1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

Suddenly, vaccines are suspect.

Flu shots, made on the fly every year are lapped up. Why? What's the long term outlook?

Look at what has happened in the past? The horrible after effects of the Polio vaccines, tested for two years on 1.6 million kids before being rolled out on a national level.

 

Oh the friggin' horror!!

Actually I think they only get around 50% of people getting them

2 hours ago, TEW said:

Well that’s the whole point of a black swan: you don’t know. That’s why it’s a black swan. It’s an unknown unknown.

Right but if we’re randomly attributing a God from the Machine scenario then we can attribute it to any vaccine. No vaccine was tested indefinitely. 

6 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Right but if we’re randomly attributing a God from the Machine scenario then we can attribute it to any vaccine. No vaccine was tested indefinitely. 

Sure. I agree — you can’t test indefinitely. At some point you roll it out and extend it to progressively younger people.

But I would just be very cautious with the youth of our country. If it has some catastrophic unforeseen effect, and you do it to an entire generation of people, that is something that could make what is already a national emergency into something that does irreversible harm and cripples us as a country. Not worth the risk IMO.

Like I said, I’d get adults vaccinated and as we have more and more time related data we can slowly extend the vaccine downward as it proves over time to be safe in adults. No reason to risk the youth of the nation when they are the least vulnerable. Just my opinion. I know this has turned into another mindless sh** throwing fest so I don’t expect to change any minds.

33 minutes ago, TEW said:

Sure. I agree — you can’t test indefinitely. At some point you roll it out and extend it to progressively younger people.

But I would just be very cautious with the youth of our country. If it has some catastrophic unforeseen effect, and you do it to an entire generation of people, that is something that could make what is already a national emergency into something that does irreversible harm and cripples us as a country. Not worth the risk IMO.

Like I said, I’d get adults vaccinated and as we have more and more time related data we can slowly extend the vaccine downward as it proves over time to be safe in adults. No reason to risk the youth of the nation when they are the least vulnerable. Just my opinion. I know this has turned into another mindless sh** throwing fest so I don’t expect to change any minds.

The alternative is letting Delta infect that entire generation of kids when we already know infection is associated with shrinkage of brain tissue, pulmonary fibrosis, degraded cognitive function, etc. Those seem kinda catastrophic and potentially irreversible too. We might even be underestimating the long-term effects of a novel virus that binds really well to ACE2 receptors which are found in some pretty critical organs. The real danger is staring us square in the face and you've got your eyes shut while conjuring up fictional scenarios with no plausible basis in science.

47 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Right but if we’re randomly attributing a God from the Machine scenario then we can attribute it to any vaccine. No vaccine was tested indefinitely. 

Yep. Or far more likely, to the actual virus itself that we're vaccinating against.

I have seen this generation of kids. We aren’t really risking much. Give them the shots. 

I think these booster shots might prove more effective if delivered at the base of the skull

5 hours ago, Procus said:

Hardly.  The lions share of those expressing skepticism with regard to leaky Covid vaccines point the how new the virus is and how rushed the vaccine development was.  The vaccines didn't become available to the general public until 2021, and mid-year, just a few months after the rollout began, boosters were proclaimed to be required.  Vaccinated people are getting sick and dying in large numbers.  There is also a healthy dose of skepticism that Covid is being used as cover for political power grabs, economic makeovers and restriction of individual liberties.  So skepticism about the Covid vaccines is encompassed in skepticism about everything associated with Covid in general. 

These are by no stretch of the matter in the same league as the smallpox vaccine or polio vaccines - vaccines which for all intents and purposes, eliminated those diseases.

Regarding your points, here are counterpoints from a right-leaning perspective that also counter left-leaning perspectives:

 

Regarding the dying, of course people who are vaccinated will encompass a higher and higher percentage of those testing positive or hospitalized or dying, as the percentage of vaccinated continues to rise.  At some point, if 100% of the nation or world are vaccinated, then 100% of deaths or positive tests will be the vaccinated.  Thus, neither side should look at the percentage of vaccinated people dying or testing positive.  Right-leaners should not see this as evidence that the vaccine is not working.  Left-leaners should also not use this as evidence of skepticism of the vaccine, thereby requiring more restrictions.

 

Regarding political power grabs, we know that this was true, with Australia being the most blatant offenders.  For right-leaners, the vaccine is the way out, and anyone looking for further restrictions or more restrictions, particularly for the vaccinated, should be reminded that the narrative in the fall of 2020 was that the vaccine was the way out of the pandemic. Would these people be willing to say that the vaccine is not the way out of the pandemic?

 

I still think back to where things were in the fall of 2020, and how things flipped so quickly.  Back exactly a year ago, Republicans looked forward to the vaccine and praised the government fast-tracking the approval process.  Democrats viewed the vaccine with heavy skepticism.  Some of the people who were skeptical (don't forget that our current Vice President was skeptical of the vaccine), now favor vaccine mandates.  Of course, people were skeptical of the vaccine because Donald Trump was President, and anything he is involved with has to be bad.  Everyone is still waiting for these people to apologize and correct themselves for being critical of the vaccine when Trump was President.  Only Jake Tapper has come out and said that he was wrong, from what I've seen.

6 hours ago, Procus said:

These are by no stretch of the matter in the same league as the smallpox vaccine or polio vaccines - vaccines which for all intents and purposes, eliminated those diseases.

While researching COVID-19 I ran across numerous presentations such as the link below, you can find similar presentations for smallpox.  Most virologists claim that no vaccine is safe and effective.

DID THE POLIO VACCINE REALLY ERADICATE POLIO?

5 hours ago, EagleVA said:

While researching COVID-19 I ran across numerous presentations such as the link below, you can find similar presentations for smallpox.  Most virologists claim that no vaccine is safe and effective.

DID THE POLIO VACCINE REALLY ERADICATE POLIO?

You just keep choosing ignorance. In today's information age.

Huh.

Montana confirms first influenza case in more than a year

https://www.kbzk.com/news/montana-news/montana-confirms-first-influenza-case-in-more-than-a-year

So weird. I wonder how that can be?

1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

You just keep choosing ignorance. In today's information age.

Huh.

Just sharing information, do what you see fit with it.

26 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Just sharing information, do what you see fit with it.

I did. I am astounded at your ability to research.

It involves watching crackpots and not questioning anything they say.

Enjoy!

The left really needs to stop appropriating the right's memes. 

7 hours ago, EagleVA said:

While researching COVID-19 I ran across numerous presentations such as the link below, you can find similar presentations for smallpox.  Most virologists claim that no vaccine is safe and effective.

DID THE POLIO VACCINE REALLY ERADICATE POLIO?

And lady's and gentleman, I give you another bit chute link lmao.

9 hours ago, xzmattzx said:

I still think back to where things were in the fall of 2020, and how things flipped so quickly.  Back exactly a year ago, Republicans looked forward to the vaccine and praised the government fast-tracking the approval process.  Democrats viewed the vaccine with heavy skepticism.  Some of the people who were skeptical (don't forget that our current Vice President was skeptical of the vaccine), now favor vaccine mandates.  Of course, people were skeptical of the vaccine because Donald Trump was President, and anything he is involved with has to be bad.  Everyone is still waiting for these people to apologize and correct themselves for being critical of the vaccine when Trump was President.  Only Jake Tapper has come out and said that he was wrong, from what I've seen.

This is complete revisionist history.  Biden and Harris stating that they would take the word of the scientists over the word of Trump where the vaccine is concerned doesn't mean "Democrats viewed the vaccine with heavy skepticism".

sheets about to get real at my work.  

 

part of an email they just sent out:

Quote

The second Executive Order directed OSHA to develop and implement an Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) requiring employers with over 100 employees to require that either their employees be fully vaccinated or be required to provide proof of a negative test on a weekly basis. This Order (and the upcoming ETS) is expected to apply to all Hunt Enterprises locations and employees.

19 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

sheets about to get real at my work.  

 

part of an email they just sent out:

Making progress!

2 minutes ago, Toty said:

you hiring?

my strengths are

• photoshop
• ****ion

i have a feeling i will be hiring soon.   

you sound like management material...i'll get back to you. 

 

I am working from home today.  We have a positive case in the office.  Few more hackers in there too.  I was not in close contact with this person, but thanks to being old and having some health issues, it causes me to be paranoid.  I am getting really used to being alone and by doing so I have much less anxiety.  I have a runny nose and a bit of a sore throat so I went and got tested yesterday.  Cancelled a visit with friends last night, a funeral and a happy hour today.  Bah!

1 minute ago, DiPros said:

I am working from home today.  We have a positive case in the office.  Few more hackers in there too.  I was not in close contact with this person, but thanks to being old and having some health issues, it causes me to be paranoid.  I am getting really used to being alone and by doing so I have much less anxiety.  I have a runny nose and a bit of a sore throat so I went and got tested yesterday.  Cancelled a visit with friends last night, a funeral and a happy hour today.  Bah!

Never seems to get any easier. Sorry Di.

We took a good friend to the hospital last night - stage 4 liver cancer. She ate a hole through her stomach with advil and tylenol (avoiding taking narcotics) and had to have emergency surgery last night. Not sure if her son (in school in Italy) who is coming home Sunday will make it in time. They advised against surgery but she was in so much pain. . .

Life is short, folks.

23 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

 

got an appt for today...after work. this will be my 5th covid vaccine!  so looking forward to it!    

got my fauci booster yesterday...no problems.  also got a flu shot for good measure...so i'm pretty much f'n invincible right now! 

4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

got my fauci booster yesterday...no problems.  also got a flu shot for good measure...so i'm pretty much f'n invincible right now! 

Updated pic of your face with the addition of the flu shot?

Edit:  Nevermind, I found it

4 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Never seems to get any easier. Sorry Di.

We took a good friend to the hospital last night - stage 4 liver cancer. She ate a hole through her stomach with advil and tylenol (avoiding taking narcotics) and had to have emergency surgery last night. Not sure if her son (in school in Italy) who is coming home Sunday will make it in time. They advised against surgery but she was in so much pain. . .

Life is short, folks.

Yes it is Toast!  Thankful for each and everyday.  I'm also ready to go too, already have my name on the stone!  So sorry about your friend.  The friend I cancelled with last night was just diagnosed with stage IV lung cancer.  When I test negative for covid,  I will try and see her next week before she starts chemo.

I recently had an ultrasound that showed my liver is enlarged.  I also have a Schatzki's ring in my esophagus.  Going to do a liver function blood test next month.  Now I have another doctor! This GI practice is so busy, they have yet to call me to schedule getting the endoscopy to fix the ring.  So I eat less now and slower and have lost 5 lbs.  I feel good even though I have cut my wine drinking down to almost nothing!!!