EaglesRocker97 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, kentwo said: I felt it was a good move. Remember, other QBs were signing big long term deals around that time and I understand the importance of finding the franchise QB. Performance decline couldn't be attributed to him alone, overall team health declined, especially on the Oline. Offensive talent declined. Defensive talent declined. Still he carried the team to the playoffs with a bunch of guys off the street playing WR. That was pretty impressive. Teams spend years and a ton of draft picks looking for that guy and if you have one you need to keep him. If Hurts isn't the next guy, the Eagles could spend the next few years trying to find their next QB. Just look at teams like WFT, NYJ, NYG, etc... They've been looking for almost a decade for their next starting QB. But the risks made it worth using the remainder of the contract to be sure of the long-term investment. I don't care if it would've cost more. If it ended up costing more, that's because we did our homework and ensured that he was a viable franchise QB, and we wouldn't be in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 People largely forget that 2018 wasn't even that good, either. I thought they kind of rushed him back from the knee injury (knowing Wentz, he would've cried about holding him out then, too), but he wasn't right for the vast majority of that season. You could tell that he just hadn't gotten right yet. The extension was foolhardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 19 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: But the risks made it worth using the remainder of the contract to be sure of the long-term investment. I don't care if it would've cost more. If it ended up costing more, that's because we did our homework and ensured that he was a viable franchise QB, and we wouldn't be in this position. In modern NFL you can’t afford to wait till the last year of a contract to resign a guy. Most players are resigned after the third year of their rookie contract which is what happened. Why wait when you liked the guy enough to trade a ton of picks to get him and saw him perform at a very high level. is there an example of any team waiting to resign their franchise guy in that situation? Waiting could cost you more money but it could also save you money. Money that you would need to sign guys for your championship run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, kentwo said: In modern NFL you can’t afford to wait till the last year of a contract to resign a guy. Most players are resigned after the third year of their rookie contract which is what happened. I never expected them to take it out the life of the contract, but waiting another year was totally reasonable. 12 minutes ago, kentwo said: Why wait when you liked the guy enough to trade a ton of picks to get him and saw him perform at a very high level. You're looking at this in a vacuum. He had a major, multi-ligament knee injury, and his play following it was highly concerning. There was as good of a rationale here as you'll ever see to reason holding off on an extension. Why wait? Because you could end up exactly where we are right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said: I never expected them to take it out the life of the contract, but waiting another year was totally reasonable. You're looking at this in a vacuum. He had a major, multi-ligament knee injury, and his play following it was highly concerning. There was as good of a rationale here as you'll ever see to reason holding off on an extension. Why wait? Because you could end up exactly where we are right now. 2 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: People largely forget that 2018 wasn't even that goo, either. I thought they kind of rushed him back from the knee injury (knowing Wentz, he would've cried about holding him out then, too), but he wasn't right for the vast majority of that season. You could tell that he just hadn't gotten right yet. The extension was foolhardy. The team doctors cleared him of injury. 2018 he was having one of his best years before a different injury appeared. In 2018, he had a 102 rating with 21 TDs and 7 INTs. Had his highest completion rate and highest YPA. His PFF rating was higher than his 2017 year. Was Wentz better in 2018? Obviously, things didn't work out, but at the time it was a sensible signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 hours ago, kentwo said: The team doctors cleared him of injury. 2018 he was having one of his best years before a different injury appeared. In 2018, he had a 102 rating with 21 TDs and 7 INTs. Had his highest completion rate and highest YPA. His PFF rating was higher than his 2017 year. Was Wentz better in 2018? Obviously, things didn't work out, but at the time it was a sensible signing. We obviously remember things differently. He was OK at the beginning of 2018. He was not great or anywhere close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: People largely forget that 2018 wasn't even that goo, either. I thought they kind of rushed him back from the knee injury (knowing Wentz, he would've cried about holding him out then, too), but he wasn't right for the vast majority of that season. You could tell that he just hadn't gotten right yet. The extension was foolhardy. I often times wonder if Wentz would have come back in week 3 if Nick looked better the first two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said: I often times wonder if Wentz would have come back in week 3 if Nick looked better the first two weeks. All I know is if Nick played well the first couple of weeks and Wentz played like he did when he returned, the fans would've been screaming to go back to Foles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: All I know is if Nick played well the first couple of weeks and Wentz played like he did when he returned, the fans would've been screaming to go back to Foles. Probably. If Nick were playing anything close to what he did in the NFCCG and Super Bowl, I have to imagine the narrative would have been, " We’re going to give Carson a little more time and see where he’s at in another week. Nick will start for now.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidrone Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: All I know is if Nick played well the first couple of weeks and Wentz played like he did when he returned, the fans would've been screaming to go back to Foles. Foles was the best thing for the fans, and the worst thing for Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 hours ago, pallidrone said: Foles was the best thing for the fans, and the worst thing for Wentz. You might be right, but I still don't buy it as an excuse for his failures. I mean, I can buy it as a possible cause, but it's a lame excuse to me, because I'd expect a franchise QB to have the confidence to embrace the competition, not wither under the pressure. It should've brought the best out of him, but maybe he just wasn't up to the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 59 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said: I often times wonder if Wentz would have come back in week 3 if Nick looked better the first two weeks. I doubt it, unless Foles was playing out of his mind. Even then, I think the thought process would be to give Wentz a few more weeks to recover from his injury. Read the article I posted earlier. In 2018, he was playing better than 2017. Foles flashes, but has never consistently put up that kind of production. Which is why he can never hold on to a starting job. Quote Wentz's passer rating from Sunday in London was 119.6. It marked the fourth-straight game in which Wentz finished with a passer rating of at least 115. He is the first quarterback in Eagles history to accomplish that. Wentz has thrown at least one touchdown pass with no more than one interception in 21 straight games dating back to 2016. That is tied with Matt Ryan from 2015-17 for the longest streak in NFL history. He hasn't had a multi-interception game in his last 23 starts. Wentz has registered at least 275 passing yards and two touchdowns in five straight games, which is tied with Donovan McNabb for the longest streak in Eagles history. Finally, Wentz is the first Eagles quarterback to complete 70 percent of his passes in three straight games since Randall Cunningham in 1992. His numbers are impressive. They're even more impressive considering his first six games this year coming off a knee injury compare favorably to the first six games of his MVP-caliber 2017 campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTW Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 8 hours ago, pallidrone said: If you are talking about me, that is fine. You can call me whatever you want as it doesn't matter to me. I think there is a lot of disingenuous fans who are motivated only by their emotions and what talk radio tells them. The facts don't matter because it doesn't fit their agenda of hating Howie or Lurie or Wentz or whatever the current outrage of the day is. I wasn't talking about you. And all that stuff about emotion and WIP (I agree with that) isn't what this line of conversation was about. Both here and on social media, majority of fans thought they should not give Wentz an extension until he proved that following season that he could stay healthy and see what he did in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 5 hours ago, kentwo said: I doubt it, unless Foles was playing out of his mind. Even then, I think the thought process would be to give Wentz a few more weeks to recover from his injury. Read the article I posted earlier. In 2018, he was playing better than 2017. Foles flashes, but has never consistently put up that kind of production. Which is why he can never hold on to a starting job. He was not playing better in 2018 than 2017, that's utter nonsense. The numbers to not tell the whole story, especially in this era of cupcake defense and inflated passing numbers. They started out 4-6, and that game against JAX was where they started to turn things around that year, but he had been pretty shaky up to that point. Again, overall he was OK, but nowhere near great in 2018. I have a pretty good memory of that season. I distinctly remember a game against I believe the Panthers early in the year where the Eagles were dominating early but let Carolina back in the game and they took the lead in the 4th quarter (sounds familiar). Wentz had the ball in his hands near the endzone on the final drive, though, with the chance to win the game. On 4th down in the red zone, he had a back wide open in the flat for an easy conversion, but he never saw him. Wentz did a weird scramble, took a sack and fumbled the ball, which was recovered by Carolina to end the game (huh, sounds familiar!). There was a lot of chatter after that game about Wentz's failures in go-ahead situations in the 4th quarter after that game. It was the point that I remember people really began to question whether Wentz had what it took to be a consistent winner at the pro level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 48 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: He was not playing better in 2018 than 2017, that's utter nonsense. The numbers to not tell the whole story, especially in this era of cupcake defense and inflated passing numbers. They started out 4-6, and that game against JAX was where they started to turn things around that year, but he had been pretty shaky up to that point. Again, overall he was OK, but nowhere near great in 2018. The point was that you mentioned he played poorly in 2018, which was not the case. He was playing at a high level and was an above average NFL QB during that season. Based on his play it was totally reasonable to see why the Eagles projected him to be their franchise guy for years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 hour ago, kentwo said: The point was that you mentioned he played poorly in 2018, which was not the case. He was playing at a high level and was an above average NFL QB during that season. Based on his play it was totally reasonable to see why the Eagles projected him to be their franchise guy for years to come. He was playing so well that he led them to an impressive 4-6 start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidrone Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 2 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: You might be right, but I still don't buy it as an excuse for his failures. I mean, I can buy it as a possible cause, but it's a lame excuse to me, because I'd expect a franchise QB to have the confidence to embrace the competition, not wither under the pressure. It should've brought the best out of him, but maybe he just wasn't up to the task. I agree 1000%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 3 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: He was playing so well that he led them to an impressive 4-6 start. I guess you're saying that averaging 280 yards per game with a 3-1 TD/INT ratio is terrible for a starting QB. I'm not sure what kind of production you're expecting out of him. I forgot that he also played defense that year and gave up 344 yards and three TDs to Mariota. Or 181 yards and two TDs to Zeke. 546 yards to NO. Or 455 yards and three TDs to Dak. No wonder they were 5-6 when he started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 6 hours ago, kentwo said: I guess you're saying that averaging 280 yards per game with a 3-1 TD/INT ratio is terrible for a starting QB. No, I'm not saying that. I said repeatedly that he was OK that year but nowhere near great, which is the level you'd expect him to be for 30+ million/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentwo Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 5 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: No, I'm not saying that. I said repeatedly that he was OK that year but nowhere near great, which is the level you'd expect him to be for 30+ million/year. That is a reasonable opinion. At the time, his level of play was above average and his projected future development was high. With QB being the most important position and the most difficult to find teams always lock up young QBs before they become too expensive. Wentz's 32mil/year was in line with other signings around that time Goff 33.5mil/year, Cousins 33mil/year, Tannehill 29.5mil/year, Garoppolo 27.5mil/year, Ryan 30mil/year. No one predicted he'd fall off a cliff in 2020 and play as poorly as he did, but that could be an aberration. We will see how it plays out long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesRocker97 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, kentwo said: That is a reasonable opinion. At the time, his level of play was above average and his projected future development was high. With QB being the most important position and the most difficult to find teams always lock up young QBs before they become too expensive. Wentz's 32mil/year was in line with other signings around that time Goff 33.5mil/year, Cousins 33mil/year, Tannehill 29.5mil/year, Garoppolo 27.5mil/year, Ryan 30mil/year. No one predicted he'd fall off a cliff in 2020 and play as poorly as he did, but that could be an aberration. We will see how it plays out long term. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 40 minutes ago, kentwo said: That is a reasonable opinion. At the time, his level of play was above average and his projected future development was high. With QB being the most important position and the most difficult to find teams always lock up young QBs before they become too expensive. Wentz's 32mil/year was in line with other signings around that time Goff 33.5mil/year, Cousins 33mil/year, Tannehill 29.5mil/year, Garoppolo 27.5mil/year, Ryan 30mil/year. No one predicted he'd fall off a cliff in 2020 and play as poorly as he did, but that could be an aberration. We will see how it plays out long term. I look at it this way, another team was willing to take on that contract and give up picks on top of it even after that crap year Wentz just had... That says to me other teams believe he is still worth that contract and picks on top of it while we sit here and still complain about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 34 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said: I look at it this way, another team was willing to take on that contract and give up picks on top of it even after that crap year Wentz just had... That says to me other teams believe he is still worth that contract and picks on top of it while we sit here and still complain about it... Oh absolutely. That was always the hope for any team trading for Wentz. They believed he could get back to at least what he was in 2019 and perhaps even 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: Oh absolutely. That was always the hope for any team trading for Wentz. They believed he could get back to at least what he was in 2019 and perhaps even 2017. Well if he does then this franchise looks like a bunch of dysfunctional idiots once again. So he probably will get back to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said: Well if he does then this franchise looks like a bunch of dysfunctional idiots once again. So he probably will get back to that. I mean if he gets back to 2017 Wentz then yes absolutely. 2019 not so much. I mean the last 4 games in 2019? Yeah he was really good but the rest of the year he wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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