Official Philadelphia Flyers Thread - Eliminated.

[LacesOut]

Interesting hire in Jones.

Feels like when they hired the College Coach to be the HC — something ‘out of the box’.

Hope it works out for them. 

[xzmattzx]

There's some good info in this article.  Naturally the Flyers draft 7th in a draft featuring apparently 5 franchise players.

Quote

 

Winners

Top 5 Teams

Of course, Connor Bedard is the headliner of the draft class, and rightfully so. He is incredibly talented and can change the NHL However, not only he in this class can change a franchise. The top five projected picks are all potential NHL franchise players, too, and if you are Anaheim, Columbus, San Jose or Montreal, you are satisfied with what went down.

 

 

https://oilersnation.com/news/edmonton-oilers-take-another-step-back-in-game-3-loss

[Alphagrand]

I have no faith in the Flyers to rebuild through the draft, given their terrible draft history over the past 10 years or so.  They may need to explore a couple of trades with motivated buyers/sellers.  I'll propose one:

The Maple Leafs underperformed in the playoffs (again) and are looking to sake things up.  I have no interest in acquiring any 30+ players, but Mitch Marner could be a solid fit and building block in Philly.  He costs a big salary at $10.9M per season but I think he's their best asset available.  I'd call Dubas and suggest:

To Philly -- Mitch Marner (26) and making $10.9M per season, under contract for two more seasons

To Toronto -- Kevin Hayes (31) and making $7.1M per season, under contract for three more seasons

                     Rasmus Ristolainen (28) and making $5.1M per season, under contract for the next four seasons

                     a future 2nd round draft pick

[devpool]

On 5/17/2023 at 5:36 AM, Alphagrand said:

I have no faith in the Flyers to rebuild through the draft, given their terrible draft history over the past 10 years or so.  They may need to explore a couple of trades with motivated buyers/sellers.  I'll propose one:

The Maple Leafs underperformed in the playoffs (again) and are looking to sake things up.  I have no interest in acquiring any 30+ players, but Mitch Marner could be a solid fit and building block in Philly.  He costs a big salary at $10.9M per season but I think he's their best asset available.  I'd call Dubas and suggest:

To Philly -- Mitch Marner (26) and making $10.9M per season, under contract for two more seasons

To Toronto -- Kevin Hayes (31) and making $7.1M per season, under contract for three more seasons

                     Rasmus Ristolainen (28) and making $5.1M per season, under contract for the next four seasons

                     a future 2nd round draft pick

The leafs would never, nor should they. That's a horrendous return for marner. An awful defenseman, an old mediocre center, and only a 2nd round pick? I would love that for the flyers but there is no earthly way the leafs take that. They might shake things up but they're not tanking 

[Alphagrand]

Already a mis-step from Briere.  Any questions about trading Carter Hart should be met with a flat "No":

 

The new general manager of the Philadelphia Flyers, Daniel Briere, has acknowledged the possibility that goaltender Carter Hart may be on the move this summer. 

Philadelphia Hockey Now's Chuck Bausman relayed a quote Briere made on Philadelphia's 94.1 WIP regarding his No. 1 goalie.

"Most likely, Carter will be our goalie for the future, but I’m not in a position to turn down anything," Briere said. "I have to listen.”

[devpool]

On 5/29/2023 at 6:29 AM, Alphagrand said:

Already a mis-step from Briere.  Any questions about trading Carter Hart should be met with a flat "No":

 

The new general manager of the Philadelphia Flyers, Daniel Briere, has acknowledged the possibility that goaltender Carter Hart may be on the move this summer. 

Philadelphia Hockey Now's Chuck Bausman relayed a quote Briere made on Philadelphia's 94.1 WIP regarding his No. 1 goalie.

"Most likely, Carter will be our goalie for the future, but I’m not in a position to turn down anything," Briere said. "I have to listen.”

You have to listen. This would never ever happen, but if edmonton offered 5 first round picks and McDavid you make that deal. No team will offer what the flyers would likely want in return so that's why he said "most likely". GMs in every sport say this, this isn't a misstep at all.

[Alphagrand]

4 hours ago, devpool said:

You have to listen. This would never ever happen, but if edmonton offered 5 first round picks and McDavid you make that deal. No team will offer what the flyers would likely want in return so that's why he said "most likely". GMs in every sport say this, this isn't a misstep at all.

I'll be sure to tag your post when that happens.

Even if they are open to moving Hart, which would be an egregious error -- you get the best return for an asset if you represent to the market that asset is invaluable and not for sale.  Once you put it out there as available it attracts low-ball offers, builds momentum to the point you convince yourself you're getting fair market for the best of these bad offers.  Not to mention we're talking about a human being, who also becomes attached to the idea of moving on once he understands he's being shopped.

Carter Hart is a building block piece who still isn't 25 yet; two top 10 picks wouldn't even be adequate trade value. 

[devpool]

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

I'll be sure to tag your post when that happens.

Even if they are open to moving Hart, which would be an egregious error -- you get the best return for an asset if you represent to the market that asset is invaluable and not for sale.  Once you put it out there as available it attracts low-ball offers, builds momentum to the point you convince yourself you're getting fair market for the best of these bad offers.  Not to mention we're talking about a human being, who also becomes attached to the idea of moving on once he understands he's being shopped.

Carter Hart is a building block piece who still isn't 25 yet; two top 10 picks wouldn't even be adequate trade value. 

Please re-read the 6 words immediately preceding your highlight.

If you represent that an asset is off the market and unavailable, you're not going to get a single offer. Why would a team bother calling if they know the phone is off the hook? You're being ridiculous, this is nothing new in the world of sports.

Also, Hart is not being shopped. That indicates the team is initiating the talks. Hayes is being shopped, JvR was shopped at the TDL. That is not what is happening here. Hart isn't on the block, they're not actively reaching out to teams to trade him. 

I wouldn't trade Hart either, and Briere is not Fletcher. He's not going to give away a goalie for nothing. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Not even a molehill, more like a small pile of sand that comes out of your shorts after a day at the beach.

[Alphagrand]

I think Kyle Dubas is a really good hire for the Pens; I'd have been happy if the Flyers had hired him instead of Keith Jones -- too bad he came available a couple of weeks too late.  Flyers continue to make bad choices, Pens continue to make good ones -- and the Leafs continue to be what they've always been .... dysfunctional.  That turd Shanahan should lose his job if Dubas succeeds in PIT:

 

 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

Look forward to when we don’t have a goaltender for another 30 years

 

[devpool]

Trading Hart is Fing idiotic unless the return is enormous, like bona-fide top pairing D and high end picks enormous 

[GoEagles5921]

Quite a haul for Provy.  Don’t love the idea of trading Hart but if they are going to do a legit rebuild might not be a terrible idea.

[vsptroops]

Glad they got rid of Provorov and if they trade Hart, so be it. By the time this team is good again, Hart will be older and up for a huge contract anyway. Let some other team overpay. Hart isn't and shouldn't be some untouchable player. While he has been a good goalie, he isn't a Vezina winning goalie either. It looks like he holds value around the league which is good. I'm not saying trade him for peanuts, but if you can get multiple first round picks for him, or maybe a first and a high end prospect, then you absolutely deal him.

[Alphagrand]

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Look forward to when we don’t have a goaltender for another 30 years

 

Wow -- this has the potential to be an awful trade.  I'm not afraid to admit I'm out of touch with the NHL to the point I've never heard of either of these guys until 10 minutes ago. 

Peterson is going to be 29 years old later this year, and has played in 101 games in 5 years??  Doesn't sound like a starting goaltender to me, yet he's making $5M per season .... fantastic.

Walker is worth anywhere from 3-5 goals per year, so unless he's a brick wall defensively I'm not sure of his upside.  Apparently he was on their third defense pairing this season -- sounds great.  AND he's on an expiring contract.

 

Summary -- Flyers trade a pretty good player for two somewhat crappy players, didn't get any younger, and didn't save any money.

[GoEagles5921]

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Wow -- this has the potential to be an awful trade.  I'm not afraid to admit I'm out of touch with the NHL to the point I've never heard of either of these guys until 10 minutes ago. 

Peterson is going to be 29 years old later this year, and has played in 101 games in 5 years??  Doesn't sound like a starting goaltender to me, yet he's making $5M per season .... fantastic.

Walker is worth anywhere from 3-5 goals per year, so unless he's a brick wall defensively I'm not sure of his upside.  Apparently he was on their third defense pairing this season -- sounds great.  AND he's on an expiring contract.

 

Summary -- Flyers trade a pretty good player for two somewhat crappy players, didn't get any younger, and didn't save any money.

They got a 1st, 2 2nds along with a prospect.  Pretty good haul.

[Joe Shades 73]

Not sure which player is overhyped in this city more Hoskins or Hart, both are painfully average, that being said this cal petersen is average also

[vsptroops]

1 minute ago, GoEagles5921 said:

They got a 1st, 2 2nds along with a prospect.  Pretty good haul.

Yep, that's pretty damn good. Just think, they got all of that for Provorov and yet Fletcher couldn't trade JVR on an expiring contract at the trade deadline. Just an awful GM in every way. 

[Alphagrand]

2 minutes ago, GoEagles5921 said:

They got a 1st, 2 2nds along with a prospect.  Pretty good haul.

Did they?  Okay, at least that makes a little bit of sense.  Now, if only the Flyers could draft.  Crossing my fingers Briere hires some good personnel people.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

9 minutes ago, GoEagles5921 said:

They got a 1st, 2 2nds along with a prospect.  Pretty good haul.

I have less of an issue with the Provorov trade. They got draft picks, which is what they want in a rebuild and they got a prospect. The two NHL players that they both aren’t very good. I think one of them is getting bought out. The bigger issue to me is trading Carter Hart. He’s 24 years old. Even if you do a rebuild, it takes 3 to 4 years, he is still in his prime when you’re getting out of that rebuild.

Add on it makes you have to go find another goalie. Which hasn’t been the strong suit for the Flyers. This could potentially be disastrous. If you trade him somewhere, and they have good talent around him, he might become what you thought he would ultimately become. And if that happens, then it looks even worse.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

 

[vsptroops]

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I have less of an issue with the Provorov trade. They got draft picks, which is what they want in a rebuild and they got a prospect. The two NHL players that they both aren’t very good. I think one of them is getting bought out. The bigger issue to me is trading Carter Hart. He’s 24 years old. Even if you do a rebuild, it takes 3 to 4 years, he is still in his prime when you’re getting out of that rebuild.

Add on it makes you have to go find another goalie. Which hasn’t been the strong suit for the Flyers. This could potentially be disastrous. If you trade him somewhere, and they have good talent around him, he might become what you thought he would ultimately become. And if that happens, then it looks even worse.

I think we need to stop acting like Hart is the second coming of Brodeur or Roy. He is an above average goalie who has a weak glove hand and still gives up too many WTF goals. In 3-4 years, he will command a big contract and who knows what type of salary that will be. Like I said, let some other team overpay.  I mean, look at Bobrovsky. He was looking all elite the first 3 rounds of the playoffs and now that his defense is a sieve, he has come crashing back down to earth. Fix the defense first then who knows, maybe they get lucky and draft a future goalie. 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

15 minutes ago, vsptroops said:

I think we need to stop acting like Hart is the second coming of Brodeur or Roy. He is an above average goalie who has a weak glove hand and still gives up too many WTF goals. In 3-4 years, he will command a big contract and who knows what type of salary that will be. Like I said, let some other team overpay.  I mean, look at Bobrovsky. He was looking all elite the first 3 rounds of the playoffs and now that his defense is a sieve, he has come crashing back down to earth. Fix the defense first then who knows, maybe they get lucky and draft a future goalie. 

I’d be willing to bet if he goes to a good organization with good defenseman around him he becomes more than an above average goalie. Bob has won 2 vezina trophy’s in his career.  what greatness did the flyers get back that matched anything close to what Bob has accomplished even if he disappeared in the finals? 

also what makes you sure the flyers find a goalie? They found one in Bob then traded him away. There was a good 20-25 years where we constantly were ****ing about goaltending. If it were easy we wouldn’t have needed 2 decades to find an "above average” goalie in hart or traded away Bob to sign the humungous big goalie

The flyers better be damn sure making that move. cause if he after 25 when he enters his prime on a good team, winds up being everything the flyers and their fans thought for the next decade plus and you are endlessly searching for a goaltender for years it will haunt you for decades 

[vsptroops]

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d be willing to bet if he goes to a good organization with good defenseman around him he becomes more than an above average goalie. Bob has won 2 vezina trophy’s in his career.  what greatness did the flyers get back that matched anything close to what Bob has accomplished even if he disappeared in the finals? 

also what makes you sure the flyers find a goalie? They found one in Bob then traded him away. There was a good 20-25 years where we constantly were ****ing about goaltending. If it were easy we wouldn’t have needed 2 decades to find an "above average” goalie in hart or traded away Bob for humungous big goalie

You made my point. They actually found a goalie in Bob but thanks to Snider's impatience, they stupidly traded him away. Again, if this team was one or two pieces away from contending, I would say keep him. Since they aren't, you trade him (only for a good haul, I wouldn't just give him away). I also think you are naive that this rebuild will take 3-4 years. Maybe 3-4 years to be a fringe playoff team. With horrid contracts to Coots, Ellis, Atkinson, and now Sanheim, I think it's closer to 6-7 years for cup contender status. If that's the case, Hart will be in his 30's and past his prime anyway.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

32 minutes ago, vsptroops said:

You made my point. They actually found a goalie in Bob but thanks to Snider's impatience, they stupidly traded him away. Again, if this team was one or two pieces away from contending, I would say keep him. Since they aren't, you trade him (only for a good haul, I wouldn't just give him away). I also think you are naive that this rebuild will take 3-4 years. Maybe 3-4 years to be a fringe playoff team. With horrid contracts to Coots, Ellis, Atkinson, and now Sanheim, I think it's closer to 6-7 years for cup contender status. If that's the case, Hart will be in his 30's and past his prime anyway.

so they found 1 in the span of 20 years til hart. You are under the assumption they stumble into another one when they haven’t shown to be a goalie factory. You might not get that goalie for 10-15 years. From hextall cup run in 97 to Bob it was about 14 years. 

Bob when he was here people thought he was just an above average goalie like you just stated about hart. Then he went on to win the vezina twice and he is considered one of the best in the league for a decade. He was young like hart and people were impatient about his upside cause they thought they’d seen enough that he’d be topped out. I think what you get in return could likely backfire and you see him become what Bob did and you are hoping to find your goalie and you don’t anywhere near the value they should’ve gotten. Bob might fail this cup finals but he got them there and he’s been fantastic til this series. He’s made teams much better with his goaltending even with the bluejackets. Bob went from every flyers fan saying he was just an above average goalie to a vezina winner twice 

i think their rebuild they are looking at is likely 3-4 years. If we are 5-6 years means your trade of hart and provorov didn’t work and they didn’t do a good job drafting even with some less than stellar contracts. He’s still 28 or 29 at that point if their goal is 3-4 years. Even if it’s 6 years he’s 31. That’s still in his prime.

We are also under the assumption cause he’s been up a couple years at 24 he’s topped out. I think there’s a chance he goes to a good organization and he becomes a star we thought with good talent around him. What good defense have the flyers had in his tenure at the nhl? Might be bottom 10 in the league for most of his tenure. Pandemic year might have been the only year they had a top half of the league defensemen 

i also think some of these picks they are picking up is going to be used to dump some guys you mentioned. Less worried about Atkinson. He has 2 years left he comes off when they hope to start making the jump. Coots, sanheim and ellis are far worse. I tend to believe at least two of those are being bought out at some point  

again flyers are playing a dangerous game. You better be getting a homerun return and pan out. cause if Hart gets better and lives up to what we initially thought then you have to find a goalie (not strong suit of the flyers) and fix most of your team on top of that. Cause if we get to year 5-6 and the rebuild works and you are continuously searching for a goalie then you are basically late 90s and early 2000s flyers that aren’t winning either 

[vsptroops]

10 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

so they found 1 in the span of 20 years til hart. You are under the assumption they stumble into another one when they haven’t shown to be a goalie factory. You might not get that goalie for 10-15 years. From hextall cup run in 97 to Bob it was about 14 years. 

Bob when he was here people thought he was just an above average goalie like you just stated about hart. Then he went on to win the vezina twice and he is considered one of the best in the league for a decade. He was young like hart and people were impatient about his upside cause they thought they’d seen enough that he’d be topped out. I think what you get in return could likely backfire and you see him become what Bob did and you are hoping to find your goalie and you don’t anywhere near the value they should’ve gotten. Bob might fail this cup finals but he got them there and he’s been fantastic til this series. He’s made teams much better with his goaltending even with the bluejackets. Bob went from every flyers fan saying he was just an above average goalie to a vezina winner twice 

i think their rebuild they are looking at is likely 3-4 years. If we are 5-6 years means your trade of hart and provorov didn’t work and they didn’t do a good job drafting even with some less than stellar contracts. He’s still 28 or 29 at that point if their goal is 3-4 years. Even if it’s 6 years he’s 31. That’s still in his prime.

We are also under the assumption cause he’s been up a couple years at 24 he’s topped out. I think there’s a chance he goes to a good organization and he becomes a star we thought with good talent around him. What good defense have the flyers had in his tenure at the nhl? Might be bottom 10 in the league for most of his tenure  

i also think some of these picks they are picking up is going to be used to dump some guys you mentioned. 

again flyers are playing a dangerous game. You better be getting a homerun return and pan out. cause if Hart gets better and lives up to what we initially thought then you have to find a goalie (not strong suit of the flyers) and fix most of your team on top of that. Cause if we get to year 5-6 and the rebuild works and you are continuously searching for a goalie then you are basically late 90s and early 2000s flyers that aren’t winning either 

I say 5-6 years minimum because unless you are drafting a McDavid, Ovechkin, Crosby, it usually takes players 2-3 years for them to even make it and stick in the NHL. Then it takes another 2-3 years for them to fully develop and understand the league and how to be a pro. That's where I get my 5-6 years from. This is also assuming they hit on most of their picks. Oh by the way, neither of the goalies playing in the finals were drafted by their respective teams.