Just now, Bacarty2 said:

Correct. I went DB's in general as I feel like we need a SS/FS more than we need CB#2

I also feel like we need WR1, LB1, LB2, DT1, SS1, FS1, QB1, OT1 before we need CB2. 

Absolutely totally agree.

Corner used to be a premium position but with the leagues rules no more and I think a lot of old heads are havi g a tough time making the transition 

JJ used to say he built his defense on the edges two DEs two Corners where as the traditional thinking was build the middle DT LB Safety.

Now I think with the rules that put corners at a disadvantage the best way to defend the pass is either getting to the qb which is more difficult as the league rules overly protect qbs or find guys that can do multiple things for a defense those guys are usually LBs and safeties. DL and CB are more one dimensional though that dimension that a DL brings is valued more than the dimension a CB brings.

I just think one can find corners if comparable talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds where as once one gets out of the first round or even say top 20 the drop off in pass rushers drops off significantly.

 

2 minutes ago, SBorBust said:

Are you really going to die on this hill? It was a great pick and was very good value.

The only only good top-15 picks are hall of famers. Everyone knows this 🙄. GOAT or bust.

9 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Thanks for showing your work. 

1 pro bowl out of a top 15 pick and he ended up not being a one of the top 3 DE's in the draft. Sure man.

 

Who are the top 3 DEs in that draft?

JPP

Dunlap 

And ???

 

1 minute ago, SBorBust said:

Are you really going to die on this hill? It was a great pick and was very good value.

Eagles traded 3 picks to get BG.  BG is a great run defender but let's not kid ourselves and act like sacks don't matter.  He has 59 for his career.  Yes, he battled injuries, scheme changes and position changes and is 100% a team player. 

Picks 24, 70 and 87 combined for 143 career TD's.  

59 sacks or 143 TDs?  

 

***Disclaimer***   I love BG, he's one of my favorite Eagles and I don't wish we had Dez, Dickson and Decker. 

59 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

While BG has had a nice Eagles career and is an All-Time Eagle, I don't consider his career for the draft value to be great.  

I've compared him to JPP (who has 30 more sacks in less games but more snaps played) who went pick 14.

A better comparison is Jerry Hughes.  Jerry Hughes was pick 31 of the draft.  They are both built the same.  Shorter, squatty guys unlike the JPP who's the tall lean athletic freak.

So the Eagles traded pick 24 (Dez Bryant) 2 3rd round picks who ended up being Ed Dixon and Eric Decker to get nearly identical production as the guy who went at pick 31.

						Tackles					Fumbles				Def Interceptions
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	Solo	Ast	QBHits	TFL	Sk	FF	FR	Yds	TD	Int	Yds	TD
1	Brandon Graham	2010	2020	68	159	312	102	123	104	59.0	19	7	24	1	0	0	0
2	Jerry Hughes	2010	2020	68	167	268	126	122	81	56.0	14	5	52	2	1	-3	0

 

I'm not dogging on BG.  I love BG and he's such a big part of Eagles history.  Not taking any of that away from him.  But from a draft standpoint and discussing whether or not a guy has been great I'm going to say no.

 

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Again,  comparing production vs his draft position is not me saying I have a problem with BG.

Goodness.  

I say he has been great, and would take him again even knowing exactly how the rest of the draft shook out. Funny, I like to be able to cheer for the players on my team, not just on the field and their numbers. But what they provide to the community, and to the team in off field ways, such as leadership. BG being drafted at 13 was a great pick. You'd rather have JPP? Ok, sure, though I think it's splitting hairs. JPP isn't some HOF destined player either. Aside from the insane fireworks incident, I think he's a good teammate and person (I'm not really sure, I haven't followed his career the same way). 

Carlos Dunlap? Nice career for sure, but when Cincy went into the gutter, he whined his way off the team. I don't see BG doing that, and to me, that matters.

Everson Griffen? Again, nice career, but his mental health issues (which probably aren't anything he has control over) are a big deal. Threatning to shoot somebody in a hotel room is kind of a bad thing. 

If you want to just paint BG's career only on his sack numbers, then have at it. But his career is much more than that. Without the Super Bowl strip sack, maybe I would be swayed to your point of view. But that play alone was worth everything they paid for BG and then some. Combined with everything else he has brought in his career, it was absolutely a great draft pick.

As far Bacarty, you clearly aren't a fan of this team. I don't care about the Pittsburgh BS, but you hate everything this team does and it appears you don't like any players on it. You have no credibility. 

 

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Eagles traded 3 picks to get BG.  BG is a great run defender but let's not kid ourselves and act like sacks don't matter.  He has 59 for his career.  Yes, he battled injuries, scheme changes and position changes and is 100% a team player. 

Picks 24, 70 and 87 combined for 143 career TD's.  

59 sacks or 143 TDs?  

 

***Disclaimer***   I love BG, he's one of my favorite Eagles and I don't wish we had Dez, Dickson and Decker. 

Even with the benefit of hindsight your selections make the team worse.

4 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Eagles traded 3 picks to get BG.  BG is a great run defender but let's not kid ourselves and act like sacks don't matter.  He has 59 for his career.  Yes, he battled injuries, scheme changes and position changes and is 100% a team player. 

Picks 24, 70 and 87 combined for 143 career TD's.  

59 sacks or 143 TDs?  

 

***Disclaimer***   I love BG, he's one of my favorite Eagles and I don't wish we had Dez, Dickson and Decker. 

That's disingenuous. 3 players production turns out to be less than 3 times what BG did. 

I keep seeing people say "if Chase or Pitts is there at 6, Howie screwed up”. But I think maybe he was thinking that one of those two, Smith or Waddle would still be there at 12 and he could get one of them and a 1st next year. 
 

But I don’t trust Howie to make the right pick, so maybe he was thinking they all wouldnt be there so he didn’t have to choose between all of them and make the wrong decision. So.. if he makes the wrong decision he can be like "hey, at least I got us another 1st (please don’t fire me)”

big fan of his , he has to hit 4.5s for me

CB Benjamin St. Juste was 6-3 1/4, 202 with 9 3/8 hand, 32 5/8 arm, 78 5/8 wingspan. 9-11 broad jump, 34 1/2 vertical

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

 

I say he has been great, and would take him again even knowing exactly how the rest of the draft shook out. Funny, I like to be able to cheer for the players on my team, not just on the field and their numbers. But what they provide to the community, and to the team in off field ways, such as leadership. BG being drafted at 13 was a great pick. You'd rather have JPP? Ok, sure, though I think it's splitting hairs. JPP isn't some HOF destined player either. Aside from the insane fireworks incident, I think he's a good teammate and person (I'm not really sure, I haven't followed his career the same way). 

Carlos Dunlap? Nice career for sure, but when Cincy went into the gutter, he whined his way off the team. I don't see BG doing that, and to me, that matters.

Everson Griffen? Again, nice career, but his mental health issues (which probably aren't anything he has control over) are a big deal. Threatning to shoot somebody in a hotel room is kind of a bad thing. 

If you want to just paint BG's career only on his sack numbers, then have at it. But his career is much more than that. Without the Super Bowl strip sack, maybe I would be swayed to your point of view. But that play alone was worth everything they paid for BG and then some. Combined with everything else he has brought in his career, it was absolutely a great draft pick.

As far Bacarty, you clearly aren't a fan of this team. I don't care about the Pittsburgh BS, but you hate everything this team does and it appears you don't like any players on it. You have no credibility. 

 

Back to my original question.  Are you reading my entire posts?  I never said I wanted JPP, Dunlap or Griffen instead of BG.  I made it clear that BG brings more to the table than just sacks.  I've stated how much I like him and how he's an all-time Eagle.  I agree with you on one thing, I want Eagles players to be decent people and provide leadership and be champions in the community.

 

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

Back to my original question.  Are you reading my entire posts?  I never said I wanted JPP, Dunlap or Griffen instead of BG.  I made it clear that BG brings more to the table than just sacks.  I've stated how much I like him and how he's an all-time Eagle.  I agree with you on one thing, I want Eagles players to be decent people and provide leadership and be champions in the community.

 

If you knew what you know now, would you take BG again at 13? 

You claim he's an all time Eagle, but wasn't a great pick. How does that make sense?

10 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Everson Griffen. Probably McCoy in there too.

I like BG, it just wasnt a good pick at 13. 

Mccoy is a DT.

Everson Griffen I disagree Graham is better.

Looking back I can agree though that pick 13 trading 3 picks to get there I'd expect more than 50 something sacks and Graham does so much more on the defense and as a team member and in the community and of course his super bowl strip sack almost makes it worth 13 alone

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

People are saying that because the report is, we moved out of 6 because howie doesnt think they'd be there. 

I also want no parts of Smith and dont think Waddle will  be there at 12 

Reports from who? McLane? I don’t believe any reports saying what teams want. How would they know that? Howie isn’t telling the media his intentions

11 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

That's disingenuous. 3 players production turns out to be less than 3 times what BG did. 

All you have to do is not trade away the picks that become the Pro Bowlers! It's that simple.

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

Peppers has been absolutely terrific for NY. Does everything and is a leader. I was beating the drum furiously for him back then.

I don’t think he’s as good as you think. 

Sad day in Carolina. 😢. Thanks Roy!

 

 

 

Tom Pelissero

 

@TomPelissero

·

1m

 

 

Watches vary but multiple scouts had Bateman’s best 40 at 4.39 seconds. Highest had him mid-4.4s

2 minutes ago, blindside said:

Reports from who? McLane? I don’t believe any reports saying what teams want. How would they know that? Howie isn’t telling the media his intentions

Telling his intentions, no. Leaking things like they didn't think Chase would be there at #6 to appease the fanbase, yes, he absolutely would. 

 

Have we signed a corner yet

16 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

If you knew what you know now, would you take BG again at 13? 

That's such a tricky question.  The reason I started the conversation was draft slot/value vs. production.  Based on his career production and knowing that comparable production was had at pick 31 with Jerry Hughes, i say no.

If I knew that BG was going to strip Tom Brady in SB52? might change things.  But that's the trick with hindsight, it can go so many ways.  If we had another DE in on that play you never know if he makes the same play that BG did.

Would you take Nelson Agholor in the 1st knowing how his career played out, but knowing how important he was in 2017?  

And yes, he's an all-time great Eagle....that doesn't mean his career = the value of pick 13.

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

 

 

 

Tom Pelissero

 

@TomPelissero

·

1m

 

 

Watches vary but multiple scouts had Bateman’s best 40 at 4.39 seconds. Highest had him mid-4.4s

I say it was really a 4.38 they just added that 1 100th to dispel a conspiracy😄

3 minutes ago, What The F said:

AND the first April Fools tweet of the day.  Surprised it took until almost lunch time.

5 minutes ago, What The F said:

Really? damn you