2 hours ago, bpac55 said:

With the Kwitty Paye talk starting up I'm beginning to see 2010 all over again.

Paye, coincidentally, played at UM and is almost identical physically to BG when he came out. at 6-2 260. 

BG was the safe, conventional DE pick in the draft.  Steady player who you knew what you were getting.

Jason Pierre-Paul was the 6-5 270 lb freak athlete who was a gamble but his upside was tremendous.  

Looking at their careers it's easy to argue that JPP is the more dominant DE and bigger threat as a pass rusher.  No denying what BG has brought to the team as a player/teammate/leader and of course the strip sack.

However, in 6 less games, JPP has nearly 100 more tackles, almost 40 more QB hits and 30 more sacks than BG.  I want that kind of production and I think Rousseau has that potential.

		Tackles					Fumbles				Def Interceptions
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	Solo	Ast	QBHits	TFL	Sk	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Int	Yds	TD
1	Brandon Graham	2010	2020	68	159	312	102	123	104	59.0	19	7	24	1	0	0	0
2	Jason Pierre-Paul	2010	2020	86	153	418	154	159	119	89.0	20	10	59	1	4	67	2

 

BG > JPP for the Eagles.

Miami's range of outcomes next season is anywhere from 6 to 24. That's a wide range because of good coaching/roster talent, but bottom 10 QB play. So the "likely" outcome is around 12-20. Getting an extra mid-round pick to move down 6 slots? Easy call.

People are acting like the 6th overall pick are locks.
Just look at the 2019l draft. The top 10 was Murray-Bosa-Williams-Ferrell-White-Jones-Allen-Hockenson-Oliver-Bush. Mix of All-Pros & Busts. That's a normal distribution.

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2021-nfl-draft-trade-grades-dolphins-ace-exam-while-49ers-and-eagles-haul-in-impressive-marks/
 

Even the national media makes fun of Howie’s drafting.  

They always go for the low hanging fruit.  

21 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Not sure Tua has to take a leap as opposed to a step with all the assets the Dolphins are acquiring. 

I don’t think the Dolphins’ roster is nearly as good as most think. They do have a million assets though. 

First Tony Pauline, now this. Miami doesn't seem like a Chase situation. If the Bengals pass on him, he could easily fall.

phins were top 5 defense , points allowed, top 15 , points for

Will only get better , with progression , and those resources 

schedule doesn’t look too bad

 

9 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But by the time we get to our pick we won't be choosing from that group. We will be taking whoever is left. And that's if 5 QBs go before us.

So literally what I said. If there are 5 QBs taken, one of those will be available

6 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

phins were top 5 defense , points allowed, top 15 , points for

Will only get better , with progression , and those resources 

schedule doesn’t look too bad

 

I like their secondary a lot, but I think the defense regresses some next year, and the OL isn’t strong. Maybe they draft Sewell. I didn’t like what I saw from Tua at all. 

Tua looked bad , I think he looks better this year

 

27 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They want a pass rusher who can stop the run?  How far out along that narrow limb are you willing to go?

  Not very far as I way too much for the limb to hold me.

Take for example, Toohill.  Reputation out of college was great as a pass rusher but less than mediocre against the run and tended to be unable to disengage from the blocker.  Not sure he would get drafted this year by the Eagles.  

Check out the "edges” in this year’s draft.  The ones that are seen as 3/4OLB/DE tweeners.  Watch film on them.  Some were primarily rushing from a two point stance and show a tendency to get entangled with the blocker.  You see them all the time in these mock drafts that some of the newer posters are posting all the time in here.  

Shaka Toney is a perfect example.  He probably should be a 3/4 OLB but I doubt he has the instincts for that position and frankly his size is a 4/3 SAM (a position that is dying in the NFL as a 4/2/5 is becoming more of a base defense.)  A lot of two point stance rushing at PSU.  Would get engulfed in one on one with the blockers and sometimes looks lost trying to find the runner.   Seems like a perpetually to small edge rushing specialist in the NFL whose only chance to make a team is as a stellar special teams player.  His ceiling is Gocong.  His floor is more likely.  Yeah, no thanks.

Like Schwartz, Zimmer focuses on having his DEs stop the run. (AFan premises his position on what defenses Ganno coached in).  Run stopping is at least, if not more so, as important as rushing the passer.   I think your response was a bit tongue in cheek and I chuckled at it.  Remember, I was responding to AFan and his insistence that Gannon wants taller DEs.  In a perfect world, height with a long reach and superior strength are an asset at DE if the DE can also seal the edge and stop the run.  But it’s like Jason Peters at 6’4” (short) with 33 1/8 arms.  Both are subpar measurements for a OT. But when you have JP’s quickness and the strength of his punch, that fixes any issues with his size. There are other factors that are more important than an inch or two in height for a DE.

53 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Have you watched Rousseau's highlights?  He plays the run pretty well.  I'm sure there are instances where he gets knocked off balance.  Guess what though, Mailata made 6-8 Calais Campbell topple like a Jenga tower. 

Give me the dynamic athlete with loads of potential for once.  We ALWAYS draft safe (unless they are drafting injured players).  I want to take a chance on guys who are physically dominant,. 

My concern with him is one season of film.  Someone either hits a home run with him or strikes out.  Last year Howie swung for the fences with picking Reagor over Jefferson.  Picking Taylor over Davis-Gaither.  I have seen how high ceiling goes over with the swing for the fences guys in here.   Declared flops after one year.  Howie has swung for the fences or didn’t even get up to bat by misplaying his board too often.  He’s Canseco without the steroids.  I want Ted Williams but I’ll take Pete Rose.  (Baseball analogies from a person that really doesn’t like the game).

32 minutes ago, RLC said:

First Tony Pauline, now this. Miami doesn't seem like a Chase situation. If the Bengals pass on him, he could easily fall.

Remember, WR started going off the board later than most everyone thought last year; Ruggs was the first one selected at #11.

MIA, DET, and NYG are the most likely to draft WR before #12, and it's certainly not a lock they all will.  Waddle at #6 to MIA, Chase to DET at #7 ... where does PItts go?  Devonta Smith goes off the board early, or slide?  

Do ATL or CIN really go pass catcher with all of their other needs?  

I bet a lot of Eagles fan want an offensive weapon at 12 such as: Chase, Pitts, Smith, or Waddle.  If none of them are available that means either Surtain or Parsons would be option and I'm 100% on board with that. 

56 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2021-nfl-draft-trade-grades-dolphins-ace-exam-while-49ers-and-eagles-haul-in-impressive-marks/
 

Even the national media makes fun of Howie’s drafting.  

The article states that they blew the chance to draft Chase, Smith,  Pitts or Waddle at 6 but then admits they still  have HOPE to draft Smith or Waddle at 12.  Whether or not they would draft one of those players at 12, who knows.   But I find it hard to believe one won't be available at 12 (certainly a better chance than a hope and prayer like the article insinuates).

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2021-nfl-draft-trade-grades-dolphins-ace-exam-while-49ers-and-eagles-haul-in-impressive-marks/
 

Even the national media makes fun of Howie’s drafting.  

 

I don't understand this ongoing belief that this writer of the article states.  Is it possible all 4 of those guys are off the board at 12?  Sure but I see that as HIGHLY unlikely.  One or probably 2 of those guys will be there at 12.  I don't see 4 teams that are going to be taking offensive skill players in the top 11 picks especialy with all the QBs that will be going.  

"The Eagles staying put at No. 6 would have netted them one of Ja'Marr Chase, DeVonta Smith, Kyle Pitts or Jaylen Waddle. Any of those players would have made their pass-catching group immediately better in 2021. "

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I don't understand this ongoing belief that this writer of the article states.  Is it possible all 4 of those guys are off the board at 12?  Sure but I see that as HIGHLY unlikely.  One or probably 2 of those guys will be there at 12.  I don't see 4 teams that are going to be taking offensive skill players in the top 11 picks especialy with all the QBs that will be going.  

"The Eagles staying put at No. 6 would have netted them one of Ja'Marr Chase, DeVonta Smith, Kyle Pitts or Jaylen Waddle. Any of those players would have made their pass-catching group immediately better in 2021. "

Anyone they take at twelve would make their position group immediately better in 2021.  Especially CB & LB.

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I don't understand this ongoing belief that this writer of the article states.  Is it possible all 4 of those guys are off the board at 12?  Sure but I see that as HIGHLY unlikely.  One or probably 2 of those guys will be there at 12.  I don't see 4 teams that are going to be taking offensive skill players in the top 11 picks especialy with all the QBs that will be going.  

"The Eagles staying put at No. 6 would have netted them one of Ja'Marr Chase, DeVonta Smith, Kyle Pitts or Jaylen Waddle. Any of those players would have made their pass-catching group immediately better in 2021. "

I was just amused that Howie's bad drafting was discussed as casual, common, nationwide knowledge.  Their rationale on the trade...I don't agree with.  I am not excited about Chase/Smith/Pitts/Waddle at 6 at all.  Bad value.

Any one of them at 12?  Now we are getting warmer.

Honestly, now that we are at 12 and basically go with the guy of that group that is dictated/available to us and we are not confined by the consensus, I actually prefer that it be Waddle.  Waddle at 6 is a huge reach vs consensus opinion.  But I like his fit here.

10 hours ago, Outlaw said:

Farley’s back and relative newness to the position has me ranking him 3rd out of those 3. 

I didn’t know about his back, but he looks, to me, like the guy that won’t get beat deep, hits hard, and has ball skills. I like horn as well, though 

13 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Remember, WR started going off the board later than most everyone thought last year; Ruggs was the first one selected at #11.

MIA, DET, and NYG are the most likely to draft WR before #12, and it's certainly not a lock they all will.  Waddle at #6 to MIA, Chase to DET at #7 ... where does PItts go?  Devonta Smith goes off the board early, or slide?  

Do ATL or CIN really go pass catcher with all of their other needs?  

QB, OT, CB, and DL pushed them down last year.  There shouldn't be a CB or DL taken in the top ten this year.

Am I the only person on this board who has concerns about Surtain?

2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Am I the only person on this board who has concerns about Surtain?

Depends.  What are your concerns?  I like Farley's tape better but I'm not sure Howie can risk another high pick on a CB who might flame out medically.  I certainly wouldn't mind waiting until round 2-3 and grabbing one of the UGA CBs Campbell or Stokes.

If Chase/Smith/Pitts/Waddle are gone and Lance is there...and we don't like Lance...

I'm not madly in love with the defensive options.  Rousseau is a big talent, but a wild card.  Paye is a blend of good athleticism with motor (which the Eagles swoon for), but despite that high motor, he wasn't a big producer in college.  Compare Paye at 12 to someone like PSU's non-productive but athletically absurd Oweh around 33-40.  Which option is better value?

Or Surtain at 12 against Horn in the 20's or Farley 33-40?  (The back will make him fall).

I'd gladly pluck the faller from Chase/Smith/Pitts/Waddle at 12.  But if they are all gone (and they should be), I'd look to see what we could get from trading down again.  What if you could pick up a 2023 1st round pick by going from 12 to low 20's?  I'd do that.  And if someone is trying to trade up for Lance, you could probably do even better.

Part of drafting a QB is trying to win while their salary is low. If the Niners plan to draft and redshirt Trey Lance, it’s a wild one. Three No. 1s for a redshirt is wild. 

10 minutes ago, blindside said:

I didn’t know about his back, but he looks, to me, like the guy that won’t get beat deep, hits hard, and has ball skills. I like horn as well, though 

Getting beat deep isn’t a huge concern if we’re playing with two high safeties.