25 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But no question that game ending Jets interception was bad.

Of course we later learned all about how he had a significant knee injury on that dang Meadowlands turf. So he didn’t plant on that throw and drive forward. End of game needing the play to come back and win it. Bad situation all around.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Of course we later learned all about how he had a significant knee injury on that dang Meadowlands turf.

 

I’m not a fan of making business decisions personal. But believe we should desire to have Kelce and Fletch back. Really not a fan of keeping players around a year too long. But their play is needed still. Not from the past. 2024 season here. It’s 2024..,holy crap time flies!Kelce has been ballooning in paychecks. But for a C the money was very cheap for a long time with him. Fletch had to accept a paycut a bit. Really be nice if we could convince them both they have one final season in them,

Kelce and Fletch come back for one more season at 9 mil. See what we can do!

Yeah Moore is a passing type. I'm glad about this. I hope he can use the pass catching RB's in such a way. Need to start using the talent Howie brought in. Every aspect of said talent. Still like to add a basher back in FA. Keep Gains and Swift if possible and draft another young guy. Just need to find out who that is. Add a slot and a decent TE2 prospect. TE use becoming more prevalent every year

19 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Keep Gains and Swift if possible and draft another young guy.

Doubt we will pay Swift to stay and if we would consider paying him I’d honestly rather target a guy like Saquon who might come even cheaper then Swift

45 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Yeah Moore is a passing type. I'm glad about this. I hope he can use the pass catching RB's in such a way. Need to start using the talent Howie brought in. Every aspect of said talent. Still like to add a basher back in FA. Keep Gains and Swift if possible and draft another young guy. Just need to find out who that is. Add a slot and a decent TE2 prospect. TE use becoming more prevalent every year

I’m thinking there is a pretty decent chance the Cowboys bring in Swift. Makes a bunch of sense from their point of view. We let Pro Bowlers walk. 

24 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Doubt we will pay Swift to stay and if we would consider paying him I’d honestly rather target a guy like Saquon who might come even cheaper then Swift

The idea of ponying up for a very legit playmaker like Saquan is very interesting thought and idea. Kind of a counter to the Niners beating us on the McCaffrey trade. Except for we don’t have to relinquish draft picks. But not seeing the contracts even in the same ballpark. Swift should command 7.5 mil per year over four years. Just my educated guess here. Saquan going to need to be in the 12 mil per year over four years type deal. Just my opinion here. But RB money is cheap comparatively to most any other positions. A rotational DT probably cost that much of our standards of quality at the position. So I like the idea of springing for the big playmaker instead for the 12 mil. Getting big bang for the buck on that deal. Usually favored a Two Headed Monster approach. But Saquan or McCaffrey are on the level of worth going for it with. Saquan does have significant milage on him. Significant injury history. Bunch of wear and tear on him. But no questioning the elite level of talented athlete and player he is. He’s a difference maker.

Think about if you didn’t have the theoretical philosophies all coinciding with Rosie. That instead of paying Slay and Bradberry. They pay Saquan and Chauncey Gardner-Johnson. A RB and S. Team would have two elite playmakers instead of over the hill hyper prioritized CBs. Actually be cheaper and save money by bringing in the difference making players at the lesser desirable positions of weighted need. More money and better talent. Win/win….if you don’t just shutoff the idea of acquiring a S and RB instead as being wrong.

My viewpoint I just don’t look at things nearly the same way as Rosie…and probably many fans. I’m willing to shift and adjust any and all formulas so everything works out into putting together the Contending…more to the point…a Championship team. I’m all about taking in the current landscape each offseason. So I don’t look at things so much about paying any certain player more than I’d like for any positions. Not really limited by much of any of that. Want to acquire the best difference making talented players. Want to make sure I cover the whole roster with quality players at least at a capable enough to start level. Decisions based on value first. So you want to sign the best bargain quality players first as priority. But if a position Rosie traditionally doesn’t believe in springing for…I have to pony up for because of the limited available quality options? Gotta fit that guy into the salary cap. It’s a part of putting together the Championship Puzzle.

22 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But not seeing the contracts even in the same ballpark. Swift should command 7.5 mil per year over four years. Just my educated guess here. Saquan going to need to be in the 12 mil per year over four years type deal. Just my opinion here.

Not sure the gap will be that large between the two.  Barkley is hard to gauge how much he will earn he signed a tag last year because the value wasn’t there and he had a worse this year then last year.

Swift is coming off his best year and was what top 5 in rushing yards last year. 
 

Again if we have plans to pay swift I’d rather pay extra couple mil to get the better all around RB that can be used on all 3 downs.

And just to add I don’t see us spending on Swift so I don’t see us spending on Barkley either 

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

All of those stats weren’t his fault. You know better. He literally was giving the ball to the other team every time he attempted passes to Quez. The whole story starts with the playcalling. Long developing routes or a WR screen pass. About all we saw for diversity in the plays. He scrambled to avoid the rush way too much for having such a talented lineup of Stouts Boys upfront.

And made some absolutely dumb decisions and physical errors that were absolutely nobody else's fault.

Some didn't even involve turnovers... taking multiple sacks out of bounds instead of flicking the ball away... got saved in the first Giants game at the end of the half when he didn't step out of bounds with no timeouts before halftime.  

Mentally... he needs work.  

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Of course we later learned all about how he had a significant knee injury on that dang Meadowlands turf. So he didn’t plant on that throw and drive forward. End of game needing the play to come back and win it. Bad situation all around.

And if he just came out of a coma...it still was just a brutal decision...that is 100% his fault. 

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I’m thinking there is a pretty decent chance the Cowboys bring in Swift. Makes a bunch of sense from their point of view. We let Pro Bowlers walk. 

And they pay $10 mil for Pollard with it all counting against the cap!

Dallas = bad cap management. 

Which is different than player selection.

58 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Not sure the gap will be that large between the two.  Barkley is hard to gauge how much he will earn he signed a tag last year because the value wasn’t there and he had a worse this year then last year.

Swift is coming off his best year and was what top 5 in rushing yards last year. 
 

Again if we have plans to pay swift I’d rather pay extra couple mil to get the better all around RB that can be used on all 3 downs.

And just to add I don’t see us spending on Swift so I don’t see us spending on Barkley either 

Will add that Saquan has huge leadership qualities also. Swift feels like a solid teammate and all. But he doesn’t bring the same level of intangibles. Feel Giants have been ready to pay Saquan much more than Swift will command. So can’t see his price tag dropping that low. Believe Swift will be in demand. Proved himself. But the RB current market situation I believe will be harsh on him. While in that same light he’ll be one of the select few that cashed in to get paid anything significant as a RB. Saquan and Jacobs are the big fish. Swift won’t be considered on their level. Listed off a fair amount of solid RB FA options of guys that I don’t foresee grabbing large paydays. Pretty much most of the list of anything of quality with the rest of the FA field at the position. 
 Will remind you that Rosie did place a bid on McCaffrey. That would have included paying a RB big money plus giving up the draft pick in a trade. Rumored that he only offered a third round pick. That wasn’t getting it done. So not a real strong effort to make sure to land McCaffrey. But still…to trade for him meant accepting paying a RB his salary. The highest one at the position. So there is something there to suggest Rosie would pay a RB….if he saw it as the right guy. Saquan I see as fitting that standard. Jacobs I’m not as sure about. But clearly he’s worth at least the consideration as being on that upper tier at the position. Doesn’t have the intangibles. Some questions about his translation to our O with the fit. I think he could be really good here. Jacobs probably has more left in the tank…as far as career longevity. But would consider going after those RBs only more as for the next two or three seasons move anyway. Not even considering some 7 year plan of a RB as part of my decision of making the deal. Next couple…or few seasons is it. Are we trying to win it all the next two seasons? Is the main question to answer. You don’t bring in the elite RB..and make that move unless that’s the logic and thinking. Win now type move. Not looking at potential or thinking of it as some building block to grow from. It’s a move to get us over the hump in those most difficult hardest must win games versus the top teams 

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

And made some absolutely dumb decisions and physical errors that were absolutely nobody else's fault.

Some didn't even involve turnovers... taking multiple sacks out of bounds instead of flicking the ball away... got saved in the first Giants game at the end of the half when he didn't step out of bounds with no timeouts before halftime.  

Mentally... he needs work.  

I can agree he could totally improve with that area you point out. But him not having an open WR and protection….to where he’s being forced out of bounds like that in the first place. That’s the real key problem. Had too many quality weapons for them to struggle as hard as they did for separation. So it starts with defenses knowing exactly what we are doing. Locker rumors…even at 10-1 before the huge slide…was labeling the scheme/O/playcalling as super predictable. You champion the talent along the Oline like you are their lead cheerleader. I admit to Stout being probably my favorite coach. So having mid level coverage defenders covering AJ, DeVonta, Goedert and Swift like we just witnessed this season? Shouldn’t have been possible. Not even talking about things being like with the top O minds and scheming guys open so much. Should be the bar for a team wanting to honestly believe they are contenders. But instead of desiring and wishing for brilliance from the coaching…. Just got to demand they don’t telegraph so easily what’s coming to our opponents. Things being anywhere near reasonably equal…without considering field position and football game situations that occur…those four should have created quality separation almost every play. Stats look good for DeVonta and AJ. Not like you look at their season totals and think they stunk or anything. But was a very noticeable and clear downward trajectory. Book was out on our O. 

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I can agree he could totally improve with that area you point out. But him not having an open WR and protection….to where he’s being forced out of bounds like that in the first place. That’s the real key problem. Had too many quality weapons for them to struggle as hard as they did for separation. So it starts with defenses knowing exactly what we are doing. Locker rumors…even at 10-1 before the huge slide…was labeling the scheme/O/playcalling as super predictable. You champion the talent along the Oline like you are their lead cheerleader. I admit to Stout being probably my favorite coach. So having mid level coverage defenders covering AJ, DeVonta, Goedert and Swift like we just witnessed this season? Shouldn’t have been possible. Not even talking about things being like with the top O minds and scheming guys open so much. Should be the bar for a team wanting to honestly believe they are contenders. But instead of desiring and wishing for brilliance from the coaching…. Just got to demand they don’t telegraph so easily what’s coming to our opponents. Things being anywhere near reasonably equal…without considering field position and football game situations that occur…those four should have created quality separation almost every play. Stats look good for DeVonta and AJ. Not like you look at their season totals and think they stunk or anything. But was a very noticeable and clear downward trajectory. Book was out on our O. 

So once you understand this was the situation our guys were performing under: the only conclusion to come to was that no QB was going to thrive so much greater than Hurts just did this past season. 

It felt like not far after midseason teams had the book out on us. That Hurts broke the franchise TD record under those circumstances is pretty remarkable. That our O could suffer through that most crippling situation and still be ranked top ten is also pretty remarkable. The time old cliche of a running game is a QBs best friend is in most every mind of anybody who knows anything about the sport. Failed to supply that most obvious easily achieved facet of the O far too many crucial times. Just weren’t dominating rushing to utilize playaction that had defenders biting up against the run to open up the passing game. Teams played us hard against the pass..especially the second half of the season.
  The D just utterly failing to ever get off the field has to be considered by any reasonable observer as well. Put our team and O in bad positions and situations. Ridiculous amounts of super long controlling the game with the clock drives our D just consistently relinquished week after week. A team that keeps their O off the field to such an extreme level has to effect any O. Giving up points and playing from behind also creates several of the situations where we ended up witnessing a turnover. 

28 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

And they pay $10 mil for Pollard with it all counting against the cap!

Dallas = bad cap management. 

Which is different than player selection.

Yet they are the ones that can and could afford to spring for the RB in Swift. Could afford not just a LB…but a Pro LB room with quality starters and even providing backups. See now can you really separate cap management and player selection? I don’t think you can. I also can’t see how you came to the conclusion that you have on this being that they’ve fielded such a near equal level of roster for so many years now. Talking one game difference every single year between us and the cowboys. Can’t buy into the reasoning being because of their superior coaching. I believe that is their largest obstacle that’s limited their ceiling in the postseason. I’m not terribly interested in assembling a whole franchise that can clobber bad teams..especially at home. I’d prefer a more middle level entire franchise of guys that can handle …hopefully even thrive under the biggest pressure. Don’t care if you are the top regular season O. Meaningless in most ways. Guys that can make it happen against the best with everything on the line. Number one trait I look for in anybody that would be involved with a franchise. Players is obvious. Coaching is easy to see in pointing to after previous statements. But GM it also applies to. Jerry and Rosie fired good to elite coaches over ego. Over control and them demanding the credit and glory. Both guys holding back their franchises over this issue. But an easy point to make specifically about Rosie recently would be: how he hired Desai as DC. I wasn’t excited about that move in the first place for a myriad of reasons. But he actually was doing better than I expected him to achieve. Shut down the Phins and Chiefs in the second half. Rosie screwed things up to even get in the position where he was left hiring Desai. But hiring him and then bringing in Patricia was a very calculated move. Undercut everything with the D. He was clearly brought in as a sign of a proven coach to take over if it was judged that the need arose. Created a situation where it just was obviously flat out in Patricia’s best interest to sabotage things for Desai. Even if it’s just on a level of pointing out mistakes and flaws of Desai taking place. Was it wiser for Patricia to assist and educate Desai to succeed? Or was it better for him to hold back obvious counter solutions? Basically the idea of Patricia holding out his best ideas to make Desai and the D better. Saving those thoughts for the after game meeting with Rosie. Instead of trying to incorporate his ideas and understandings into the gameplan….he set things up so he was more than ready to have solutions about failures to feed the boss afterwards.

48 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

And they pay $10 mil for Pollard with it all counting against the cap!

Dallas = bad cap management. 

Which is different than player selection.

Bad cap management to me is when you combine both. When you sign up for too many years and pay for a player not worth it or over the hill. Alshon Jeffrey was a real good player for us. Good move to sign him and bring him in. But then terrible decision at the end of his career. It’s a rolling cap. So no way you can separate just one seasons cap from the next few seasons cap. Dallas had to make the move away from their bell cow Zeke. But would it have been more wise to sign Pollard to a long term contract at the assumed high price his agent was looking to demand? Not so sure they keep Pollard. Last season his value probably peaked. Not a fan of paying a guy at his peak pricing long term. But how this works in Dallas favor is they also possibly learned that Pollard isn’t that level player. You seem to never look at things so much from the player and his agent point of view. They have plenty of say over the contract situation. All these players have whatever leverage they have generated in their careers already. Not at rocket science levels for agents, guys whom top job skill revolves around knowing and negotiating these contracts. If an agent/player feel strongly their value will only rise along with the rising league wide contracts? Not much incentive for them to do anything different. Add situations like Pollard or Dak where these agents can predict fairly certainly they’ll use the tag on the player in a situation they don’t come to the negotiating table looking to take less financial gains? Just look at it as smart business…for the players. It’s a matter of betting on themselves. Clearly is risk. But accepting a tag salary is all guaranteed big money. In a league where players can even force the situation to be traded? Can’t discount the player side of contract negotiations.

Both teams exited the playoffs without a victory. Is the team that just ponied up for the 2023 cap for a player in better position than a team that spread that cap to limit their future potential? Rolling cap so both ways factors in on the future. Paying Pollard franchise RB type money I judge as would have been a mistake. Got a season of hindsight to now judge even more accurately. With the knowledge the cowboys obtained this season by tagging Pollard…a couple of things changed. His contract leverage depreciated. Not thinking, league wide, he’s being viewed as the elite level RB like some might have seen him as previously building towards. So they can sign that same player long term for cheaper now. But more importantly they paid to see whether he was truely the answer or not. Which I don’t think he passed the test. Think they paid that tag to learn they’d rather move on. Easily seeing how they could instead prefer to poach our RB. Decent chance the cowboys make the deal with Swift this offseason instead. So gave several reasons to support them using the tag. 
 

That’s all without getting all into their decision of needing to bail out from Zeke. But what were the other options? For a franchise that you’d have to believe they had done strong hope to be more than just competitive this season. Gotta tag a Pollard …much more than you can just completely ignore the position…like we did with LB, for  example.

But can’t see how you can separate cap management and player selection? Completely intertwined. I even would argue the most important factor in cap management would be exactly player selection. 

It’s better cap management to be overpaying good players of team need than spreading out more modest level numbers to a bad player. 

I don’t subscribe to the theory of pushing cap hits to the future so much. To cap out a team and also have those players counting so massively against the future seasons was just terrible. Almost crippling. Makes no sense with a team you can’t justify as believing can be contending to win it all. Without all the dead weight baggage of past players cap money on the last three seasons just imagine how strong and formidable the Championship Window could have been. Once you are into that window….then you can start backloading things. Difference in being capable of adding a McCaffrey and Hargrave, monster contracts, instead of growing weaker and losing talent. Putting together a great team like the old Niners and Cowboys did…being able to add that super expensive final piece by grabbing Neon Deon Sanders. Not watching so many quality starters departing over 7 mil type contracts or less like what happened.