Just now, downundermike said:

So he is a better passer than Jackson, not saying much.

What is the difference in average passing yards 2020 vs 2013.  What is the difference in average passing yards 2020 vs 1985.  Stupid argument, the NFL has changed and passing yards are at an all time high.  

I mean, Jacoby Brissett averaged 209 passing yards in his first 6 starts.  Is Hurts 223 really that special ??  RG III averaged 223.

1985 - 204.5

2013 - 235.6

2020 - 240.2

So technically he was a better passer then Wilson and Jackson since there is a miniscule difference in PYPG from 2013 to 2020. If you want to look at it from 1985, there is a 16% increase of passing per yard between 2020 and 1985. If you add that to Young's numbers, he would be be at 188 yards per game. So Hurts is still better then all of them at the beginning of his career. 

The issue here is that ALL of these guys were runners before they were passer. Jackson continued to run as the have the game plan designed around his running ability, where Wilson and Young ended up focusing on the pass and getting better. It took time before they got to be a lot better as a passer the came can be said about Hurts. It all depends on where Siri and the coaches decide how to gameplan around him and 2 games is not enough time to even know what that is.

20 minutes ago, downundermike said:

No.  A running QB is a QB whose offense is based around his running ability.  The Seahawks offense is not based around that.  

You are trying to say Hurts is a QB when he is incapable of passing to a huge majority of the field.

NOPE.

You're just making things up.

9 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

NOPE.

You're just making things up.

 

29 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

No,  he has an ideology.

According to him,  a running QB is not good.  

So if a QB 1) runs for a lot of yards and 2) is clearly good at passing,  that QB is not a running QB,  because, according to him, a running QB is not good at passing.

For me,  the cutoff for running QB is 500 yards in a season.  But that's not an official stat.  500 rushing yards in a season for a QB is pretty uncommon. 

 

Umm, didn’t you just acknowledge doing the same thing?

2 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

 

Umm, didn’t you just acknowledge doing the same thing?

Good now get the one that said I was making sheet up too. Lol

10 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

NOPE.

You're just making things up.

At this point it's probably better just to not even engage. He's just going to keep doubling down and cherry picking which stats he thinks matter and which ones down. I mean the Steve Young comparison it's hilarious. The guy had passing statistics in 1985 that were god-awful even for 1985 and there was literally nothing to indicate he would ever go on to be anything special. Hurts has shown far more passing ability than that in his first handful of games and the idea that he can't throw to the middle of the field simply because he didn't is just fallacious.

 

3 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

 

Umm, didn’t you just acknowledge doing the same thing?

Now between the two of them look at which one is trying to present their opinion as some establish fact based on cold hard data and which one isn't. Spoiler: it's not the person you just responded to.

1 minute ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Good now get the one that said I was making sheet up too. Lol

Still waiting for you to show me the post where I said next Sirrani was a reason Hurts looked bad in week two and wasn't the reason he looked good in week one. 

3 minutes ago, highboy said:

At this point it's probably better just to not even engage. He's just going to keep doubling down and cherry picking which stats he thinks matter and which ones down. I mean the Steve Young comparison it's hilarious. The guy had passing statistics in 1985 that were god-awful even for 1985 and there was literally nothing to indicate he would ever go on to be anything special. Hurts has shown far more passing ability than that in his first handful of games and the idea that he can't throw to the middle of the field simply because he didn't is just fallacious.

 

Now between the two of them look at which one is trying to present their opinion as some establish fact based on cold hard data and which one isn't. Spoiler: it's not the person you just responded to.

You mean the guy who literally prefaced a comment by saying, "to me”, and concluded that a statistic he presented is not an official statistic?

6 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

You mean the guy who literally prefaced a comment by saying, "to me”, and concluded that a statistic he presented is not an official statistic?

I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference between someone saying "this is how I see it" and someone saying "this is how it is". 

The naysayers are funny. 

36 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

For me,  the cutoff for running QB is 500 yards in a season.  But that's not an official stat.   500 rushing yards in a season for a QB is pretty uncommon. 

Jalen Hurts has 416 yards in 6 starts.  If 500 is your cutoff, and it is very uncommon, and at this pace he will run for 1,100 yards, it really does drive my point home that he is a running QB.

At his current pace this year, Russell Wilson will only hit your benchmark in half of his seasons.  

 

 

1 minute ago, highboy said:

I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference between someone saying "this is how I see it" and someone saying "this is how it is". 

First off, if you or Regular want Mike to provide a source for what he’s saying, ask him. He’s a good dude who will do so. That’s not my concern. I responded because I saw funny, yet contradicting posts within minutes of each other. Regular said Mike was making stuff up. In a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that. He also acknowledged his opinion of a running QB, acknowledging it’s not an official statistic. Again, in a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that comment, but reading them within moments of each other, was quite contradictory and hilarious to me. 
 

Got it now?

16 minutes ago, highboy said:

I'm sorry if you can't tell the difference between someone saying "this is how I see it" and someone saying "this is how it is". 

 

10 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

First off, if you or Regular want Mike to provide a source for what he’s saying, ask him. He’s a good dude who will do so. That’s not my concern. I responded because I saw funny, yet contradicting posts within minutes of each other. Regular said Mike was making stuff up. In a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that. He also acknowledged his opinion of a running QB, acknowledging it’s not an official statistic. Again, in a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that comment, but reading them within moments of each other, was quite contradictory and hilarious to me. 
 

Got it now?

And I have posted plenty of facts to back up "this is how I see it"

Running QB's

Jalen Hurts, 69.3 rushing yards per game, #1 all time.  Lamar Jackson, 64.6 yards per game, 77.6 in his first 6 starts.

QB's who can run if need be

Russell Wilson, 31 yards per game, 18.17 in his first 6 starts.

Steve Young, 28.1 yards per game, 18.17 in his first 6 starts.

If Hurts running for more than double these two guys does not show you they are different QB's, there is nothing I can do to help you.

14.38 % of Russell Wilson's starts he has 2 carries or less.  That is not a running QB.  The offense is not built around his running.

8 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

First off, if you or Regular want Mike to provide a source for what he’s saying, ask him. He’s a good dude who will do so. That’s not my concern. I responded because I saw funny, yet contradicting posts within minutes of each other. Regular said Mike was making stuff up. In a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that. He also acknowledged his opinion of a running QB, acknowledging it’s not an official statistic. Again, in a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that comment, but reading them within moments of each other, was quite contradictory and hilarious to me. 
 

Got it now?

Yeah but, what about those Jumbo packages?

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Yeah but, what about those Jumbo packages?

Oh yeah.  These are the two guys that want Kelce benched on short yardage, Mailata in the backfield and Dillard at LT.  

12 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

First off, if you or Regular want Mike to provide a source for what he’s saying, ask him. He’s a good dude who will do so. That’s not my concern. I responded because I saw funny, yet contradicting posts within minutes of each other. Regular said Mike was making stuff up. In a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that. He also acknowledged his opinion of a running QB, acknowledging it’s not an official statistic. Again, in a vacuum, I wouldn’t have blinked at that comment, but reading them within moments of each other, was quite contradictory and hilarious to me. 
 

Got it now?

Yes I'm aware of your false equivalency. 

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Oh yeah.  These are the two guys that want Kelce benched on short yardage, Mailata in the backfield and Dillard at LT.  

Cool story.

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

And I have posted plenty of facts to back up "this is how I see it"

Running QB's

Jalen Hurts, 69.3 rushing yards per game, #1 all time.  Lamar Jackson, 64.6 yards per game, 77.6 in his first 6 starts.

QB's who can run if need be

Russell Wilson, 31 yards per game, 18.17 in his first 6 starts.

Steve Young, 28.1 yards per game, 18.17 in his first 6 starts.

If Hurts running for more than double these two guys does not show you they are different QB's, there is nothing I can do to help you.

14.38 % of Russell Wilson's starts he has 2 carries or less.  That is not a running QB.  The offense is not built around his running.

Your stats don't validate your arbitrary standard of what a running QB is or isn't. That's the point. 

6 minutes ago, highboy said:

Your stats don't validate your arbitrary standard of what a running QB is or isn't. That's the point. 

When QB X runs for 2 1/2 more times the yards as QB Y, one is a running QB and the other is not.

 

A good breakdown of Hurts' performance against the 49ers.

Jalen Hurts vs 49ers - YouTube

A lot to be excited about, and some areas that need improvement. I would say the two biggest positives are that he has largely been accurate and has avoided turnovers, which were the two biggest concerns coming into the season. If he can continue those trends, I think he will start seeing the field better as he gets used to his receivers, the play calling and what to expect from defenses.

Just now, downundermike said:

When QB X runs for 2 1/2 more times the yards as QB Y, one is a running QB and the other is not.

 

According to your own arbitrary standard. 

5 minutes ago, highboy said:

According to your own arbitrary standard. 

Russell Wilson has ran for 100 yards 4 times in 146 career starts, 2.8% of the time.

Jalen Hurts has for for 100 yards 1 time in 6 career starts, 16.7% of the time.

 

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Russell Wilson has ran for 100 yards 4 times in 146 career starts, 2.8% of the time.

Jalen Hurts has for for 100 yards 1 time in 6 career starts, 16.7% of the time.

 

Yes that is an arbitrary standard that you set all by yourself. You are certainly entitled to use that standard but no one else is obligated to. Russell Wilson is a running QB. 

3 minutes ago, highboy said:

Russell Wilson is a running QB. 

No, he is not.

13.8% of Russel Wilsons career yards are from rushing.

24.8% of Jalen Hurts career yards are from rushing.

Not the same.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

No, he is not.

13.8% of Russel Wilsons career yards are from rushing.

24.8% of Jalen Hurts career yards are from rushing.

Not the same.

Yes he is. He runs. Runs well. He's a running QB. You are correct though in saying that comparing the total career rushing percentage from a quarterback who's been in the league for almost a decade and one that hasn't even played half a season is definitely not the same. 

7 minutes ago, highboy said:

Yes he is. He runs. Runs well. He's a running QB. You are correct though in saying that comparing the total career rushing percentage from a quarterback who's been in the league for almost a decade and one that hasn't even played half a season is definitely not the same. 

Russell Wilson runs on 15.6 % of his total plays.

Jalen Hurts runs on 28% of his total plays.

They are not the same.

39 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

And I have posted plenty of facts to back up "this is how I see it"

Running QB's

Jalen Hurts, 69.3 rushing yards per game, #1 all time.  Lamar Jackson, 64.6 yards per game, 77.6 in his first 6 starts.

QB's who can run if need be

Russell Wilson, 31 yards per game, 18.17 in his first 6 starts.

Steve Young, 28.1 yards per game, 18.17 in his first 6 starts.

If Hurts running for more than double these two guys does not show you they are different QB's, there is nothing I can do to help you.

14.38 % of Russell Wilson's starts he has 2 carries or less.  That is not a running QB.  The offense is not built around his running.

When comparing qb’s who are mobile including ones no longer in the the game shouldn’t Vick always be included?