time2rock Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Move up ... move down ... I really don’t care. And my first care isn’t even related to position. The ONLY thing I care about is hitting on a higher percentage of our draft picks ... in particular the higher ones (day 1, 2 picks) and then becoming more than just serviceable starters. I’d like to see more Pro Bowlers or All Pros added to this team ... regardless of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 7 hours ago, time2rock said: Move up ... move down ... I really don’t care. And my first care isn’t even related to position. The ONLY thing I care about is hitting on a higher percentage of our draft picks ... in particular the higher ones (day 1, 2 picks) and then becoming more than just serviceable starters. I’d like to see more Pro Bowlers or All Pros added to this team ... regardless of position. 100%! I wanted us to pick at #6 and I didn't like the trade down. But do you know what? If they end up picking a really really good player in the first and second round then all will be forgotten. This team needs to add young talent. That is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManchesterEagle Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 12 hours ago, T-1000 said: Exactly. Howie haters, sadly don't even realize how stupid they are making themselves look. I literally saw someone say yesterday how great super bowl 52 was, and there is no hope of that ever happening again in the near future since the right people aren't in place running the franchise. I guess he forgot Howie was the one who drafted Lane Johnson, Zach Ertz, Big V, Mills, etc and signed Blount, Long, and Robinson. Howie's drafts in recent years have been terrible, but he has also done a lot of good things. He's a middle of the road GM with clear strengths and one major weakness. Either way, I get people not liking the trade down from 6 to 12, but those who trash it without making it clear that they got tremendous value to make the move are clueless. Also, for the love of god can we let Chase, Pitts, and Sewell step on an NFL field for one play before proclaiming they are generational talents. I wouldn't even go as far to say that his drafts have been terrible. They've not been good. But this rhetoric that Howie is the worst general manager in the league is so misplaced. The annoying thing is I'm not a fan and want to criticise him, but the hatred is so over the top I find myself having to defend him. As you say he has strengths and weaknesses. He was intergral in our Super Bowl win. He's also been integral in our decline. Before we completely condemn him, let's see how some of these recent picks work out. Can Goedert step up to the pro-bowl potential he has? Will either Mailata or Dillard develop into our long term LT? Can Reagor, Fulgham or Watkins (who all flashed ability in 2020) step up to be legitimate starting WRs? Can Wallace develop into a starting safety? Can we get immediate production out of pick 12? Most importantly - does Hurts like our potential franchise QB in year 2? If the answer to most of these questions is no - then yes it's time to move on. Let's get rid of him before we have all those first rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said: But this rhetoric that Howie is the worst general manager in the league is so misplaced. The annoying thing is I'm not a fan and want to criticise him, but the hatred is so over the top I find myself having to defend him. As you say he has strengths and weaknesses. He was intergral in our Super Bowl win. He's also been integral in our decline. He isn't the worst GM in the league but he's in the bottom third and arguably the bottom 5. He's a bad GM and he shouldn't be in the job. Does that mean he never makes good moves? No it doesn't. For all the criticism he rightly gets he also deserves credit when he does something right. But the Howie that came back out of the cupboard and rebuilt the roster is different to the Howie that is now in charge. That's been widely reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time2rock Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said: I wouldn't even go as far to say that his drafts have been terrible. They've not been good. But this rhetoric that Howie is the worst general manager in the league is so misplaced. The annoying thing is I'm not a fan and want to criticise him, but the hatred is so over the top I find myself having to defend him. As you say he has strengths and weaknesses. He was intergral in our Super Bowl win. He's also been integral in our decline. Before we completely condemn him, let's see how some of these recent picks work out. Can Goedert step up to the pro-bowl potential he has? Will either Mailata or Dillard develop into our long term LT? Can Reagor, Fulgham or Watkins (who all flashed ability in 2020) step up to be legitimate starting WRs? Can Wallace develop into a starting safety? Can we get immediate production out of pick 12? Most importantly - does Hurts like our potential franchise QB in year 2? If the answer to most of these questions is no - then yes it's time to move on. Let's get rid of him before we have all those first rounders. How many pro bowl players has he drafted? He doesn’t use the info his scouts provide him thinking he is smarter than they are and follows his own board. He is a horrible evaluator of talent ... that makes him a terrible GM. Spin it any way you’d like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManchesterEagle Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, time2rock said: How many pro bowl players has he drafted? He doesn’t use the info his scouts provide him thinking he is smarter than they are and follows his own board. He is a horrible evaluator of talent ... that makes him a terrible GM. Spin it any way you’d like. I've seen various draft evaluations which takes into account draft position and results and it puts the Eagles/Howie as below average. Not terrible Now if you say that has gone on for too long, below average is not good enough and that he has dined out on the Super Bowl for too long, I wouldn't disagree. I also think he is more culpable for the teams failings than Doug and Schwartz (both of whom are gone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles1960 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 The Miami trade was horrendous. He put himself behind Dallas and the Giants in the hope that he can draft a decent player with Mami's pick next year. Howie is a joke and is Lurie's waterboy. Anybody really think another organization would hire Howie to evaluate personnel if he ever gets fired by the Eagles? This is the clown that picked JJ over Metcalf and Reagor over Jeffserson and I am supposed to have confidence in anything he does? NO. The clown is still trying to justify the Reagor pick last year. Mauybe his plan is to tank 2021. If so he is doing a great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-1000 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 9 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said: I wouldn't even go as far to say that his drafts have been terrible. They've not been good. But this rhetoric that Howie is the worst general manager in the league is so misplaced. The annoying thing is I'm not a fan and want to criticise him, but the hatred is so over the top I find myself having to defend him. As you say he has strengths and weaknesses. He was intergral in our Super Bowl win. He's also been integral in our decline. Before we completely condemn him, let's see how some of these recent picks work out. Can Goedert step up to the pro-bowl potential he has? Will either Mailata or Dillard develop into our long term LT? Can Reagor, Fulgham or Watkins (who all flashed ability in 2020) step up to be legitimate starting WRs? Can Wallace develop into a starting safety? Can we get immediate production out of pick 12? Most importantly - does Hurts like our potential franchise QB in year 2? If the answer to most of these questions is no - then yes it's time to move on. Let's get rid of him before we have all those first rounders. This is exactly how I feel. The over the top Howie bashing to the point of nitpicking every little thing about him is both unoriginal and silly. People seem to forget about all of the draft picks and free agent signings he made which led to the Eagles only SB. I find myself putting on sports talk radio or streams on youtube a lot lately only to turn them off immediately after hearing the same old lazy narratives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Howie is ranked 21 out or 23 returning GMs. Quote 21) Howie Roseman, Eagles Best pick: Dallas Goedert | Round 2 (No. 49), 2018 Worst pick: J.J. Arcega-Whiteside | Round 2 (No. 57), 2019 Roseman's first pick back in charge after the Chip Kelly era was Carson Wentz. Signing Wentz to a massive second contract has proven far more costly (the Eagles have a $33.8 million dead-money hit in 2021, per Over The Cap) than moving up to select him second overall, as Wentz contributed significantly to a Super Bowl title and two other playoff teams. The picks Philadelphia traded away for Wentz, however, left the team with a smaller margin for error that Roseman didn't sufficiently compensate for with quality selections. The next-best picks since 2016 include Dallas Goedert, Miles Sanders, Avonte Maddox and Derek Barnett. Roseman deserves credit for an Eagles roster that was loaded from 2017 to '19, but it wasn't because of recent drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-1000 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, kentwo said: Howie is ranked 21 out or 23 returning GMs. Must be true then. I wonder how many of the 20 GMs ahead of him have constructed a SB winning roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManchesterEagle Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, kentwo said: Howie is ranked 21 out or 23 returning GMs. 3 minutes ago, T-1000 said: Must be true then. I wonder how many of the 20 GMs ahead of him have constructed a SB winning roster. Yeah this is Rosenthal click bait stuff. Rubbish. If we were basing it just on recent picks, we should be easily ahead of the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 6 hours ago, T-1000 said: This is exactly how I feel. The over the top Howie bashing to the point of nitpicking every little thing about him is both unoriginal and silly. People seem to forget about all of the draft picks and free agent signings he made which led to the Eagles only SB. I find myself putting on sports talk radio or streams on youtube a lot lately only to turn them off immediately after hearing the same old lazy narratives. Basically a similar situation to Wentz. People talk about his poor performance last year while ignoring his contribution during the SB year as well as getting the team into the playoffs multiple times. Recency bias helps to explain some of the negativity. But fans and sports talk needs things to talk about and negativity draws higher ratings as it focuses on the hypothetical dream situations rather than the boring pragmatic approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cochis_Calhoun Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 4 hours ago, kentwo said: Basically a similar situation to Wentz. People talk about his poor performance last year while ignoring his contribution during the SB year as well as getting the team into the playoffs multiple times. Recency bias helps to explain some of the negativity. But fans and sports talk needs things to talk about and negativity draws higher ratings as it focuses on the hypothetical dream situations rather than the boring pragmatic approach. It's a similar situation to Wentz in that there a people on the board who consistently overplay a bottled lightning Superbowl win as indicative of a whole career when the remainder was ordinary at best, but we blame it on other factors. Howie is a terrible talent evaluator, a worse cap manager and even on a most charitable reading appears to have gotten into pissing contests with our last two head coaches which ended up with them under the bus at the first losing season. I'll bet you a dollar to a pile of crap, the reason we traded down this year has nothing to do with a specific player, it's that we can't cut or restructure anyone else to get the cap room to pay a top 6 pick, the rest of the draft class and still leave contingency for the season, I wouldn't be surprised to see us trade down again to move more picks to next year. The reason so many people are pissed off at trading down, is because the team needed a top ten talent to lift the the rest of the roster, we thought we had a shot at an elite prospect and instead we're going to pick a Howie special workout warrior speedball DE, not the top guy in the rankings where we pick but a guy with one good college season who's 'an athletic freak with all the tools to succeed with the right coaching' who'll end up playing rotational snaps behind Graham, Barnett and Sweat for 4 years before being quietly released. And I say that in the fervent hope that for the second time in 8 years the dope takes a guy who can contribute at a starter level on day 1and proves me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortimer Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 6:16 PM, ManchesterEagle said: Reminds me a lot of the sleazy hotel guy from Dirty Dancing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 You guys are relentless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeach_Eagle Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 I haven't really been able to pay too close attention to all the goings on, but just came to the realization that we could end up with three 1st round picks next year. So if the Colts, Dolphin s and Eagles all tie for last place in the league, we would own picks #1, 2 and 3. Howie could pick the top 3 QBs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: I haven't really been able to pay too close attention to all the goings on, but just came to the realization that we could end up with three 1st round picks next year. So if the Colts, Dolphin s and Eagles all tie for last place in the league, we would own picks #1, 2 and 3. Howie could pick the top 3 QBs! Super Factory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, EagleJoe8 said: Super Factory! QB monopoly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, Bwestbrook36 said: QB monopoly! If we have all the QBs, we can’t lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeach_Eagle Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: Super Factory! I'm thinking Howie takes those three picks, and trades them to the Colts for Frank and Carson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: I'm thinking Howie takes those three picks, and trades them to the Colts for Frank and Carson... That’ll make people happy. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaBeach_Eagle Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: That’ll make people happy. 😂 It probably would. Howie would be fired 3 minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: It probably would. Howie would be fired 3 minutes later. Lol, true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTW Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said: Super Factory! From University to Factory. Next: QB City! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManchesterEagle Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 Howie gets a lot of abuse on these boards (some of it very much justified), but he absolutely made the right call with this. Chances are Pitts and Chase are both gone at 6. (Also have to remember that Miami only traded with San Fran once they had the trade with us - no guarantee they would have moved out otherwise and they would likely have taken Chase or Pitts) Doesn't excuse JJAW, or the lack of investment on the D, or thinking we can compete in a season with Avante Maddox and Michael Jacquet as our CB2 and 3. But this was a really good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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