

Win / Win

Nah not when they already spent a pick on swift and have penny. We can rotate competent backs and Swift has big upside potential

2 hours ago, Parrot Head said:

One big reason why I do think the Eagles would be in on Taylor (at the right price) is because they want Hurts to run less.

Sure, they could just hand the ball off to Gainwell more, but do we really think that’s the solution?

Adding an all pro, bell cow type of back makes this much more plausible.

So, while in years past, this may not have been an Eagles type of move, it likely is now.

They will view it as an investment towards helping protect the face of their franchise….and he makes the offense better. 

Win / Win

If the play called is a read option and the correct read is for Hurts to keep the ball, he's keeping the ball. It doesn't matter who the RB is.

Taylor was given permission to seek a trade. When the player is initiating trade talks it means there will be contract talks as well because the player is unhappy with his current situation. The Eagles aren't giving up compensation and then all of a sudden making the new player happy by making him the highest paid player at a position they have no plans to spend high in. 

The Eagles' monetary investment in protecting Hurts is their willingness to keep Kelce and Johnson as long as they want to play. It has nothing to do with RBs.

7 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

I think you’d be looking at a 2nd round pick + Gainwell as the trade package.  Colts will get a 2nd round plus if there are in fact multiple suitors.  Taylor’s contract status makes it extremely unlikely a 1st round pick would be on the table — in addition to the current condition of his ankle. 

I don’t do it for that.  Maybe a conditional 3rd that becomes a 2nd based on performance.

7 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Random thought that will annoy some folks who want him gone yesterday. But after rewatching the Browns game, I kinda thought that Josiah Scott played pretty well. With the injury to McPhearson, I would think that Scott is almost a lock to make the team due to his experience and his ability to play inside. 

I reluctantly agree with your Josiah Scott assessment, although I’m strongly biased toward making roster decisions with Week 17 in mind rather than Week 1.  Therefore, if Scott is kept I would rather see him on the PS rather than the roster.  The key question on Scott is whether he has reached his ceiling, or still has room to grow,

6 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I don’t do it for that.  Maybe a conditional 3rd that becomes a 2nd based on performance.

Still terrible value and resource allocation

Sweat, Graham, and Barnett play a different position than Reddick, Smith, and Johnson.

I'd trade Barnett for Taylor. 

Penny makes sense as trade bait for the Colts. Not worth a lot, but would give the Colts something.  I'd be surprised if the Eagles trade for Taylor because scheme wise, they don't have an issue running.  A Safety on an expiring deal is much more likely IMHO

8 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Ojomo looks like the real deal. I don't think Jenarius Robinson has shown enough. Tarron Jackson looked better, though I kinda think the ship has sailed on that guy ever being a guy. Truth be told, I'm a bit dubious about our defensive end depth. And I think it's just spiteful folly to want Barnett gone. He's really the only depth end we have who can actually play, unless you want to count Patrick Johnson.

Those are my thoughts as well.  If Howie can get trade value from either Robinson and/or Jackson, he should pull that trigger.  For all his warts, Barnett’s performance is good … until he makes a boner mistake.  DE will be a 2024 Draft priority.

11 hours ago, pgcd3 said:

Eagles aren't trading high draft capital and signing a RB to a big contract.  That's completely counter to what Howie does.  That doesn't even take into consideration that he's coming off a down injured season

Howie does spend 4th round picks on RBs on their rookie contract though.  Ajayi, Howard... both had more than the one year left, iirc though.  And neither had been looking for a new contract. So, this is a bit different.  If Howie can get him for a 4... he'll pull the trigger.  And then flip him for comp picks when he signs elsewhere after the season.   This would be a good landing spot for Taylor to maximize his earning potential by having a big year.