3 minutes ago, RLC said:

I don't want Paye, but the idea that he's not explosive is crazy.

Some people still, wrongly, accuse Graham over being not explosive either. Graham was a great pick in 2010. Paye would be "fine" in 2021. If he has a Graham-like career, that's a win.

It wouldn't be a loss. But I would prefer a Reggie White type career 

not a fan of Paye at 12. We need a kid we can build around long-term. not one that has already peaked out physically due to age, Kid will be a good pro. we need better than "good"

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

I don't want Paye, but the idea that he's not explosive is crazy.

Some people still, wrongly, accuse Graham over being not explosive either. Graham was a great pick in 2010. Paye would be "fine" in 2021. If he has a Graham-like career, that's a win.

Yup whether one likes Paye or not saying he isn't explosive like you say is crazy.

This draft will be different in that the guys talent level between pick say 10-32 is minimal and will just come down to teams needs and preferences for what players fit their system 

Traditionally a guy like Paye would normally first what the eagles draft but with a new coach not from the Reid tree and Howie changing philosophy ever minute and the news that Lurie is influencing picks😡 who knows what they are thinking .

This is the first time in a while I haven't been confident in saying this handful of guys could be targets it seems the whole draft this year save the first two picks is so much more uncertain than years past.

5 minutes ago, greend said:

It wouldn't be a loss. But I would prefer a Reggie White type career 

He was all right😉

At least Lurie still cares.

9 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

not a fan of Paye at 12. We need a kid we can build around long-term. not one that has already peaked out physically due to age, Kid will be a good pro. we need better than "good"

The dude is 22 not 26.

I mean most of these draftees are 21 or 22 every once in a while you'll get a 20 year old.

Having said that Paye still has room to grow, he has the frame to put on more weight if need be and he like alot of college players can improve technique 

I mean barnett was drafted at what 20 years old hows that going for a guy that hadn't peaked yet?

10 hours ago, ManuManu said:

It’s interesting to look back at the draft and see how littered with potholes the 2017 class was after the Barnett pick. 

Obviously Humphrey, White and Watt would have been terrific picks instead of Barnett. Ramsczyk fell because of a hip issue, but us proven to be very good.

The rest? Bolles was a bust until this season but now looks like a stud. He was 25 when picked. He’ll be 29 this season. Allen actually has fewer sacks than Barnett. Howard hasn’t come close to reaching expectations. Same for Hooker, Jackson, Davis, Harris, Conley, etc. McKinley, Harris and Charleton are basically fighting to stick around in the league. 

Peppers has been absolutely terrific for NY. Does everything and is a leader. I was beating the drum furiously for him back then.

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

not a fan of Paye at 12. We need a kid we can build around long-term. not one that has already peaked out physically due to age, Kid will be a good pro. we need better than "good"

If those test results are for real, his peak is higher than most younger players will ever reach.

Basically he tested like an elite LB at 261? lbs, SS/cone drills that match up with top DBs, 36" vertical. Whether the 40 is 4.5 or 4.6, at his weight it's great.

Now he's risky b/c Michigan's season was truncated, so you don't really know what kind of full season he'd put up.

But being maxed out should not determine the pick, potential is a dirty word, Paye demonstrates elite athleticism.

As always, the film should decide, but his testing shouldn't be an issue.

 

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

I don't want Paye, but the idea that he's not explosive is crazy.

Some people still, wrongly, accuse Graham over being not explosive either. Graham was a great pick in 2010. Paye would be "fine" in 2021. If he has a Graham-like career, that's a win.

While BG has had a nice Eagles career and is an All-Time Eagle, I don't consider his career for the draft value to be great.  

I've compared him to JPP (who has 30 more sacks in less games but more snaps played) who went pick 14.

A better comparison is Jerry Hughes.  Jerry Hughes was pick 31 of the draft.  They are both built the same.  Shorter, squatty guys unlike the JPP who's the tall lean athletic freak.

So the Eagles traded pick 24 (Dez Bryant) 2 3rd round picks who ended up being Ed Dixon and Eric Decker to get nearly identical production as the guy who went at pick 31.

						Tackles					Fumbles				Def Interceptions
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	Solo	Ast	QBHits	TFL	Sk	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Int	Yds	TD
1	Brandon Graham	2010	2020	68	159	312	102	123	104	59.0	19	7	24	1	0	0	0
2	Jerry Hughes	2010	2020	68	167	268	126	122	81	56.0	14	5	52	2	1	-3	0

 

I'm not dogging on BG.  I love BG and he's such a big part of Eagles history.  Not taking any of that away from him.  But from a draft standpoint and discussing whether or not a guy has been great I'm going to say no.

1 hour ago, Original Sin said:

He knew his job was in jeopardy , trust me Marrone did not intentionally tank the season/ his job , because the owner told him to 

So you have personally knowledge of him? You his Cousin?

11 hours ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

Is this what you think Howie does or what you would want if it falls like that? Paye is a trash pick at 12.

 

That's what I think Howie does and all teams before him. 

2 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Peppers has been absolutely terrific for NY. Does everything and is a leader. I was beating the drum furiously for him back then.

I think a lot of people wanted Jabril Peppers.  The never ending search for good safeties could have been helped there tremendously. 

Just now, bpac55 said:

While BG has had a nice Eagles career and is an All-Time Eagle, I don't consider his career for the draft value to be great.  

I've compared him to JPP (who has 30 more sacks in less games but more snaps played) who went pick 14.

A better comparison is Jerry Hughes.  Jerry Hughes was pick 31 of the draft.  They are both built the same.  Shorter, squatty guys unlike the JPP who's the tall lean athletic freak.

So the Eagles traded pick 24 (Dez Bryant) 2 3rd round picks who ended up being Ed Dixon and Eric Decker to get nearly identical production as the guy who went at pick 31.

						Tackles					Fumbles				Def Interceptions
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	Solo	Ast	QBHits	TFL	Sk	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Int	Yds	TD
1	Brandon Graham	2010	2020	68	159	312	102	123	104	59.0	19	7	24	1	0	0	0
2	Jerry Hughes	2010	2020	68	167	268	126	122	81	56.0	14	5	52	2	1	-3	0

 

I'm not dogging on BG.  I love BG and he's such a big part of Eagles history.  Not taking any of that away from him.  But from a draft standpoint and discussing whether or not a guy has been great I'm going to say no.

Brandon Graham put up those numbers *after* microfracture surgery. We were worried he'd never played again. He was never as explosive as he was before the surgery, but you take an AV of 68 at EDGE at #13 overall every, single, time. 

Was Hughes a better value at 31? Yes & no. He got that value after leaving Indy for Buffalo. From the Colts POV, he's a bust.

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Pederson was in no way responsible for the salary cap.  Nor was Carson Wentz.  The salary cap situation was all Howie's doing.

In no way?

If the coach is lobbying the owner for "one more shot” at the super bowl, and the owner agrees, then the orders to the GM are radically different than if the plan is to rebuild.

Again, this idea that the GM is 100% responsible for something is ridiculous. There are other people involved that influence every decision.

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

While BG has had a nice Eagles career and is an All-Time Eagle, I don't consider his career for the draft value to be great.  

I've compared him to JPP (who has 30 more sacks in less games but more snaps played) who went pick 14.

A better comparison is Jerry Hughes.  Jerry Hughes was pick 31 of the draft.  They are both built the same.  Shorter, squatty guys unlike the JPP who's the tall lean athletic freak.

So the Eagles traded pick 24 (Dez Bryant) 2 3rd round picks who ended up being Ed Dixon and Eric Decker to get nearly identical production as the guy who went at pick 31.

						Tackles					Fumbles				Def Interceptions
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	Solo	Ast	QBHits	TFL	Sk	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Int	Yds	TD
1	Brandon Graham	2010	2020	68	159	312	102	123	104	59.0	19	7	24	1	0	0	0
2	Jerry Hughes	2010	2020	68	167	268	126	122	81	56.0	14	5	52	2	1	-3	0

 

I'm not dogging on BG.  I love BG and he's such a big part of Eagles history.  Not taking any of that away from him.  But from a draft standpoint and discussing whether or not a guy has been great I'm going to say no.

Hughes was a pass rush specialist, Graham is one of the top run stoppers at DE through out his career.

No one would take Hughes over BG. Not even close. And Graham once he got healthy was among the top guys in overall pressure, sacks are sexy, but any DC will tell you the real key to a pass rush is moving the QB from his "Sweet spot" and forcing him to get rid of the ball early before plays develop. A lot of sackmeisters sell out for the sack and lose containment or get ridden out of the play.

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

While BG has had a nice Eagles career and is an All-Time Eagle, I don't consider his career for the draft value to be great.  

I've compared him to JPP (who has 30 more sacks in less games but more snaps played) who went pick 14.

A better comparison is Jerry Hughes.  Jerry Hughes was pick 31 of the draft.  They are both built the same.  Shorter, squatty guys unlike the JPP who's the tall lean athletic freak.

So the Eagles traded pick 24 (Dez Bryant) 2 3rd round picks who ended up being Ed Dixon and Eric Decker to get nearly identical production as the guy who went at pick 31.

						Tackles					Fumbles				Def Interceptions
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	Solo	Ast	QBHits	TFL	Sk	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Int	Yds	TD
1	Brandon Graham	2010	2020	68	159	312	102	123	104	59.0	19	7	24	1	0	0	0
2	Jerry Hughes	2010	2020	68	167	268	126	122	81	56.0	14	5	52	2	1	-3	0

 

I'm not dogging on BG.  I love BG and he's such a big part of Eagles history.  Not taking any of that away from him.  But from a draft standpoint and discussing whether or not a guy has been great I'm going to say no.

I really liked jerry hughes coming out, he's had a pretty good career, he's not as solid against the run as graham and of course he doesn't have any super bowl winning plays like graham but yeah the gap between their draft spot is wider than their gap of on paper production.

 

23 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I keep hearing from posters that Kwitty Paye isn't explosive yet his testing numbers and the tape say otherwise.

Dude ran a 4.5 at 260 holds the record for fastest ever 3 cone for DL benched 36 vert of 35.5 broad of 9"10 those are all explosive numbers and on tape he explodes out of his stance and shows impressive closing speed and he explodes into his hits.

He's not an average athlete who gets by on technique and effort or over whelming size.

He's a plus athlete with a high motor and pretty solid technique not to mention a high character guy that is also a academic all american.

Some of his cons are he's only 6'2" and I believe he's 23 years old or will be and he doesn't have like alot of players this draft not as much production due to truncated season.

His pros though are that he's an explosive edge who also plays the run well.

I like him at 12 if he's there though I think 12 may be a bit high for him then again I think in this draft 12 might be a bit high for any one available there.

 

It all depends on who falls. Otherwise, 12 is a tricky spot and we may end up reaching.

Just now, QBhunter58 said:

It all depends on who falls. Otherwise, 12 is a tricky spot and we may end up reaching.

Yeah I think a reach at that point is no bueno, if at 12 one isn't in love with a player there just trade back a couple spots if one can.

27 minutes ago, What The F said:

If anyone thinks this is a 7 win team with the schedule they have, you are nuts. 

4-13 would be a gift.  

We will see.  3-4 wins would probably be better for the long run, but I suspect they will win a few more than that.  Nothing about 6-11 or 7-10 record would make it a good team... just the nature of the current NFL and the relative parity.

13 minutes ago, Sturm said:

So you have personally knowledge of him? You his Cousin?

No not his relative , it’s called common sense.

Just now, Original Sin said:

No not his relative , it’s called common sense.

You are ignorant if you don't think owners have influence on a teams coach.

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think a lot of people wanted Jabril Peppers.  The never ending search for good safeties could have been helped there tremendously. 

it feels like we pass on good safeties every freaking year...

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

Brandon Graham put up those numbers *after* microfracture surgery. We were worried he'd never played again. He was never as explosive as he was before the surgery, but you take an AV of 68 at EDGE at #13 overall every, single, time. 

Was Hughes a better value at 31? Yes & no. He got that value after leaving Indy for Buffalo. From the Colts POV, he's a bust.

Yup Graham has had a roller coaster career from being moved all over inside and outside as a rookie to then losing basically 2 years to injury then being not liked by washburn to then go to rotational 34 OLB to then starting OLB back to Starting 43 DE to super bowl hero who stripped brady rushing from DT to first pro bowl in the twilight of his career.

Jerry hughes meanwhile went from Indy bust to buffalo pass rush specialist... That's it.

11 minutes ago, TEW said:

In no way?

If the coach is lobbying the owner for "one more shot” at the super bowl, and the owner agrees, then the orders to the GM are radically different than if the plan is to rebuild.

Again, this idea that the GM is 100% responsible for something is ridiculous. There are other people involved that influence every decision.

Also, we can’t pretend like Covid isn’t involved when it comes to the cap. A lot of teams were screwed over. 

1 minute ago, Sturm said:

You are ignorant if you don't think owners have influence on a teams coach.

You’re ignorant if you think Marrone  tanked the season because owner told him to , knowing his job was already on the line .

again , use some common sense 

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

You’re ignorant if you think Marrone  tanked the season because owner told him to , knowing his job was already on the line .

again , use some common sense 

I wasn't calling it out like that, I was calling you out for saying we should "trust you" as you speak of having personal knowledge of the choices in his head.