EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

[Swoop]

2 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Key word as to Dak is had. Like the Eagles OL, his is aging. 

I understand that, but given what the discussion is, which is comparing the two, we have to look at the body of work we have access to, not what the future is, as we don't know yet.

[Saltpeter]

26 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

"Upside" with QBs is the neverending debate. A QB with a missile launcher but no football brain is considered "high upside" seemingly every year.

[BigEFly]

5 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Wouldn't it have helped him? So would this mean he's worried that his 40 time would hurt his draft position?

If a team is drafting Lance based on his forty time, are they really looking at an NFL QB?

[LeanMeanGM]

26 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Wouldn't it have helped him? So would this mean he's worried that his 40 time would hurt his draft position?

I dunno but its a big red flag

[bpac55]

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Big pass

They could have said "So Trey, you're comfortable being almost as fast as Daniel Jones?"

[Mike030270]

22 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

If a team is drafting Lance based on his forty time, are they really looking at an NFL QB?

Howie

[vikas83]

26 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Key word as to Dak is had. Like the Eagles OL, his is aging. 

This is why the Dak contract is a mistake, in my opinion, and it has nothing to do with Dak himself. We've all debated Dak's play endlessly, but the key is the team around him is now old and the window is closing or closed. Dallas was strong from 2013 on thanks to a great line and running game. Now, the line is in shambles -- Frederick is gone, Smith can't stay healthy, and Martin is getting older. Meanwhile, they have run Zeke into the ground. And the defense...well, not much needs to be said. They need to score a ton of points to win games, and I just don't see it with the decline upfront. Drafting Lamb last year made us all mad, but it was remarkably stupid for a team that should be putting assets on the other side of the ball. 

By the time you fix the line and the defense, Dak is looking at free agency again. After this season you can dump a lot of contracts (both Smiths, Lawrence, Zeke, maybe Amari) and try to reset, but you'll have an expensive QB who will be 29 going into the 2022 rebuild. So, if I were Dallas management, right before shooting myself, I would have tagged him again, won the NFC East and hoped for a bolt of lightning in 2021 and then re-set after the year. Instead you are now tied to a guy who has not shown (yet) the ability to elevate a team. 

They will win the east this year, but I don't see them competing with the Rams, Bucs and Packers. 

[ManuManu]

 

[Guest]

[garingovt2000]

If Parsons goes under 4.4 you guys going to pass at 6?

[greendestiny27]

Just now, garingovt2000 said:

If Parsons goes under 4.4 you guys going to pass at 6?

Yes 

I want Anthony Walker Jr in FA. Then draft another backer in round 2 or 3. 

[ManuManu]

 

[bpac55]

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This is why the Dak contract is a mistake, in my opinion, and it has nothing to do with Dak himself. We've all debated Dak's play endlessly, but the key is the team around him is now old and the window is closing or closed. Dallas was strong from 2013 on thanks to a great line and running game. Now, the line is in shambles -- Frederick is gone, Smith can't stay healthy, and Martin is getting older. Meanwhile, they have run Zeke into the ground. And the defense...well, not much needs to be said. They need to score a ton of points to win games, and I just don't see it with the decline upfront. Drafting Lamb last year made us all mad, but it was remarkably stupid for a team that should be putting assets on the other side of the ball. 

By the time you fix the line and the defense, Dak is looking at free agency again. After this season you can dump a lot of contracts (both Smiths, Lawrence, Zeke, maybe Amari) and try to reset, but you'll have an expensive QB who will be 29 going into the 2022 rebuild. So, if I were Dallas management, right before shooting myself, I would have tagged him again, won the NFC East and hoped for a bolt of lightning in 2021 and then re-set after the year. Instead you are now tied to a guy who has not shown (yet) the ability to elevate a team. 

They will win the east this year, but I don't see them competing with the Rams, Bucs and Packers. 

It's easy to hate on the Cowboys but in last years draft not only did they get CeeDee Lamb, A STUD...but...

They also drafted their potential starting corners for the next 4 years in Trevon Diggs and Reggie Robinson so they should have drafted corner instead of CeeDee Lamb argument is null.

They then drafted a very underrated and future starter at DT in Neville Gallimore and a steal IMO in Bradlee Anae at DE.  I would have LOVED for the Eagles to get Anae.  

They then drafted their center of the future in Tyler Biadasz, thanks to the Eagles trading them the pick.  Another player who would be great in green.

To top it off they drafted their backup quarterback in the 7th round in Ben DeNucci...the Eagles drafted their "backup" in the 2nd.

Dallas knows how to draft studs....they just fail to put it all together when it comes to coaching and scheming.   I would trade the entire Eagles 2020 draft class for the Cowboys without blinking. 

Yes, their O-line is aging but look at what the Eagles are have trotted out there and Zeke is overpaid bute you know what....we Eagles fans can no longer judge other teams for handing out bad contracts.  Are the Cowboys eating the largest dead cap hit ever to not have their quarterback?  

I posted this earlier but everyone was cheering that the Cowboys gave up a 1st for Amari Cooper, then they said they ignored defense to draft CeeDee.  Then everyone said oh you can't pay DeMarcus Lawrence or Jaylon Smith all that money because you can't sign Dak.  They just did.  Zekes contract sucks and his production is declining but it didn't handicap them one bit to continue building their roster.

The Eagles, thanks to Howie, the so-called cap genius are F-d right now.  We are going to be paying for veterans players long after they are gone.  We have Slay on the books until he's 35.  We're paying over $100 million for Fletcher Cox and he's nowhere near that player.  

I hate the Cowboys but they are walking circles around Howie lately.  I'm talking post-Super Bowl 52.  Yes, we can claim they haven't won since the 90s but I'm looking at the here and now as well as the next 3-4 years.

[Mike030270]

2 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

It's easy to hate on the Cowboys but in last years draft not only did they get CeeDee Lamb, A STUD...but...

They also drafted their potential starting corners for the next 4 years in Trevon Diggs and Reggie Robinson so they should have drafted corner instead of CeeDee Lamb argument is null.

They then drafted a very underrated and future starter at DT in Neville Gallimore and a steal IMO in Bradlee Anae at DE.  I would have LOVED for the Eagles to get Anae.  

They then drafted their center of the future in Tyler Biadasz, thanks to the Eagles trading them the pick.  Another player who would be great in green.

To top it off they drafted their backup quarterback in the 7th round in Ben DeNucci...the Eagles drafted their "backup" in the 2nd.

Dallas knows how to draft studs....they just fail to put it all together when it comes to coaching and scheming.   I would trade the entire Eagles 2020 draft class for the Cowboys without blinking. 

Yes, their O-line is aging but look at what the Eagles are have trotted out there and Zeke is overpaid bute you know what....we Eagles fans can no longer judge other teams for handing out bad contracts.  Are the Cowboys eating the largest dead cap hit ever to not have their quarterback?  

I posted this earlier but everyone was cheering that the Cowboys gave up a 1st for Amari Cooper, then they said they ignored defense to draft CeeDee.  Then everyone said oh you can't pay DeMarcus Lawrence or Jaylon Smith all that money because you can't sign Dak.  They just did.  Zekes contract sucks and his production is declining but it didn't handicap them one bit to continue building their roster.

The Eagles, thanks to Howie, the so-called cap genius are F-d right now.  We are going to be paying for veterans players long after they are gone.  We have Slay on the books until he's 35.  We're paying over $100 million for Fletcher Cox and he's nowhere near that player.  

I hate the Cowboys but they are walking circles around Howie lately.  I'm talking post-Super Bowl 52.  Yes, we can claim they haven't won since the 90s but I'm looking at the here and now as well as the next 3-4 years.

That's not really much of an accomplishment 

[bpac55]

4 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

That's not really much of an accomplishment 

No, no it isn't but it's really frustrating to see.  JJ and son are making moves that Howie could have and should have been making.

The Eagles offered their 2nd round pick for Cooper which turned out to be Miles Sanders but wouldn't give up their 1st which ended up being Andre Dillard.  

Can you imagine if Howie did what fans wanted him to? 2019 first for Cooper. Miles Sanders in the 2nd along with  DK instead of JJAW. 

2019 draft tuns in to Cooper, Miles Sanders and DK.

Then in 2020, Justin Jefferson instead of Jalen Reagor.

It's not too far fetched to say that the Eagles could have had Amari Cooper, DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson if the right moves are made.  

[Alphagrand]

29 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I dunno but its a big red flag

Why?  I’m more concerned with Lance’s throwing than his running — he’s plenty fast enough.

If he skips any throwing drills at his workout that’d be a red flag.  I’d also give him some complex scheme problems to work through progressions on the whiteboard to evaluate his decision making.  He’s raw, but there’s no question about his physical talent

He’s another guy who’d be on my list after a trade down to the 9-12 range.  I wouldn’t take him at #6 because I think he needs a year to watch.

[NCiggles]

12 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

If Parsons goes under 4.4 you guys going to pass at 6?

If the Eagles are looking at adding at LB, there are plenty of decent prospects that will be available in the 2nd and potentially 3rd rounds.  I don't think Parsons would be that much of a difference maker for the team.  

[Utebird]

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

No, no it isn't but it's really frustrating to see.  JJ and son are making moves that Howie could have and should have been making.

The Eagles offered their 2nd round pick for Cooper which turned out to be Miles Sanders but wouldn't give up their 1st which ended up being Andre Dillard.  

Can you imagine if Howie did what fans wanted him to? 2019 first for Cooper.  DK instead of JJAW.  Justin Jefferson instead of Jalen Reagor.

It's not too far fetched to say that the Eagles could have had Amari Cooper, DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson if the right moves are made.  

I think it's a bit early to say alot of those draft picks were good picks but so far I tend to agree with your statement that the cowboys draft better than howie.

Mentioning denucci as getting something is laughable though,when you draft a backup qb in the 7th chances are you end up with a denucci 

In fact I stipulate that whenever a late pick is used on a useless player one just call it  a Denucci or a Thorson.

Oh there goes Howie pulling a Denucci what a doofus...👎

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Mentioning denucci as getting something is laughable though,when you draft a backup qb in the 7th chances are you end up with a denucci 

He played in a game for them.  More than we can say for Clayton Thorson who didn't even make final cuts.

[BigEFly]

1 hour ago, Saltpeter said:

"Upside" with QBs is the neverending debate. A QB with a missile launcher but no football brain is considered "high upside" seemingly every year.

The thing that concerns me about Lance, Fields and Jones are their number of starts.  Lance essentially played one year.  Same with Jones.  Fields got two, if you call OSU’s 2020 a full season. Wilson and Lawrence are the only ones to crack the 26 games this year (Note that Wentz didn’t hit 26 either and I was concerned about that when he was drafted).   Upside or not, this is the main reason I hesitate to draft a QB at 6 this year. 

Remember the 26-27-60 rule?  26 or higher on Wonderlic, started 27 games or more and had a 60% passing rate or better.

Most of those type QBs played their senior season.  In fact, Bill Parcells’ formula for selecting QBs was be a 3 year starter, start 30 games, win 23 games, graduate college, be a senior, have a 2:1 TD:Interception ratio, plus 60% or better completion ratio.

The formulas are not perfect but succeed much more than they fail.  The one aspect that seems to miss the most in these formulas is the Wonderlic score.  The starts can miss by a game or two but one season or less than two is not a good indicator.  Completion rate seems a must.  

Later players like Trask, Mond, Newman and Mills don’t hit either.  I don’t mind taking a flyer on a back up candidate on day 3.  Don’t like this QB class much.

Know who passes those formulas (except for the Wonderlic, where his leaked score was 21); Jalen Hurts.  He hits all of Parcells’. In fact, he could start at Oklahoma for the same reason Russell Wilson could start at Wisconsin.  He had graduated from Alabama.  His Wonderlic can presage reading the D but as a coach’s son, that might be less of a tell than the other parts of these formulas. 

[Utebird]

Just now, downundermike said:

He played in a game for them.  More than we can say for Clayton Thorson who didn't even make final cuts.

I guess you could call whatever Denucci was doing " playing" but yeah at least the dude made the roster.

I hated the Thorson pick at the time hate it more in hindsight.

I hate that Lurie dictated that they use a pick on a backup qb, Lurie needs to stay out of personnel decisions and just write the checks😡

[vikas83]

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I think it's a bit early to say alot of those draft picks were good picks but so far I tend to agree with your statement that the cowboys draft better than howie.

Mentioning denucci as getting something is laughable though,when you draft a backup qb in the 7th chances are you end up with a denucci 

In fact I stipulate that whenever a late pick is used on a useless player one just call it  a Denucci or a Thorson.

Oh there goes Howie pulling a Denucci what a doofus...👎

Nah man, all those defensive players they drafted are studs. That's why the defense was...check notes...28th in the league. STUDS.

The picks may work, they may not. But people were excited about Avonte Maddox and Sidney Jones too, so...

[bpac55]

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

He played in a game for them.  More than we can say for Clayton Thorson who didn't even make final cuts.

Exactly, and I could be wrong but wasn't Thorson on the Cowboys practice squad all year too?  

[TorontoEagle]

22 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

No, no it isn't but it's really frustrating to see.  JJ and son are making moves that Howie could have and should have been making.

The Eagles offered their 2nd round pick for Cooper which turned out to be Miles Sanders but wouldn't give up their 1st which ended up being Andre Dillard.  

Can you imagine if Howie did what fans wanted him to? 2019 first for Cooper. Miles Sanders in the 2nd along with  DK instead of JJAW. 

2019 draft tuns in to Cooper, Miles Sanders and DK.

Then in 2020, Justin Jefferson instead of Jalen Reagor.

It's not too far fetched to say that the Eagles could have had Amari Cooper, DK Metcalf and Justin Jefferson if the right moves are made.  

Even (and especially if) they had traded for Cooper, they weren't going to draft Metcalf. They, and a LOT of other teams had flagged him for medical reasons. Add in Sidney Jones issues, and logically it makes sense they were gun shy on taking another medical risk. People are so obsessed with the Metcalf pick. It's like jilted ex lovers. The hate should be fully directed at JJAW, and how much of a bust he was. But it's so boring to rehash they should have drafted Metcalf instead. Let it go. 

Edit: From what I can recall, Metcalf had a great 40 time, but his agility numbers were pure trash, and the concern was he would be a one trick pony. 

[vikas83]

The funny part is Dallas is pretty good at identifying talent in the draft, but they are beyond awful at allocating resources when signing/re-signing veterans and at understanding positional value. That's why it is run as a fantasy football team. Zeke was great, but no RB should be picked at #4 (they passed on Ramsey, who was the obvious pick). Then they compound the insanity by extending him with 2 years left and making him the highest paid RB in the game; when you extend a guy early, you're supposed to get a discount. Add in extensions for KVE, Smith, etc. while they let Jones walk.

They can find talent. They can't allocate resources to build a team.