6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

People are too stupid on average to have as many choices for media (including news) consumption as we have. 

We're now at a place where social media is now manufacturing the news and it's being picked up by Fox/MSNBC etc. 

Yep.  I've had an entire career in the technology and communications field and have worked on several of the key building blocks from internet to mobile both technically and commercially.  Over the last few years I've been becoming more and more concerned with how fast we moved things forward.  While there has been fantastic value added globally and locally for 90% of the people on the planet, we have unfortunately not really been able to keep up culturally, politically, or legally to be able to handle all the change without some pretty disastrous side effects.

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Politics is in large part driven by society here. Nakedly partisan media has contributed to a more partisan society, which is reflected in more partisan government, which reinforces the media cycle.

There's some chicken and egg arguments that could be had, but the major contributor to the heat being turned up here is how people get their "news" now vs 30 years ago. Fox is but one player; traditional media is losing share to crackpots on social media.

Newsmax, which is a nuttier version of Fox News, has been running radio ads down here in NC promoting their coverage of American politics.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Yeah, I more or less agree with this.

Social media has played a part.  Partisan radio another part.  Fox a main contributor.  Two party system a part.  Trump a big part in putting this whole thing on steroids.  Wacky left woke crap yet another player in the game.

Overall, I do think the entire shift in how people consume information is the underlying driver.  There isn't any filtering going on anymore.  While that filtering often restricted important information it also provided a mechanism helping to keep society grounded.  That's all gone now.

Fox changed their approach in 2020 because they were losing viewers to Newsmax and OAN.  Then the few remaining "normal” anchors left to go elsewhere.

1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

Small period changes after Covid jab seen to be short-lived

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-60139091

If this is why some of you are holding back from getting the vaccine, it's okay.

This has definitely been one of the issues for Kz. He’s said to me as much in PMs. Him and Mikemack’s periods are synced up and I think he’s worried that the shot will throw it out of whack. I keep telling him that there’s more to him and mikes relationship than simultaneous vaginal bleeding but you know Kz, he’s very emotional. 

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Omicron is for most not a big deal to deal with. But a cavalier attitude towards it is why hospitals are being overrun and healthcare workers are quitting.

This is why vaccinations are so important. Israel has been cited, and while plenty of vaccinated and boosted are ending up hospitalized the rates of hospitalization for unvaccinated are still much much higher. The over 60 population is 85% boosted, but only 60% of those over 60 who end up hospitalized are boosted. This is cited of course by morons who think it bolsters their argument that vaccines aren't worth it, bit the huge gap there shows that it is: 40% of hospitalizations are coming from 15% of the population. That's a huge number.

Yep. And why are our vaccination / booster rates so low? Because morons like outlaw insist on referring to this as a "mild cold" not realizing that those words are taken at face value and influence people to just take their chances with the virus without sufficient protection. 

Remember all those comments that "omicron hasn't even caused any deaths yet" back in December? Yeah well those all aged really well now didn't they...

 

9 minutes ago, Toty said:

I hate how senate/house floor speeches and confirmation hearings have turned into Shakespeare in The Park.

Performative BS. Performative BS everywhere.

Why? Because rubes eat it up.

For four years we had a moron LARPing as president, and idiots bought into his schtick as representing some kind of progress. 

The guy's only real achievement was throwing cash at pharmaceuticals and short circuiting the approvals process for vaccines. OWS was good, but it was basically the "well yeah, duh" solution - it's what any president would have done. (Meanwhile he spent the rest of his idle time during the pandemic hawking hydroxychloroquine and making suggestions on treatments that would have earned him a laugh track on Cheers).

But hey, he "told it like it is," right? That's what qualifies as "Presidential" for his supporters. 

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yep. And why are our vaccination / booster rates so low? Because morons like outlaw insist on referring to this as a "mild cold" not realizing that those words are taken at face value and influence people to just take their chances with the virus without sufficient protection. 

Remember all those comments that "omicron hasn't even caused any deaths yet" back in December? Yeah well those all aged really well now didn't they...

 

If this wasn't so crushing to the healthcare providers I'd have a "if they're not vaccinated by now frack em" mentality.

Which is why I'd like to see vaccination status as a consideration when triaging and prioritizing care.

41 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yep. And why are our vaccination / booster rates so low? Because morons like outlaw insist on referring to this as a "mild cold" not realizing that those words are taken at face value and influence people to just take their chances with the virus without sufficient protection. 

Remember all those comments that "omicron hasn't even caused any deaths yet" back in December? Yeah well those all aged really well now didn't they...

 

I can't speak for all the unvaccinated, but I know I canceled my appointment for the first Moderna shot when I read one of Outlaw's posts on here. Sadly, we'll never know the true death toll of his posts in CVON. 

Meanwhile, Swedish health officials are now recommending against the vaccination of children aged 5-11 because the small benefits don't outweigh the risks.

Quote

The decision was presented during the authorities' joint press conference on Thursday afternoon.

The authority's department head Britta Björkholm then said that it had decided not to recommend general vaccination against covid-19 for children between five and eleven years of age.

- The medical benefit of two doses of vaccine for children is currently judged to be small, she said.

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/bGdV0g/fhm-ingen-covidvaccination-for-barn-mellan-fem-och-elva-ar

So, as a big fan of science, I trust their judgement. Wouldn't want to disagree with science. 

29 minutes ago, Toty said:

I think they've done this whole thing wrong from the beginning and all the way through. 

Many lives and a lot of money - I think - could have been saved with a drastically different approach -

some "facts" first:

• The people who are very vulnerable to severe illness or death by COVID represent a fairly small fraction of the population.
• Not all - but a large portion of the vulnerable are elderly or already sick and either home or facility-bound. 
• Mask and vaccine mandates and broad lockdowns disrupt society, especially over long periods (side note: Some people would rather die than do something that they're being ordered to do, no matter what it is. The harder you push, the more they resist. There will always be a critical mass of people like that in any free society.)
• I used to get a boner from the mom in Mr. Belvedere

so, do this:

• Identify the most vulnerable - using the same prioritization process they had for the vaccine rollouts.
• Here's the hard part - Isolate everyone in that category that is willing. Make sure they have all the supplies they need on a regular basis. Provide home medical or nursing care if needed. Compensate families missing work due to isolation. Buy entire hotels (like we do for criminals and illegals) for those who can't isolate at home or who need to be separated from the hospital population.
• Get shots in willing arms
• Distribute MASKS THAT WORK to the population

This is sort of "reverse quarantine". Instead of making everybody quarantine, pre-emptively separate the ones that could die until it's under control. Sound expensive? My guess is it would be a drop in the bucket.

Monday morning QB, I know

Who's being forced to quarantine?  I keep hearing this point made on here about forced lockdowns and I'm looking around wondering where it's happening.  I've never been forced to quarantine once.  And no one else in GA has been either.  

What's happened here is, from what I can tell, pretty typical for the south anyway.  People that were vulnerable and wanted to isolate did.  No one was forced to and there aren't any state ordinances requiring masking or vaccine mandates.  And no one's been willingly on lockdown since the very first couple weeks of the pandemic.  And we have one of the worst vaccination rates in the country, so clearly the hands-off approach hasn't helped.

Yeah there hasn't been a "quarantine" here either since April 2020. Would be curious to see exactly what states/cities have had one in the past 18 months. My guess is exceedingly few. 

5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Who's being forced to quarantine?  I keep hearing this point made on here about forced lockdowns and I'm looking around wondering where it's happening.  I've never been forced to quarantine once.  And no one else in GA has been either.  

What's happened here is, from what I can tell, pretty typical for the south anyway.  People that were vulnerable and wanted to isolate did.  No one was forced to and there aren't any state ordinances requiring masking or vaccine mandates.  And no one's been willingly on lockdown since the very first couple weeks of the pandemic.  And we have one of the worst vaccination rates in the country, so clearly the hands-off approach hasn't helped.

It happened pretty early on in the pandemic when everyone was at full neurotic panic.

Here's an article about which states you could get arrested in for breaking quarantine:

https://www.newsweek.com/these-states-you-can-get-arrested-breaking-quarantine-1503514

Here's some cases where it happened:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2020/05/14/nashville-man-arrested-breaking-quarantine-released-bail-nonprofit-pays-bail/5190238002/

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/florida-pair-arrested-breaking-covid-19-quarantine-order-72086674

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2020/03/16/coronavirus-kentucky-state-law-allows-involuntary-quarantine/5060657002/

And Hawaii has dozens of examples and still enforces it pretty stringently.

Just now, Toty said:

"Making" was a sloppy word on my part. There were extended periods of time when schools were closed, many people had to work from home, many businesses closed or became delivery-only, etc. A lot of this lasted for nearly a year until they could get the vaccine out.

I don't really understand the statement that "no one's been willingly on lockdown since the very first couple weeks of the pandemic", though. 

Yeah, that was probably a weird way to say that.  I meant I don't know anyone, outside of the higher risk people, that have chosen to lockdown since the beginning.  Everyone's just living their life.

I'm just not buying the notion that the government has been too heavy handed and that's why people aren't getting vaccinated.  The government here has been pretty hands off.  People aren't getting vaxxed because of their political affiliations for the most part (there are other factors, but that seems to be the most correlative data point we have).  There's nothing the government can do about that.

4 minutes ago, Kz! said:

It happened pretty early on in the pandemic when everyone was at full neurotic panic.

Here's an article about which states you could get arrested in for breaking quarantine:

https://www.newsweek.com/these-states-you-can-get-arrested-breaking-quarantine-1503514

Here's some cases where it happened:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2020/05/14/nashville-man-arrested-breaking-quarantine-released-bail-nonprofit-pays-bail/5190238002/

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/florida-pair-arrested-breaking-covid-19-quarantine-order-72086674

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2020/03/16/coronavirus-kentucky-state-law-allows-involuntary-quarantine/5060657002/

And Hawaii has dozens of examples and still enforces it pretty stringently.

If it happened in the first couple of weeks, why are people like yourself still talking about it like it's still happening nearly 2 years later?

8 minutes ago, Toty said:

"Making" was a sloppy word on my part. There were extended periods of time when schools were closed, many people had to work from home, many businesses closed or became delivery-only, etc. A lot of this lasted for nearly a year until they could get the vaccine out.

I don't really understand the statement that "no one's been willingly on lockdown since the very first couple weeks of the pandemic", though. 

He's likely referring to his state, which is Georgia or Alabama if I recall. Every state has handled this differently, and a federally coordinated response to the level that you're suggesting was never possible. Hell, even when a centrally coordinated response at the state level was attempted (e.g. in Michigan) the legislature stripped the governor of her authority to do so. 

Once the virus became a political football very early on, we were destined for this outcome. One side determined on downplaying it at every turn, the other pulling their hair out that people can literally be so stupid.

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

Yeah, that was probably a weird way to say that.  I meant I don't know anyone, outside of the higher risk people, that have chosen to lockdown since the beginning.  Everyone's just living their life.

I'm just not buying the notion that the government has been too heavy handed and that's why people aren't getting vaccinated.  The government here has been pretty hands off.  People aren't getting vaxxed because of their political affiliations for the most part (there are other factors, but that seems to be the most correlative data point we have).  There's nothing the government can do about that.

If it happened in the first couple of weeks, why are people like yourself still talking about it like it's still happening nearly 2 years later?

I'm not sure I'm still talking about it regularly unless the specific subject comes up. But if you look globally, it's still a big issue in other countries like Canada and Australia, and, obviously, if dem politicians could get away with it, they'd absolutely want to do it here. 

As for the bolded, Biden literally tried to deprive people of their livelihoods for not getting vaccinated. I mean, lol lmao, come on. 

6 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Yeah, that was probably a weird way to say that.  I meant I don't know anyone, outside of the higher risk people, that have chosen to lockdown since the beginning.  Everyone's just living their life.

I'm just not buying the notion that the government has been too heavy handed and that's why people aren't getting vaccinated.  The government here has been pretty hands off.  People aren't getting vaxxed because of their political affiliations for the most part (there are other factors, but that seems to be the most correlative data point we have).  There's nothing the government can do about that.

If it happened in the first couple of weeks, why are people like yourself still talking about it like it's still happening nearly 2 years later?

I'd say political affiliations and/or ignorance. I know a lot of people that lean democrat who still aren't boosted. "Just haven't gotten around to it" or something to that effect. 

2 minutes ago, Kz! said:

I'm not sure I'm still talking about it regularly unless the specific subject comes up. But if you look globally, it's still a big issue in other countries like Canada and Australia, and, obviously, if dem politicians could get away with it, they'd absolutely want to do it here. 

As for the bolded, Biden literally tried to deprive people of their livelihoods for not getting vaccinated. I mean, lol lmao, come on. 

So, it's not happening and is purely theoretical, even though Dems control the government right now, which is why the right screams about it all day and night.  Got it.

9 minutes ago, Kz! said:

As for the bolded, Biden literally tried to deprive people of their livelihoods for not getting vaccinated. I mean, lol lmao, come on. 

So you think the reason Republicans haven't gotten vaxxed is because Biden tried to implement a vaccine mandate 10 months after the vaccine was introduced?  

20 minutes ago, Toty said:

"Making" was a sloppy word on my part. There were extended periods of time when schools were closed, many people had to work from home, many businesses closed or became delivery-only, etc. A lot of this lasted for nearly a year until they could get the vaccine out.

I don't really understand the statement that "no one's been willingly on lockdown since the very first couple weeks of the pandemic", though. 

The issue early on was the unknowns. We didn't know with reasonable confidence how much risk this virus was for different demographics, and even knowing that the elderly and those with pulmonary related preexisting conditions were the highest risk there were deaths across the spectrum with the original variants. 

We had some idea of what we were dealing with, but not nearly enough to surgically employ quarantines/etc.

And then you have the real world issues of the elderly/etc complaining of unequal and unfair treatment, which surely would have become some kind of political movement.

FWIW, my boss - young guy, just turned 39 - just lost a friend. Same age, bodybuilder, great health. Unvaccinated. Two others were in with him with the same risk profile, one they thought for sure was a goner because he developed some kind of lung condition that's 99% fatal in these cases but both of them survived.

You never want to build policy around outliers, but that doesn't mean they aren't our there in numbers.

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

So you think the reason Republicans haven't gotten vaxxed is because Biden tried to implement a vaccine mandate 10 months after the vaccine was introduced?  

Nope. I was specifically taking issue with your comment that Biden hasn't been heavy-handed in their approach to forcing the vaccine on people. They very obviously have been.   

5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

So you think the reason Republicans haven't gotten vaxxed is because Biden tried to implement a vaccine mandate 10 months after the vaccine was introduced?  

Doctors in Spring 2021: Get vaccinated

Doctors in Summer 2021: There's a new variant, you really need to get vaccinated.

Doctors in Fall 2021: Seriously, why are you still not vaccinated?

Democrat President in Winter 2021: Get vaccinated or find a new job.

Morons:

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The issue early on was the unknowns. We didn't know with reasonable confidence how much risk this virus was for different demographics, and even knowing that the elderly and those with pulmonary related preexisting conditions were the highest risk there were deaths across the spectrum with the original variants. 

We had some idea of what we were dealing with, but not nearly enough to surgically employ quarantines/etc.

And then you have the real world issues of the elderly/etc complaining of unequal and unfair treatment, which surely would have become some kind of political movement.

FWIW, my boss - young guy, just turned 39 - just lost a friend. Same age, bodybuilder, great health. Unvaccinated. Two others were in with him with the same risk profile, one they thought for sure was a goner because he developed some kind of lung condition that's 99% fatal in these cases but both of them survived.

You never want to build policy around outliers, but that doesn't mean they aren't our there in numbers.

There's statistically almost no chance you're not making this up. Even so, I'm very sad to hear of young Albert's passing.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Doctors in Spring 2021: Get vaccinated

Doctors in Summer 2021: There's a new variant, you really need to get vaccinated.

Doctors in Fall 2021: Seriously, why are you still not vaccinated?

Democrat President in Winter 2021: Get vaccinated or find a new job.

Morons:

Doctors now: well there's absolutely zero distinction in transmission rates between the vaxxed and the unvaxxed, but still get vaccinated anyway please.  

JFC, the stupidity burns.

2 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Nope. I was specifically taking issue with your comment that Biden hasn't been heavy-handed in their approach to forcing the vaccine on people. They very obviously have been.   

My comment was specifically in relation to vaccination numbers.  You should read the whole comment before getting blinded with rage.