July 19, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: That is why Trump was unique, he stole the Democrats' thunder there and doubled down on the ponzi scheme. He wanted the senior citizen votes. He killed the conservative movement. And you guys want to reward him with another term. But I suppose it was...unique.
July 19, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: I'd end all of the programs tomorrow, but that isn't anywhere close to possible. The way to manage this (you can't fix a Ponzi scheme) is some mix of the following: (i) raise the retirement age to 70 (ii) do some kind of means testing (iii) abolish the program for people under a certain age (e.g., 30). You stop paying in, you never get anything in the future But even those reforms will never happen, so we just careen towards disaster. I like all of these but agree with your conclusion. Opting-in/out would be like Obamacare. Overnight, all the people that can save for retirement on their own would be gone and the only ones left would be the ones who cant save/contribute. And really they should make the retirement age like 75. Most of us were supposed to be dead before hitting the eligibility age. Means testing should absolutely happen. Totally unfair but its the most politically tolerable I think.
July 19, 20232 yr Just now, VanHammersly said: He killed the conservative movement. And you guys want to reward him with another term. But I suppose it was...unique. "Conservative movement" is an interesting thing to say. There wasnt really a "movement," its just what we were as a nation, center-right. Obama opposed gay marriage 15 years ago. But Trump won and winners get to set the narrative (see Joe Bidens "I am the Democratic Party" comment). But now he's not a winner, and youll see the return of more classical GOP positions. The conservative dna is still there, but if you lose its all meaningless. And that is where the GOP find themselves now.
July 19, 20232 yr 12 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: "Conservative movement" is an interesting thing to say. There wasnt really a "movement," its just what we were as a nation, center-right. Obama opposed gay marriage 15 years ago. But Trump won and winners get to set the narrative (see Joe Bidens "I am the Democratic Party" comment). But now he's not a winner, and youll see the return of more classical GOP positions. The conservative dna is still there, but if you lose its all meaningless. And that is where the GOP find themselves now. Of course there was a conservative movement. But it went from being about policies and issues that excited conservative voters to being about the whims of one guy. The whole party bows to that gigantic turd because he’s so popular among Republicans. But he’s not popular enough anymore to win a national election.
July 19, 20232 yr 21 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: and youll see the return of more classical GOP positions.
July 19, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: "Conservative movement" is an interesting thing to say. There wasnt really a "movement," its just what we were as a nation, center-right. Obama opposed gay marriage 15 years ago. But Trump won and winners get to set the narrative (see Joe Bidens "I am the Democratic Party" comment). But now he's not a winner, and youll see the return of more classical GOP positions. The conservative dna is still there, but if you lose its all meaningless. And that is where the GOP find themselves now. When does this classical GOP return happen? Before or after they nominate him for the 3rd straight time? Also, does it coincide with exiling every conservative from the party if they dare criticize Trump?
July 19, 20232 yr Just now, VanHammersly said: When does this classical GOP return happen? Before or after they nominate him for the 3rd straight time? Also, does it coincide with exiling every conservative from party if they dare criticize Trump? nothing will change until his stench is gone. by that i mean him along with pigs like greene and boebert and any other dipsheet like them.
July 19, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, vikas83 said: Uh...bro? https://www.npr.org/2016/03/12/470130961/fact-check-republican-candidates-on-keeping-or-changing-social-security But he had a plan! Just "make the country rich again” so we can afford it!
July 19, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Mike31mt said: At least the GOP some times offers up a solution. Well…..not the lead GOP candidate, which is the problem.
July 19, 20232 yr 51 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Of course there was a conservative movement. But it went from being about policies and issues that excited conservative voters to being about the whims of one guy. The whole party bows to that gigantic turd because he’s so popular among Republicans. But he’s not popular enough anymore to win a national election. When did this conservative movement begin then? The 1850s?
July 19, 20232 yr 37 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: When does this classical GOP return happen? Before or after they nominate him for the 3rd straight time? Also, does it coincide with exiling every conservative from the party if they dare criticize Trump? Ok let's say Trump gets hit by a bus tomorrow. Does the GOP remain the party of Trump forever? If not, why? He killed the movement.
July 19, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Ok let's say Trump gets hit by a bus tomorrow. Does the GOP remain the party of Trump forever? If not, why? He killed the movement. The fact that you believe the only way to end this loser's stranglehold on the party is for him to literally stop breathing, despite the fact that the Republican voters decide who wins the nomination tells you all you need to know about what happens when he's gone. This is what they want. They want National Socialism. It's the future of the right unfortunately.
July 19, 20232 yr 16 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: The fact that you believe the only way to end this loser's stranglehold on the party is for him to literally stop breathing, despite the fact that the Republican voters decide who wins the nomination tells you all you need to know about what happens when he's gone. This is what they want. They want National Socialism. It's the future of the right unfortunately. Ummm you inferred that, I didnt imply it and certainly didn't say that. Im just making a point. If he killed the "conservative movement" that means its dead. So Im just curious what happens to the GOP after Trump, if there will be no return of traditional conservative values as the party has had for literally decades. "National socialism" is certainly one answer. Its probably the most insane and far fetched, but sure!
July 19, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Ummm you inferred that, I didnt imply it and certainly didn't say that. Im just making a point. If he killed the "conservative movement" that means its dead. So Im just curious what happens to the GOP after Trump, if there will be no return of traditional conservative values as the party has had for literally decades. "National socialism" is certainly one answer. Its probably the most insane and far fetched, but sure! National Socialism/Populist Nationalism/Right Wing Authoritarianism, whatever you want to call it, it's where the Republican Party is right now. Will they change in the future? Sure, every party changes in time, but there's no reason to believe it will stop with Trump. It's way too popular and avoids a lot of the electoral pratfalls that go along with conservatism.
July 19, 20232 yr 31 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: When did this conservative movement begin then? The 1850s? You ever heard of a guy named Barry Goldwater? How about William F. Buckley? Phyllis Schlafly? Jerry Falwell? James Dobson?
July 19, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Mike31mt said: You, former libertarian, actually believes this? We all know its a ponzi scheme. Can we stop this bull ish charade please? It’s amazing how you guys went from staunch libertarian to ishlib posters. Many libertarians just want to pull the plug on SS and abruptly end it. Many realize that you can’t just pull the plug in something people have paid into their entire lives and would rather give workers an option. The LPs last POTUS candidate, Jo Jorgensen, was a fan of the 6.2% solution.
July 19, 20232 yr 43 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: Ummm you inferred that, I didnt imply it and certainly didn't say that. So WTF does getting hit by a bus imply? 😂😂😂
July 19, 20232 yr 50 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: You ever heard of a guy named Barry Goldwater? How about William F. Buckley? Phyllis Schlafly? Jerry Falwell? James Dobson? So Trump killed the conservative movement from roughly 80 years ago? You sure? Abortion was literally overturned after his term. Im wondering what, exactly, he killed from the 1950s era GOP?
July 19, 20232 yr 13 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: So WTF does getting hit by a bus imply? 😂😂😂 I was using it to frame my point, you can pretend he retires from politics, gets abducted by aliens, whatever floats your boat. My point is that if he killed the movement, then what happens when hes out of the picture? Our only answer so far is National Socialism so you shouldn't need much effort to beat that prognostication
July 19, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, Mike31mt said: So Trump killed the conservative movement from roughly 80 years ago? You sure? Abortion was literally overturned after his term. Im wondering what, exactly, he killed from the 1950s era GOP? I’m sure the conservative movement in it’s current iteration doesn’t care about policy. It’s all about kowtowing to Trump.
July 19, 20232 yr 51 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: Many libertarians just want to pull the plug on SS and abruptly end it. Many realize that you can’t just pull the plug in something people have paid into their entire lives and would rather give workers an option. The LPs last POTUS candidate, Jo Jorgensen, was a fan of the 6.2% solution. I’d be completely fine with not getting any of the money I put in back, so long as I wouldn’t have to put any in moving forward. An immediate minimum 6.1% raise sounds great.
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