@mattwill 30-17 Eagles

Our D scores points 

15 hours ago, TEW said:

The decisive intervention in the European theater during WW2 wasn’t our military involvement, but rather our aid to Russia on the eastern front.

But, yet again, it was the US that prevented Russia from steam rolling all of Western Europe for the better part of a century. The point still stands.

Interesting perspective.  I would argue that it was a combination of all aspects including the alliance with Russia but the three front approach, beginning in North Africa and continuing in Italy, depleted and removed the Italy component and forced a stretch of Germany’s forces, then a combination of the combined British and American aerial assault depleted German industrial capabilities and from the southern assault depleted the energy aspects including preventing a real incursion into the Middle East.  One cannot overlook the impact of Britain’s defense of India, the Suez Canal and in doing so protecting the oil resources from Germany.  It is well understood that Iraqi leaders were sympathetic to National Socialism.  (The impact of the western usurpation of natural borders and peoples in the Middle East and Africa are still playing out today as well as how that played into the early oil policies of the US and Britain).  That defense was greatly benefited by the US’s and Australian (oft overlooked much as the Canadians were) fierce fighting in the Pacific.  While the resources were concentrated towards Europe, the impact of what was in essence a revenge raid with little impact itself in damaging Japan’s industry, Doolittle’s raid turned into a huge strategic coup because Japan concentrated on protecting itself and recent acquisitions and abandoned its move toward India where it had such a successful initial bombardment on Ceylon.   I would argue that the greatest reason for Russian success was its devotion to such a sacrifice of men and because of that it wasn’t really equipped to push further west from Berlin.  

Be interested in any recommended reading that influenced your statement.

11 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Interesting perspective.  I would argue that it was a combination of all aspects including the alliance with Russia but the three front approach, beginning in North Africa and continuing in Italy, depleted and removed the Italy component and forced a stretch of Germany’s forces, then a combination of the combined British and American aerial assault depleted German industrial capabilities and from the southern assault depleted the energy aspects including preventing a real incursion into the Middle East.  One cannot overlook the impact of Britain’s defense of India, the Suez Canal and in doing so protecting the oil resources from Germany.  It is well understood that Iraqi leaders were sympathetic to National Socialism.  (The impact of the western usurpation of natural borders and peoples in the Middle East and Africa are still playing out today as well as how that played into the early oil policies of the US and Britain).  That defense was greatly benefited by the US’s and Australian (oft overlooked much as the Canadians were) fierce fighting in the Pacific.  While the resources were concentrated towards Europe, the impact of what was in essence a revenge raid with little impact itself in damaging Japan’s industry, Doolittle’s raid turned into a huge strategic coup because Japan concentrated on protecting itself and recent acquisitions and abandoned its move toward India where it had such a successful initial bombardment on Ceylon.   I would argue that the greatest reason for Russian success was its devotion to such a sacrifice of men and because of that it wasn’t really equipped to push further west from Berlin.  

Be interested in any recommended reading that influenced your statement.

Strategic bombing - specifically the oilfields at Polesti.

41 minutes ago, RLC said:

Patrick Surtain IS worth 2 1sts + Ringo, but not to us. We just don't have the cap space to immediately extend him as we already paid Bradberry/Slay for 2024.

We already made our big "trade 1st + 3rd" move for AJ Brown AND we gave Hurts a big money deal. You can't keep doing that.

Yea, I'm trying to play with scenarios in my head to figure out how the money side of things would work. Looking at what contracts expire, who needs to be extended and so on. That's the biggest hurdle. 

2024 UFA- Cox, Kelce, BG, Swift, Scott, Opeta, Albert O, Penny, Bradley, Ellis, Barnett, Mariota, Street, Oz, Morrow, Driscoll, Stoll, Quez, Cunningham, Evans

Out of those players, give me Swift on a 3-year, team friendly deal and one of Bradley/Ellis as LB/ST depth. 

2025 is where things start to happen- Reddick, Sweat, Byard, Maddox, Elliott, Dickerson, Williams, Fred Johnson, McPhearson, Gainwell, Tuipulotu, Patrick Johnson, Jobe, Blankenship. Covey, Isaiah Rodgers.

You can say that maybe 9-10 of those guys are starters. Maddox starts in the slot, Covey is starting PR, Jobe is starting right now.  Out of those guys, Sweat, Elliott and Dickerson are my must have guys. The hope is Nolan Smith replaces Reddick (as good as he's been). Byard is an unknown in this system and will be 32 after 2025 so he's probably gone. Maddox can go after 2023 IMO. Milton Williams is a perfect trade chip based on the talent and expected contracts of Davis/Carter. McPhearson, Gainwell, Tuipulotu, PJ, FJ can go. The hope is Ricks develops and if this is all for Surtain they could be your starting CB and Jobe can go. Blankenship honestly hasn't proven anything to me yet so he isn't a must sign guy yet.

DeVonta Smith will also need his new contract and I hope the Eagles can make him happy enough both money wise and catch volume wise.

It's going to be tricky for sure and that's where Howie is going to earn his paycheck. 

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Yea, I'm trying to play with scenarios in my head to figure out how the money side of things would work. Looking at what contracts expire, who needs to be extended and so on. That's the biggest hurdle. 

2024 UFA- Cox, Kelce, BG, Swift, Scott, Opeta, Albert O, Penny, Bradley, Ellis, Barnett, Mariota, Street, Oz, Morrow, Driscoll, Stoll, Quez, Cunningham, Evans

Out of those players, give me Swift on a 3-year, team friendly deal and one of Bradley/Ellis as LB/ST depth. 

2025 is where things start to happen- Reddick, Sweat, Byard, Maddox, Elliott, Dickerson, Williams, Fred Johnson, McPhearson, Gainwell, Tuipulotu, Patrick Johnson, Jobe, Blankenship. Covey, Isaiah Rodgers.

You can say that maybe 9-10 of those guys are starters. Maddox starts in the slot, Covey is starting PR, Jobe is starting right now.  Out of those guys, Sweat, Elliott and Dickerson are my must have guys. The hope is Nolan Smith replaces Reddick (as good as he's been). Byard is an unknown in this system and will be 32 after 2025 so he's probably gone. Maddox can go after 2023 IMO. Milton Williams is a perfect trade chip based on the talent and expected contracts of Davis/Carter. McPhearson, Gainwell, Tuipulotu, PJ, FJ can go. The hope is Ricks develops and if this is all for Surtain they could be your starting CB and Jobe can go. Blankenship honestly hasn't proven anything to me yet so he isn't a must sign guy yet.

DeVonta Smith will also need his new contract and I hope the Eagles can make him happy enough both money wise and catch volume wise.

It's going to be tricky for sure and that's where Howie is going to earn his paycheck. 

Between '24 and '25, right now combined they have over 100mm in cap space, I would love to see Swift here.....and absolutely they should look to extend Sweat, Elliott and Dickerson next year that way they lock 'em up sooner rather than later.  Same with DeVonta...lock him up.  The thing is....I never worry about the cap with Howie here.  Between him and a team of number crunchers that undertand the cap more than we will ever be able to, these guys probably already have like 2 and 3 years down the road figured out.

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

You can say that maybe 9-10 of those guys are starters. Maddox starts in the slot, Covey is starting PR, Jobe is starting right now.  Out of those guys, Sweat, Elliott and Dickerson are my must have guys. The hope is Nolan Smith replaces Reddick (as good as he's been). Byard is an unknown in this system and will be 32 after 2025 so he's probably gone. Maddox can go after 2023 IMO. Milton Williams is a perfect trade chip based on the talent and expected contracts of Davis/Carter. McPhearson, Gainwell, Tuipulotu, PJ, FJ can go. The hope is Ricks develops and if this is all for Surtain they could be your starting CB and Jobe can go. Blankenship honestly hasn't proven anything to me yet so he isn't a must sign guy yet.

DeVonta Smith will also need his new contract and I hope the Eagles can make him happy enough both money wise and catch volume wise.

It's going to be tricky for sure and that's where Howie is going to earn his paycheck. 

I look at this and think we are set up extremely well. Two years out most teams would look a lot worse than that. There are two drafts, lots of talent to be found - and most young starters locked up long term. We’ve navigated situations a lot worse without any problems recently. This for sure ain’t something to lose sleep about.

13 hours ago, eagle45 said:

The DT rotation may be great and Smith may be massive upside depth to Reddick, but we have nothing behind Sweat.  

What a bizarre statement. BG, even in his advanced age, is still way better than Barnett. 

15 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I would argue that the greatest reason for Russian success was its devotion to such a sacrifice of men and because of that it wasn’t really equipped to push further west from Berlin.  

Russia was essentially the Ukraine of WWII. We gave them so much aid. The biggest thing Russia did on their own was mass produce the T-34 tank and the Yak-1 fighter as well as have enough men willing to fight and die as you stated. The Russian Air Force was then filled out with  P-39 Air Cobra and P-63 King Cobra's given to them via lend-lease with the United States.

Information taken from the US/Russian embassy website:

Even before the United States entered World War II in December 1941, America sent arms and equipment to the Soviet Union to help it defeat the NSDAP invasion. Totaling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today’s currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the "enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy — bloodthirsty Hitlerism.”

400,000 jeeps & trucks

14,000 airplanes

8,000 tractors

13,000 tanks

1.5 million blankets

15 million pairs of army boots

107,000 tons of cotton

2.7 million tons of petrol products

4.5 million tons of food

2 hours ago, RLC said:

Patrick Surtain IS worth 2 1sts + Ringo, but not to us. We just don't have the cap space to immediately extend him as we already paid Bradberry/Slay for 2024.

We already made our big "trade 1st + 3rd" move for AJ Brown AND we gave Hurts a big money deal. You can't keep doing that.

Yep, no way we'd bring in Surtain after the bags we handed to Bradberry and Slay. Just wouldn't make any sense at all. I'd love to get Hicks though if the Vikes are having a fire sale.

4 minutes ago, Infam said:

I look at this and think we are set up extremely well. Two years out most teams would look a lot worse than that. There are two drafts, lots of talent to be found - and most young starters locked up long term. We’ve navigated situations a lot worse without any problems recently. This for sure ain’t something to lose sleep about.

Agreed. Just looking at this and pointing this out trying to figure out if Surtain's upcoming massive contract could fit in the books too.

2 hours ago, RLC said:

Patrick Surtain IS worth 2 1sts + Ringo, but not to us. We just don't have the cap space to immediately extend him as we already paid Bradberry/Slay for 2024.

We already made our big "trade 1st + 3rd" move for AJ Brown AND we gave Hurts a big money deal. You can't keep doing that.

I just don’t see the value. 
 

next year we’ll have

James Bradberry

Isaiah Rodgers

Eli Ricks

Kelee Ringo

hopefully a not-done-yet Darius Slay

maybe Avonte Maddox

Josh Jobe

Potential rookie

 

Not saying Patrick Surtain isn’t better than every name on that list, but there gets to a point where you’re putting too many eggs into one basket. We can’t afford to spend multiple 1sts on that position IMO (even if Surtain’s future contract wasn’t a concern). With those picks I want a  DE to replace Haason or Sweat when their ENORMOUS extensions come up. I want a lineman incase Steen isn’t ready for RG next year, or if Lane isn’t super durable Into his mid 30’s.

Is a CB who costs multiple premium draft picks really going to have THAT level of impact on our SB chances this year? Our pass D has been good when Slay and Bradberry are together (not Minnesota). 

This "want” bothers me a lot that people keep bringing his name up.

One wildcard I'll throw out there is Howie going after one of Washington's DEs, Montez Sweat or Chase Young. Howie is addicted to DL and if we beat Washington soundly they could sell

 

Just now, pgcd3 said:

One wildcard I'll throw out there is Howie going after one of Washington's DEs, Montez Sweat or Chase Young. Howie is addicted to DL and if we beat Washington soundly they could sell

I would be thrilled with either one. Reports, if they are true or not is the question, say that they can be had for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. 

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Agreed. Just looking at this and pointing this out trying to figure out if Surtain's upcoming massive contract could fit in the books too.

Most likely. He’d get the kind of contract that has him play for next to nothing against the cap for like two years and then the numbers escalate like crazy.. only for everything to be changed and kicked down the road even more later. 😄

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

I would be thrilled with either one. Reports, if they are true or not is the question, say that they can be had for a 2nd or 3rd rounder. 

I’d prefer a trade for a good DE over a corner anyways. Corner is a big need eventually too but even though we can make almost anything work it looks like we’d manage our resources a lot better that way.

It’s true though that we have not been that good drafting corners.. but still.

5 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I just don’t see the value. 
 

next year we’ll have

James Bradberry

Isaiah Rodgers

Eli Ricks

Kelee Ringo

hopefully a not-done-yet Darius Slay

maybe Avonte Maddox

Josh Jobe

Potential rookie

 

Not saying Patrick Surtain isn’t better than every name on that list, but there gets to a point where you’re putting too many eggs into one basket. We can’t afford to spend multiple 1sts on that position IMO (even Surtain’s future contract wasn’t a concern). With those picks I want a  DE to replace Haason or Sweat when their ENORMOUS extensions come up. I want a lineman incase Steen isn’t ready for RG next year, or if Lane isn’t super durable Into his mid 30’s.

Is a CB who costs multiple premium draft picks really going to have THAT level of impact on our SB chances this year? Our pass D has been good when Slay and Bradberry are together (not Minnesota). 

This "want” bothers me a lot that people keep bringing his name up.

Don't disagree one bit that we need DE. Reddick is gone IMO. Nolan Smith is his replacement. Sweat is getting his deal, they can't let him walk. Homegrown talent like him needs to retire an Eagle.

Surtain is one of the best, if not the best CB in the NFL and he's young. I'm not letting expiring contracts of two 30+ year old CB on the team get in the way of bringing him in. Jobe is great depth. Ricks has starting potential IMO and in my scenario, Ringo is dealt to get Surtain.

Elam is the Bills’ version of Reagor. Uche has some juice, but he might be too similar to Reddick/Smith. Perhaps we would prefer a more stout edge. 

16 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Don't disagree one bit that we need DE. Reddick is gone IMO. Nolan Smith is his replacement. Sweat is getting his deal, they can't let him walk. Homegrown talent like him needs to retire an Eagle.

Surtain is one of the best, if not the best CB in the NFL and he's young. I'm not letting expiring contracts of two 30+ year old CB on the team get in the way of bringing him in. Jobe is great depth. Ricks has starting potential IMO and in my scenario, Ringo is dealt to get Surtain.

Expiring contracts? Bradberry just got a 3 year deal. Slay got an extension as well, if we cut him before 2025 it’s 24m$ in dead cap

14 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Don't disagree one bit that we need DE. Reddick is gone IMO. Nolan Smith is his replacement. Sweat is getting his deal, they can't let him walk. Homegrown talent like him needs to retire an Eagle.

Surtain is one of the best, if not the best CB in the NFL and he's young. I'm not letting expiring contracts of two 30+ year old CB on the team get in the way of bringing him in. Jobe is great depth. Ricks has starting potential IMO and in my scenario, Ringo is dealt to get Surtain.

 

They aren't expiring contracts.  They are contracts they just signed.  Thata big dead money to take on along with a huge monster deal that Surtain will then command knowing you have young pieces along the offensive line you're going to need to re-sign, the impending monster deal for DeVonta you're going to sign, the resulting monster deal AJ is then going to demand after we pay AJ and Goedert eventually as well.  It's just not plausible.   

We have all these CBs already on the roster, with Isaiah Rodgers waiting in the wings for 2024 too..

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

We have all these CBs already on the roster, with Isaiah Rodgers waiting in the wings for 2024 too..

I don’t think we would want Elam. 

@mattwill

Eagles 27

Washington 10

12 minutes ago, RLC said:

We have all these CBs already on the roster, with Isaiah Rodgers waiting in the wings for 2024 too..

We have many CBs on the roster... we have old, aging vets (Slay, Bradberry and Roby), an oft injured nickel (Maddux) and a bunch of young guys that may or may not be any good, though there may be some reason for some hope (Ricks, Ringo, Jobe), and we have a guy who is currently suspended and needs to be reinstated before he can play (Rodgers).  None of those guys would make me pass on a true stud if the price is right.  With that said, the price for Surtain is way too high.   The only way it would work is if you could trade Bradberry back to the Broncos (and likely one of the young CBs too in order to lessen the draft pick considerations).  The cost for that move would be low enough on the salary cap that you could then consider the draft pick implications.   BUT... the draft pick ask will be way too high to even consider.    Unless Howie can pull a Jedi mind trick on the Broncos and only need to give up (for the sake of discussion):  Bradberry, Ringo, and the 2024 first round pick... then the cost is just way too high.  Adding a 23 year old stud with the Eagles first round pick (even needing to give him a major deal) would be great use of draft resources.  Paying multiple firsts is too much, IMO.

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

We have many CBs on the roster... we have old, aging vets (Slay, Bradberry and Roby), an oft injured nickel (Maddux) and a bunch of young guys that may or may not be any good, though there may be some reason for some hope (Ricks, Ringo, Jobe), and we have a guy who is currently suspended and needs to be reinstated before he can play (Rodgers).  None of those guys would make me pass on a true stud if the price is right.  With that said, the price for Surtain is way too high.   The only way it would work is if you could trade Bradberry back to the Broncos (and likely one of the young CBs too in order to lessen the draft pick considerations).  The cost for that move would be low enough on the salary cap that you could then consider the draft pick implications.   BUT... the draft pick ask will be way too high to even consider.    Unless Howie can pull a Jedi mind trick on the Broncos and only need to give up (for the sake of discussion):  Bradberry, Ringo, and the 2024 first round pick... then the cost is just way too high.  Adding a 23 year old stud with the Eagles first round pick (even needing to give him a major deal) would be great use of draft resources.  Paying multiple firsts is too much, IMO.

Howie passed on handing out extensions last year because he thought it would be detrimental to team chemistry. I just can’t seem him going big at outside corner and disrupting Slay/Bradberry.