42 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Maybe you don't think that intentionally opening the southern border and promoting "gender affirming" surgeries for children was extreme, but American's sure did.

Neither of this things are true but you keep buying nonsense.

He was not nearly as strong on border security as he should be, but he did not "open the southern border". And a proper fix was on the table for Republicans but they balked because dear leader told them to.

A more open southern border also scares me less than you pissants. We should be securing and knowledgeable about who comes in, but this country needs manpower and there's a lot of good hard working people to our south who want to come here and make a life. We should be promoting a legal path not putting up walls.

The trans stuff is just scare tactic nonsense. An unforced error by the left to be sure but ultimately an insubstantial social issue the right loves to clutch its pearls about.

18 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Let's try this another way to see if we can get this through your thick skull...

1) Are tariffs a type of a tax?

2) Who ultimately pays them?

3) Do consumption taxes disproportionally impact the working class when compared to other types of taxes like income, capital gains, etc.?

Take your time, stay hydrated, and be sure to ask grok for the answer in case you get stuck at any point.

You're changing the subject, but in short yes. I have never been in support of tariffs unless they are being used short term, to try to get other countries to reduce or eliminate theirs. That being said, the 10% blanket tariff he is levying runs in direct contrast to his free trade argument, and I don't support it. Yes it is essentially the same as a tax and yes, companies will increase costs or drive layoffs to offset the increase.

What's funny is that Dems like you should love Tariffs...but you don't, because, ya know...Trump.

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

You're changing the subject, but in short yes. I have never been in support of tariffs unless they are being used short term, to try to get other countries to reduce or eliminate theirs. That being said, the 10% blanket tariff he is levying runs in direct contrast to his free trade argument, and I don't support it. Yes it is essentially the same as a tax and yes, companies will increase costs or drive layoffs to offset the increase.

What's funny is that Dems like you should love Tariffs...but you don't, because, ya know...Trump.

The subject is taxes being imposed on Americans, which you just got done admitting tariffs were a subset of.

Also, what an adorable qualifier of "short term" tariffs being okay to try to cover your bases.

17 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

A more open southern border also scares me less than you pissants. We should be securing and knowledgeable about who comes in, but this country needs manpower and there's a lot of good hard working people to our south who want to come here and make a life. We should be promoting a legal path not putting up walls.

The trans stuff is just scare tactic nonsense. An unforced error by the left to be sure but ultimately an insubstantial social issue the right loves to clutch its pearls about.

Country needs manpower? By illegal immigrants who aren't on the books, don't pay taxes but still use our social services?

I don't hear any Republicans saying that we shouldn't have some immigration for low skilled jobs, but it needs to be controlled and those coming in need to be managed in a way that benefits them and us. Throwing open the southern border to everyone was not the answer.

And on the Trans issue...it may have been a fringe issue, but Dems went out of their way to promote it, including Biden. For a fringe issue, they sure made a big deal out of it. Can't blame the right for exploiting the ridiculousness of it...it was a layup.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

The subject is taxes being imposed on Americans, which you just got done admitting tariffs were a subset of.

Also, what an adorable qualifier of "short term" tariffs being okay to try to cover your bases.

Let me just get this straight. You are in favor of raising the corporate tax rate, but opposed to tariffs, right?

And I'm the idiot 🤣

4 hours ago, Gannan said:

Cutting the $38 billion in corporate welfare to Tesla and Space X would be a good start.

Yeah that would definitely save our rating. Good call

18 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Country needs manpower? By illegal immigrants who aren't on the books, don't pay taxes but still use our social services?

I don't hear any Republicans saying that we shouldn't have some immigration for low skilled jobs, but it needs to be controlled and those coming in need to be managed in a way that benefits them and us. Throwing open the southern border to everyone was not the answer.

And on the Trans issue...it may have been a fringe issue, but Dems went out of their way to promote it, including Biden. For a fringe issue, they sure made a big deal out of it. Can't blame the right for exploiting the ridiculousness of it...it was a layup.

The reality is that it flows the other way with immigrants: illegals on the whole pay more in taxes than they consume in services. There are sundry analyses that show this.

Illegals try to stay under the radar but also work and often that involves paying taxes. They're literally net-positive taxpayers.

57 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Neither of this things are true but you keep buying nonsense.

He was not nearly as strong on border security as he should be, but he did not "open the southern border". And a proper fix was on the table for Republicans but they balked because dear leader told them to.

Immediately revoked the Stay in Mexico policy and border crossings, human and drug trafficking exploded.

It's ok though. Keep thinking this way and the Dems will never win another presidential election.

I should have just fast forwarded to the coping part of this conversation.

"If you don't let in countless drug lords and human traffickers you're just a scared pissant Deeerp"

57 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

A more open southern border also scares me less than you pissants.

37 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Let me just get this straight. You are in favor of raising the corporate tax rate, but opposed to tariffs, right?

And I'm the idiot 🤣

You do not have it straight. I'm opposed to tariffs and also opposed to an increase on corporate tax rates. But to be clear, only one of us was trying to claim Donald Trump was looking out for the working class. That's the real punchline in all this.

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You do not have it straight. I'm opposed to tariffs and also opposed to an increase on corporate tax rates. But to be clear, only one of us was trying to claim Donald Trump was looking out for the working class. That's the real punchline in all this.

30 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The reality is that it flows the other way with immigrants: illegals on the whole pay more in taxes than they consume in services. There are sundry analyses that show this.

Illegals try to stay under the radar but also work and often that involves paying taxes. They're literally net-positive taxpayers.

Maybe those that have registered for ITINs cover their own costs...but I seriously doubt it. Besides, what percentage of immigrants register? Moreover, why would they?

1 hour ago, The Norseman said:

You're changing the subject, but in short yes. I have never been in support of tariffs unless they are being used short term, to try to get other countries to reduce or eliminate theirs. That being said, the 10% blanket tariff he is levying runs in direct contrast to his free trade argument, and I don't support it. Yes it is essentially the same as a tax and yes, companies will increase costs or drive layoffs to offset the increase.

What's funny is that Dems like you should love Tariffs...but you don't, because, ya know...Trump.

Tariffs are a foolish path to go down because long term they do more harm to the home economy.

Literally all any trading partner has to do is wait it out.

It's a foolish weapon being wielded ignorantly by a stupid president. The US is worse for it.

21 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Maybe those that have registered for ITINs cover their own costs...but I seriously doubt it. Besides, what percentage of immigrants register? Moreover, why would they?

Total cost of immigrants to social services is less than the total revenue from illegals working jobs they're taxed.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Tariffs are a foolish path to go down because long term they do more harm to the home economy.

Literally all any trading partner has to do is wait it out.

It's a foolish weapon being wielded ignorantly by a stupid president. The US is worse for it.

They are no better or worse than tax increases, which is what we would have gotten under Kamala.

1 hour ago, The Norseman said:

Country needs manpower? By illegal immigrants who aren't on the books, don't pay taxes but still use our social services?

Maybe you missed the part where he said we should know who is coming into the country, but you are wrong about illegals not paying taxes while using our services. The exact opposite is mostly true, especially in regards to payroll taxes. Illegals pay billions into SS without ever being able to collect.

2 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

They are no better or worse than tax increases, which is what we would have gotten under Kamala.

I heard that for the last four years.

Biden never passed a tax cut 🤷‍♂️

2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Total cost of immigrants to social services is less than the total revenue from illegals working jobs they're taxed.

2 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Maybe you missed the part where he said we should know who is coming into the country, but you are wrong about illegals not paying taxes while using our services. The exact opposite is mostly true, especially in regards to payroll taxes. Illegals pay billions into SS without ever being able to collect.

Oh yea? Then why don't we just throw open all the borders? Sounds like a great deal. Biden sure didn't think it was such a great deal when he was frantically trying to reduce border crossings to bring his poll numbers back up. But hey, I guess he just didn't get it, eh?

Because voters have emotional reactions to immigration, illegal or otherwise.

Irish need not apply and all.

We shouldn't base policy on emotional outbursts of adult sized children. Good politicians know how to deal with idiot voting bases and move the nation forward despite them.

Like it or not, that's leadership. You get any CEO in a place they're being honest and they'll tell you the same.

Instead we voted an adult sized child into the White House. Keep being happy with that and lamenting why our decline is increasing.

1 hour ago, The Norseman said:

I literally work for a corporation, moron.

Corporate taxes should be zero. Because the goal should be to get more corporations operating stateside, and this means jobs here.

Workers will go where the jobs are. Unless you're 2nd and 3rd generation whiners complaining about the factory that relocated from your locale in 1987 and lamenting the future you could have had.... or you could've ef'ing moved. But I digress.

The point is that "fairness" aside, the best way to ensure paying jobs as a matter of public policy is to lubricate the skids for companies to operate here - among which is corporate taxation. Yeah the worker is going to ultimately pay some taxes then, but the reality is that taxes on corps is little different from a tariff. It's passed on to the consumer in higher product costs and the worker in reduced wages.

Edited: autocorrect is often stupid. Locale is a word FFS.

32 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Because voters have emotional reactions to immigration, illegal or otherwise.

Irish need not apply and all.

We shouldn't base policy on emotional outbursts of adult sized children. Good politicians know how to deal with idiot voting bases and move the nation forward despite them.

Like it or not, that's leadership. You get any CEO in a place they're being honest and they'll tell you the same.

Instead we voted an adult sized child into the White House. Keep being happy with that and lamenting why our decline is increasing.

I see. So Biden did the WRONG thing by trying to close the borders, but it was actually really Trump's fault for tricking the populous into thinking that illegal immigrants are BAD, when they're actually really, really GOOD for our economy.

I honestly can't even keep up with the crazy in here anymore.

Nothing is more emotional than Kamala voters. Crying about our "decline" because his team didn't win, while skirting around the obvious failures that resulted in that loss.

Never change, libs