I always said build the team first then get a QB ,  via draft or a veteran 

2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Anyone they take at twelve would make their position group immediately better in 2021.  Especially CB & LB.

Yes.  Defense needs some focus.   I think the Eagles are set at the Z.  X is a question mark and they can improve at the slot.  I think they can land great value at  X or slot later than the first round.  Slot is very deep.  X is pretty deep with good value for either in the second round through Day 3. Same can be said for IOL and CB.  S is pretty much Day 1 and 2 for FS.  LB is best in the same period.  Just not a great DE draft.  Too many edge rushers in college nowadays. Some depth DTs available but I like to think Williams continues to grow.  

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Depends.  What are your concerns?  I like Farley's tape better but I'm not sure Howie can risk another high pick on a CB who might flame out medically.  I certainly wouldn't mind waiting until round 2-3 and grabbing one of the UGA CBs Campbell or Stokes.

I have concerns about his hips being tight and his effectiveness closing gaps between he and the receiver. Seems he struggles staying with receivers that slant (allows too much distance). Deep speed is an issue, too.

13 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Am I the only person on this board who has concerns about Surtain?

Always a little concerned with a ‘Bama CB.  I like Surtain.  Great technique.  Would not be unhappy with him at 12. 

10 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

If Chase/Smith/Pitts/Waddle are gone and Lance is there...and we don't like Lance...

I'm not madly in love with the defensive options.  Rousseau is a big talent, but a wild card.  Paye is a blend of good athleticism with motor (which the Eagles swoon for), but despite that high motor, he wasn't a big producer in college.  Compare Paye at 12 to someone like PSU's non-productive but athletically absurd Oweh around 33-40.  Which option is better value?

Or Surtain at 12 against Horn in the 20's or Farley 33-40?  (The back will make him fall).

I'd gladly pluck the faller from Chase/Smith/Pitts/Waddle at 12.  But if they are all gone (and they should be), I'd look to see what we could get from trading down again.  What if you could pick up a 2023 1st round pick by going from 12 to low 20's?  I'd do that.  And if someone is trying to trade up for Lance, you could probably do even better.

I am a bit concerned that Smith and Waddle are helped so much by so many threats on offense and a stellar OL.  Cannot get behind Smith.  Great route running will not be enough in the NFL. 

1 hour ago, RLC said:

First Tony Pauline, now this. Miami doesn't seem like a Chase situation. If the Bengals pass on him, he could easily fall.

I think opting out could affect some players like Chase and maybe even Sewell. I think teams are concerned about the year away from football.  So, some of those players might fall, not too far, but still fall nonetheless.

Patrick Surtain is extremely unlikely to bust. He's smart, tough, durable, fast, etc. He's just not twitched-up, so there's no Revis/Ramsey/Talib level upside. 

His floor is Dre Kirkpatrick (solid starter) and his upside is Xavier Rhodes.

I’m not a fan of drafting bama defensive players , 5 stars playing along side 5 stars, too many become just decent pros 

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Patrick Surtain is extremely unlikely to bust. He's smart, tough, durable, fast, etc. He's just not twitched-up, so there's no Revis/Ramsey/Talib level upside. 

His floor is Dre Kirkpatrick (solid starter) and his upside is Xavier Rhodes.

Not sure if this was directed at me or in general, but my concerns don't mean I think he's going to bust. 

6 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I am a bit concerned that Smith and Waddle are helped so much by so many threats on offense and a stellar OL.  Cannot get behind Smith.  Great route running will not be enough in the NFL. 

I echo those concerns at 6.  Smith is not the type of player I go out of my way to draft.  His SEC dominance is jaw dropping, but let's not forget he broke Jordan Matthews' records...for a little perspective on how SEC dominance alone is not enough. 

At 12?  That's a little easier to swallow though.    

 

Barmore at 37 would be sensational 

7 minutes ago, RLC said:

Patrick Surtain is extremely unlikely to bust. He's smart, tough, durable, fast, etc. He's just not twitched-up, so there's no Revis/Ramsey/Talib level upside. 

His floor is Dre Kirkpatrick (solid starter) and his upside is Xavier Rhodes.

And is that worth it at 12?

In this league that has bastardized defensive football, there are only 3 types of CB's.  There are a couple anomalies, the true lockdown CBs.  There are solid starters/good cover guys who get beat a lot and get flagged a lot because that's how the game is played.  And there are liabilities.

If someone isn't going to be the lockdown type, why are we spending a first round pick on someone to be 2020 Darius Slay?  (Good, solid starting CB who can't shut down a #1 WR).  

2 hours ago, metal said:

Good riddance.

Devastating. Fire Howie.

12 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

I think opting out could affect some players like Chase and maybe even Sewell. I think teams are concerned about the year away from football.  So, some of those players might fall, not too far, but still fall nonetheless.

I'd be concerned about opt-outs for sure.

The fact that Waddle/Smith laced up to go out and win another championship while Chase cashed out while his stock was high...Is he going to be making business decisions on my watch and my dime in the NFL too?

And let's be serious...for 21 year old college kids, these decisions weren't about the virus.  We all know that.

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

And is that worth it at 12?

In this league that has bastardized defensive football, there are only 3 types of CB's.  There are a couple anomalies, the true lockdown CBs.  There are solid starters/good cover guys who get beat a lot and get flagged a lot because that's how the game is played.  And there are liabilities.

If someone isn't going to be the lockdown type, why are we spending a first round pick on someone to be 2020 Darius Slay?  (Good, solid starting CB who can't shut down a #1 WR).  

This is my concern. Is Dre Kirkpatrick (which IMO he is likely to be closer to than Rhodes) worth 12? On this team that has holes all over? I don't think so.

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I'd be concerned about opt-outs for sure.

The fact that Waddle/Smith laced up to go out and win another championship while Chase cashed out while his stock was high...Is he going to be making business decisions on my watch and my dime in the NFL too?

And let's be serious...for 21 year old college kids, these decisions weren't about the virus.  We all know that.

This whole draft is in the fog because of opt-outs and no combine.

Another reason to like the trade.  Push some of your draft capital into 2022, where there would be more certainty. 

<Insert "but Howie can't draft" comment here.>

For the same reason, I wouldn't mind seeing one of our third rounders get traded for a second in 2022.

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

And is that worth it at 12?

In this league that has bastardized defensive football, there are only 3 types of CB's.  There are a couple anomalies, the true lockdown CBs.  There are solid starters/good cover guys who get beat a lot and get flagged a lot because that's how the game is played.  And there are liabilities.

If someone isn't going to be the lockdown type, why are we spending a first round pick on someone to be 2020 Darius Slay?  (Good, solid starting CB who can't shut down a #1 WR).  

That's fair. If 2020 Darius Slay was 21 years old, I'd draft him immediately. There would be room for growth.

If Surtain hits his ceiling, then it's absolutely worth #12. If he hits his floor, it's not. 

I'd be ok with Surtain as CB is still a premium position in today's game. If you can't cover outside WRs, you can't win. 

Just now, Connecticut Eagle said:

This whole draft is in the fog because of opt-outs and no combine.

Another reason to like the trade.  Push some of your draft capital into 2022, where there would be more certainty. 

<Insert "but Howie can't draft" comment here.>

For the same reason, I wouldn't mind seeing one of our third rounders get traded for a second in 2022.

I actually agree completely.  Push all draft capital possible into 2022.

I like the Wentz 1st in 2022.  If we get anything for Ertz, I'd take it in 2022.  Shame we can't move Cox/Lane/Brooks, but I'd have done that for 2022 picks too.

The value in this first round is in picks 10-32.  The top 10 value is diluted because there just isn't enough data to prop 10 players about the rest...and I think this particular draft doesn't have that many players with major can't-miss talent befitting top 10 picks.

I think that drop off actually was going to be squarely at pick 6...so nabbing a first to bounce back to 12 was a really nice move.

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I'd be concerned about opt-outs for sure.

The fact that Waddle/Smith laced up to go out and win another championship while Chase cashed out while his stock was high...Is he going to be making business decisions on my watch and my dime in the NFL too?

And let's be serious...for 21 year old college kids, these decisions weren't about the virus.  We all know that.

I think some of them probably had legit reasons.  Some of them could have parents with health issues.  But, teams could be concerned that they might want to opt out again if their families still have those health issues.  And, some players lose a lot after missing a year without football. So, I think that is how teams will view it.  I don't think that all these kids are dogging it because they opted out. But, football culture is based on team commitment and teams are going to most likely be wary of opt outs. I knew Goodwin wasn't going to see a snap with the Eagles after he opted out. I don't blame him per se because he and his wife have a new baby.  But, if you are a marginal player and opt out, then you are probably done with your current team.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

That's fair. If 2020 Darius Slay was 21 years old, I'd draft him immediately. There would be room for growth.

If Surtain hits his ceiling, then it's absolutely worth #12. If he hits his floor, it's not. 

I'd be ok with Surtain as CB is still a premium position in today's game. If you can't cover outside WRs, you can't win. 

I just have a more nihilistic view of the position.  I don't think anyone can really cover outside WRs with the current construction of the NFL game.  So if no one can do it, why chase after an enigma that doesn't exist?

There are CB's that are less ineffective and cause more hiccups for opposing offenses than most.  That's Slay.  That's what Surtain may become.  When you have a CB who is helpless, that's bad too...not condoning that.  But I'd rather have 5 pretty good guys in the secondary than 1-2 Slay's and a bunch of liabilities.  It's just too easy to repeatedly destroy the weakest link.

So I'd sooner save 12 for offense or a pass rusher...and invest multiples of picks in rounds 2-4 on DB's that actually fit our system (whatever that may be).

The opt outs wouldn't bother me one bit -- how many games did Nick Bosa play before he packed it in at OSU to train for the draft?  Three?  He didn't miss a beat; was a stud immediately upon entering the NFL.  I think Chase will pick up where he left off as well.

2 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

I think some of them probably had legit reasons.  Some of them could have parents with health issues.  But, teams could be concerned that they might want to opt out again if their families still have those health issues.  And, some players lose a lot after missing a year without football. So, I think that is how teams will view it.  I don't think that all these kids are dogging it because they opted out. But, football culture is based on team commitment and teams are going to most likely be wary of opt outs. I knew Goodwin wasn't going to see a snap with the Eagles after he opted out. I don't blame him per se because he and his wife have a new baby.  But, if you are a marginal player and opt out, then you are probably done with your current team.

Someone who opts out of a year of college football is more likely to pull a Laveon Bell/TO than someone who doesn't.  Does it make someone undraftable?  Of course not.  But teams overanalyze everything, as they should, and this risk will be on their radar.

 

4 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Disappointing?  That is decent size for a 4/3 DE.  

disappointing because it's not 6-4 272. Not sure if Gannon would love his real size especially at 12

Good signing for cheap. 

22 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

There are CB's that are less ineffective and cause more hiccups for opposing offenses than most.  That's Slay.  That's what Surtain may become.  When you have a CB who is helpless, that's bad too...not condoning that.  But I'd rather have 5 pretty good guys in the secondary than 1-2 Slay's and a bunch of liabilities.  It's just too easy to repeatedly destroy the weakest link.

I'm on-board with this. A smart team is better off with 7 good DBs, then 3 great DBs and scrubs.

Of course, the Rams built their entire secondary around one elite CB and playing 2 high to cover everything else. More than one way to win.