March 11, 20224 yr 28 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Here we go again... ...trigger warning!!!! Masking is a religion for some, it is like telling them their god does not exist, at this point just leave them alone, let them have their masks and be happy
March 11, 20224 yr 32 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Here we go again... ...trigger warning!!!! https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=932001119069121121021122016089126113046076048031004017071002069123027024102103003030124002121124043057052123125018098110002093106061094046072000086103124086070119095042050095007112107026007106125089007086107095126001080018102112082090111028005074105065&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE Note: This study is a preprint so take it for what it is worth. Hard to draw conclusions from 2 different student patient populations. The no mandatory face mask group is younger and in preschool compared to the mandatory group (3-5 preschoolers vs 6-11 primary school kids). We already knew little kids tend to transmit it less so that's a pretty poor study design and overreaching conclusion.
March 11, 20224 yr 17 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said: Masking is a religion for some, it is like telling them their god does not exist, at this point just leave them alone, let them have their masks and be happy Taking every issue to the absolute extreme is also a religion for some, and by some I meant you.
March 11, 20224 yr 32 minutes ago, Toastrel said: But you're not against masks. As I've said about 99 times in here, I'm totally supportive of them for some scenarios and situations and I'm against them in others. Also, yes, I've worn them on many many many occasions during the pandemic and did so voluntarily as we had no actual mandates except for in places like hospitals and some few stores that chose to require them. In the "kids under 12 in school" category I'm in the "against" camp.
March 11, 20224 yr 20 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Hard to draw conclusions from 2 different student patient populations. The no mandatory face mask group is younger and in preschool compared to the mandatory group (3-5 preschoolers vs 6-11 primary school kids). We already knew little kids tend to transmit it less so that's a pretty poor study design and overreaching conclusion. It is a preprint so let's so if it is debunked.
March 11, 20224 yr 26 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Hard to draw conclusions from 2 different student patient populations. The no mandatory face mask group is younger and in preschool compared to the mandatory group (3-5 preschoolers vs 6-11 primary school kids). We already knew little kids tend to transmit it less so that's a pretty poor study design and overreaching conclusion. btw - The main conclusions were drawn by looking at the differences between the group of 5yr olds vs. the groups of 6yr olds. Still a difference in age but the conclusions weren't based on the overall differences between the two larger groups.
March 11, 20224 yr Anecdotal, but of the group of neighbors and kids my daughter is friends with (14 of them across K-3), those who stopped wearing masks have had 2 positive cases among them (10 kids) in the past week, while the 4 of them still wearing masks have avoided infection so far in this latest outbreak. One of the kids asked his mom to stop wearing it after the mandate was dropped, she agreed, and he literally came down with covid 4 days later.
March 11, 20224 yr 28 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: btw - The main conclusions were drawn by looking at the differences between the group of 5yr olds vs. the groups of 6yr olds. Still a difference in age but the conclusions weren't based on the overall differences between the two larger groups. It's a closer age range but, at least in the US, a significant difference in classroom size, students/class, exposure to other classes etc. Obviously can't speak to the school structure in Spain. Just seems like a lot of confounding factors to draw much of anything from.
March 11, 20224 yr 40 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: As I've said about 99 times in here, I'm totally supportive of them for some scenarios and situations and I'm against them in others. Also, yes, I've worn them on many many many occasions during the pandemic and did so voluntarily as we had no actual mandates except for in places like hospitals and some few stores that chose to require them. In the "kids under 12 in school" category I'm in the "against" camp. How many times do we need to go over this? Masks are an effective tool at lessening the spread of infection. It is not a sinister mask lobby. It is not evil Dr. Faucci making up BS. My wife is an EMT, my sister an RN, my mother in law an RN/Red Cross nurse for decades, and regardless of right or left, or which side of the family, all the medical people agree on what masks do, and why and when you wear them. THEY ARE NOT FOR YOU. Which is why they are problematic. People have to be willing to do for others.
March 11, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, DrPhilly said: Here we go again... ...trigger warning!!!! https://deliverypdf.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=932001119069121121021122016089126113046076048031004017071002069123027024102103003030124002121124043057052123125018098110002093106061094046072000086103124086070119095042050095007112107026007106125089007086107095126001080018102112082090111028005074105065&EXT=pdf&INDEX=TRUE Note: This study is a preprint so take it for what it is worth. Predicting a lot of "reeees" in response to this.
March 11, 20224 yr 19 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: It's a closer age range but, at least in the US, a significant difference in classroom size, students/class, exposure to other classes etc. Obviously can't speak to the school structure in Spain. Just seems like a lot of confounding factors to draw much of anything from. Understood. Not an exact copy. We need to see what people make of the data and how they interpret various parameters against each other. This type of thing is the issue with all of these studies. There really isn't any good way to really separate out the exact "mask" component from everything else.
March 11, 20224 yr 26 minutes ago, Toastrel said: How many times do we need to go over this? Masks are an effective tool at lessening the spread of infection. It is not a sinister mask lobby. It is not evil Dr. Faucci making up BS. My wife is an EMT, my sister an RN, my mother in law an RN/Red Cross nurse for decades, and regardless of right or left, or which side of the family, all the medical people agree on what masks do, and why and when you wear them. THEY ARE NOT FOR YOU. Which is why they are problematic. People have to be willing to do for others. How many times do we have to go over this? Masks have varying effects in varying situations and across varying types of individuals and at varying stages of the pandemic. Good ole Dr Facci and the CDC agree to this. Why can't you? My best friend in the US is an MD, my best friend's wife in Sweden is an RN, my closest colleague's husband is a nurse on the COVID ward, my best American friend's wife in Sweden is also a nurse on a COVID ward, my wife's business co-owner's is head of one of the largest hospitals in Stockholm. I've spoken with all of them and they all agree, yes, masks are useful. None of them agree they should be mandatory for school children. I'm 100% for them and have worn them a lot. How hard is it for you to understand that? School kids don't add much value and at a high cost.
March 11, 20224 yr Remember guys, this^ is the same clown who defended Bret Weinstein and claimed he wasn't anti-vax. Also the same clown who once challenged effectiveness of mask mandates in any setting, and when pressed to provide reasoning, he said he would explain further after the 2020 election. So when he says he's not anti-mask, know that it's a load of horseshit as always.
March 11, 20224 yr 11 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: How many times do we have to go over this? Masks have varying effects in varying situations and across varying types of individuals and at varying stages of the pandemic. Good ole Dr Facci and the CDC agree to this. Why can't you? My best friend in the US is an MD, my best friend's wife in Sweden is an RN, my closest colleague's husband is a nurse on the COVID ward, my best American friend's wife in Sweden is also a nurse on a COVID ward, my wife's business co-owner's is head of one of the largest hospitals in Stockholm. I've spoken with all of them and they all agree, yes, masks are useful. None of them agree they should be mandatory for school children. I'm 100% for them and have worn them a lot. How hard is it for you to understand that? School kids don't add much value and at a high cost. You don't have children, do you?
March 11, 20224 yr 17 minutes ago, Toastrel said: You don't have children, do you? Yes, in fact I do. Do you? edit: So do all of those medical people I referenced except my colleague who is pretty young still. American lady from NY whose Swedish husband is on a COVID ward. Various ages of children among the others. Some older with grand kids as well and some others with kids in day care and up thru to college.
March 11, 20224 yr 34 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: How many times do we have to go over this? Masks have varying effects in varying situations and across varying types of individuals and at varying stages of the pandemic. Good ole Dr Facci and the CDC agree to this. Why can't you? My best friend in the US is an MD, my best friend's wife in Sweden is an RN, my closest colleague's husband is a nurse on the COVID ward, my best American friend's wife in Sweden is also a nurse on a COVID ward, my wife's business co-owner's is head of one of the largest hospitals in Stockholm. I've spoken with all of them and they all agree, yes, masks are useful. None of them agree they should be mandatory for school children. I'm 100% for them and have worn them a lot. How hard is it for you to understand that? School kids don't add much value and at a high cost. High cost? What kind of masks do you get for your kids? Personally I'm on the fence about effectiveness of masks for kids, but I side with it's very little harm. Better safe than sorry.
March 11, 20224 yr 4 minutes ago, toolg said: High cost? What kind of masks do you get for your kids? Personally I'm on the fence about effectiveness of masks for kids, but I side with it's very little harm. Better safe than sorry. For the little ones there is a cognitive cost. So much non-verbal communication is lost. I think they are overstated by a lot of the anti maskers, but it's there and tangible.
March 11, 20224 yr Just now, JohnSnowsHair said: For the little ones there is a cognitive cost. So much non-verbal communication is lost. I think they are overstated by a lot of the anti maskers, but it's there and tangible. To be clear I'm talking about kids under 12 and absolutely under 6.
March 11, 20224 yr Just now, JohnSnowsHair said: For the little ones there is a cognitive cost. So much non-verbal communication is lost. I think they are overstated by a lot of the anti maskers, but it's there and tangible. Really little kids, under 5 years old, yes. School-age kids? I don't think so. I wouldn't bother to mask a pre-schooler, but kids in communal settings inside a school building with high-risk of transmission? Yes.
March 11, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: To be clear I'm talking about kids under 12 and absolutely under 6. IMO, Under 5 years old I agree. Don't bother to mask them. Kids 6-12, inside a high-risk setting, then yes. I feel they can wear a mask and should learn how to do it properly.
March 11, 20224 yr Just now, toolg said: IMO, Under 5 years old I agree. Don't bother to mask them. Kids 6-12, inside a high-risk setting, then yes. I feel they can wear a mask and should learn how to do it properly. Fair enough. Others share a different opinion and I'm not talking about US based Trumpbots but rather highly respected groups such as the Nordic countries' health and education ministries. Naturally, it is a situation of many parameters and isn't super easy to cut along any really specific lines. Anyway, we've had enough of this debate but of course when new information arises we will need to discuss it. This particular study may end up getting debunked just like so many others both in the "masks are effective" and "masks are not effective" camps.
March 11, 20224 yr 24 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: This particular study may end up getting debunked just like so many others both in the "masks are effective" and "masks are not effective" camps. Most kids that I’ve seen are wearing cloth masks which CDC now says are ineffective. Of course there is a whole class of cloth masks. Material, number of layers, etc. New guidelines suggest N95 masks, so it’s going to be a cluster F to figure this out.
March 11, 20224 yr Masks are gone in my area with the exception of Dr's offices and hospitals and I'm glad they are. Having said that, if a mandate popped back up tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me much either. I may put one on later and drive my car around by myself for a bit.
March 12, 20224 yr 4 hours ago, DrPhilly said: Understood. Not an exact copy. We need to see what people make of the data and how they interpret various parameters against each other. This type of thing is the issue with all of these studies. There really isn't any good way to really separate out the exact "mask" component from everything else. Sure but maybe we can at least try to avoid known confounding factors. We know that COVID spread increases as you increase density of people and age. Trying to compare 2 populations separated markedly by both age and classroom density and draw any conclusions based on the very predictable result just seems asinine. I guess we can see if anything comes of the study but I doubt it, and coming out with "trigger warning" like this is some kinda dunk is a bit silly.
Create an account or sign in to comment