1 minute ago, Toty said:

37 is just fine. I have nieces over 20 now and it's getting in that creepy range. Not that I'd turn it down (the 20 year olds, not the nieces). Man I need to learn how to edit.

37 is more than fine 😁

You can still casually read the menu though. No need to try to place an order. 

2 hours ago, DBW said:

I read an article today that was one LinkedIn - I forget the source now....but  basically said the spikes have spikes now.  There was a patient that that was carrying 17 mutations of the virus.  They called the latest one B.1.1.7 for the 17th mutation.  I think it’m might be the guy in Colorado? The doctors were saying they have never seen anything like it and it wasn’t what they would expect to see.  It did not paint an optimistic picture of the vaccine efficacy.   They’re saying that the newest mutation is 70% more contagious and the patients are sicker and its hitting younger people harder as well.  I’m getting very worried that this vaccine will be an epic fail! 

You're like the joe shades of covid vaccines. The only way the vaccine will fail is if there's a string of adverse reactions to it and too many people freak out and stop getting vaccinated. 

4 hours ago, Kz! said:

Doesn't matter exactly what the data shows, it will be used by democrats to impose more strict measures. You heard it here first!

I mean the data suggests the new virus could be more virulent (spike protein is "open" more than "closed" compared to baseline) so it is kind of a big deal. I was only talking about how it pertains to the vaccine. 

3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You're like the joe shades of covid vaccines. The only way the vaccine will fail is if there's a string of adverse reactions to it and too many people freak out and stop getting vaccinated. 

😂 thats harsh 

I mean, I’m not ignoring the science and I’m sure they are doing what they can and we should believe in it, but there’s an element of unknown that you can’t ignore.  You can’t say "ah they have this vaccine development stuff all figured out” because if that were the case we wouldn’t ever have a new virus to deal with, we’d just have superhuman immune systems and get our bulletproof shots at birth and never worry about our health again.  The virus is moving the goal posts and they (the docs and virologists and the cdc etc) admittedly did not expect to see the mutations they did. Now you want me to blindly believe that the magic potion they developed in record time is going to be the virus killer and stop it on its tracks?  If you wanna believe the science of medicine then you have to believe the science of virus mutations and the fact that the virus could be smarter than the "experts” in the medical community. 

2 hours ago, DBW said:

😂 thats harsh 

I mean, I’m not ignoring the science and I’m sure they are doing what they can and we should believe in it, but there’s an element of unknown that you can’t ignore.  You can’t say "ah they have this vaccine development stuff all figured out” because if that were the case we wouldn’t ever have a new virus to deal with, we’d just have superhuman immune systems and get our bulletproof shots at birth and never worry about our health again.  The virus is moving the goal posts and they (the docs and virologists and the cdc etc) admittedly did not expect to see the mutations they did. Now you want me to blindly believe that the magic potion they developed in record time is going to be the virus killer and stop it on its tracks?  If you wanna believe the science of medicine then you have to believe the science of virus mutations and the fact that the virus could be smarter than the "experts” in the medical community. 

You don't have to believe it, and it's not magic, but that's almost certainly what will happen. It wasn't magic with smallpox, or polio, or measles, etc. And the reason for my confidence is because I believe in (i.e. understand) both the science of medicine as well as the science of how a virus mutates. We've gone over the topic of mutations before and there's plenty of material to read up on it if you don't want to take my word for it (which you shouldn't, I'm just some guy on a message board without a background in any of the medical or biological sciences.)

But bet money, we already have the answer to this riddle. Thanks in part to a lot of the ground work that was laid out following SARS 1 and MERS. No need to put "experts" in quotes there. We all have them to thank for getting us out of this mess, one way or another.

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You don't have to believe it, and it's not magic, but that's almost certainly what will happen. It wasn't magic with smallpox, or polio, or measles, etc. And the reason for my confidence is because I believe in (i.e. understand) both the science of medicine as well as the science of how a virus mutates. We've gone over the topic of mutations before and there's plenty of material to read up on it if you don't want to take my word for it (which you shouldn't, I'm just some guy on a message board without a background in any of the medical or biological sciences.)

But bet money, we already have the answer to this riddle. Thanks in part to a lot of the ground work that was laid out following SARS 1 and MERS. No need to put "experts" in quotes there. We all have them to thank for getting us out of this mess, one way or another.

I get all that and I know a lot of the discover work was done, hell I’m on record here citing that info.  Information changes daily with this virus so it’s possible that what the experts (not in quotes) think they know about it today could be off the mark tomorrow.  I’m pretty sure all the viruses you mentioned had mutated as well during that process of creating the vaccines but none of them have mutate at the rate of covid-19. This is why it’s surprising and very alarming to the doctors.  There’s nobody at the front of this taking a casual approach and when they say they’re concerned then yeah it’s quite concerning.  It’ll not saying we shouldn’t get the vaccine or it won’t work, but we are 18 million doses shy of where they wanted to be at this point and at the rate of mutation it becomes a race to keep up.  I’ve also read stories of people that have gotten the vaccine and then tested positive for the virus, which I know is possible as it’s 90-95% effective so there’s a small chance it doesn’t work in some cases.  I hope for all of our sakes that we get more doses out soon and that it makes a huge dent in the spread but I have my concerns about keeping up with virus after the news about the advanced spread with the new mutations.  

 

6 hours ago, DBW said:

I get all that and I know a lot of the discover work was done, hell I’m on record here citing that info.  Information changes daily with this virus so it’s possible that what the experts (not in quotes) think they know about it today could be off the mark tomorrow.  I’m pretty sure all the viruses you mentioned had mutated as well during that process of creating the vaccines but none of them have mutate at the rate of covid-19. This is why it’s surprising and very alarming to the doctors.  There’s nobody at the front of this taking a casual approach and when they say they’re concerned then yeah it’s quite concerning.  It’ll not saying we shouldn’t get the vaccine or it won’t work, but we are 18 million doses shy of where they wanted to be at this point and at the rate of mutation it becomes a race to keep up.  I’ve also read stories of people that have gotten the vaccine and then tested positive for the virus, which I know is possible as it’s 90-95% effective so there’s a small chance it doesn’t work in some cases.  I hope for all of our sakes that we get more doses out soon and that it makes a huge dent in the spread but I have my concerns about keeping up with virus after the news about the advanced spread with the new mutations.  

COVID-19 is actually mutating relatively slowly, not quickly.

Are you referring to the nurse who got COVID a week after getting her first dose of vaccine?  That’s not really a "story”.  It takes about 2 weeks after the vaccine dose for it to start to be effective, and it’s not 95% effective until 2 weeks after your second dose.

It takes 5-6 days after inoculation of COVID-19 for symptoms to show up.  So basically, she likely contracted the virus 1-2 days after her vaccine dose, at which point there’d be little to no positive effect from the vaccine because it was too soon.

8 hours ago, L.E said:

 

What the flippety F?

More of this:

 

Update...still feeling more flu'ish......but nights are the worst.  Can't sleep because of aches and skin feeling like broken glass is being dragged across it.  I was up like every hour and that was with a healthy serving of NyQuil lol.  I'm probably like day 3 into symptoms.  Doesn't seem to be getting worse and there are times where I feel basically fine.  I'm hoping that this is what it is and doesn't get worse.

12 minutes ago, Kz! said:

More of this:

 

I always laugh at the hypocrisy of this situation.

Republican governors: The federal government shouldn’t be able to tell us what to do. The federal government doesn’t know what’s best for my state. States should be allowed to decide for themselves how to run things.

also Republican governors: Municipalities shouldn’t be allowed to decide for themselves how to run things. I know what’s best for them. 

PS....I can only think of a couple things....thank god I am in pretty good shape for 52.....I work out almost every day.  I am hopeful and thankful if so that I have no underlying physical issues.  Thank god for Gatoraid because I am pounding that crap like it's air.  Water just doesn't seem to do anything and I know how important it is to stay hydrated.

2 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

I always laugh at the hypocrisy of this situation.

Republican governors: The federal government shouldn’t be able to tell us what to do. The federal government doesn’t know what’s best for my state. States should be allowed to decide for themselves how to run things.

also Republican governors: Municipalities shouldn’t be allowed to decide for themselves how to run things. I know what’s best for them. 

Yeah, local government should be able to run roughshod over their citizens if they feel like it and no one should step in, otherwise they're hypocrites. 

19 minutes ago, NYEagle said:

Update...still feeling more flu'ish......but nights are the worst.  Can't sleep because of aches and skin feeling like broken glass is being dragged across it.  I was up like every hour and that was with a healthy serving of NyQuil lol.  I'm probably like day 3 into symptoms.  Doesn't seem to be getting worse and there are times where I feel basically fine.  I'm hoping that this is what it is and doesn't get worse.

Hang in there man. 

35 minutes ago, NYEagle said:

PS....I can only think of a couple things....thank god I am in pretty good shape for 52.....I work out almost every day.  I am hopeful and thankful if so that I have no underlying physical issues.  Thank god for Gatoraid because I am pounding that crap like it's air.  Water just doesn't seem to do anything and I know how important it is to stay hydrated.

Kick its ass

10 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Yeah, local government should be able to run roughshod over their citizens if they feel like it and no one should step in, otherwise they're hypocrites. 

Once again, you’ve already made it clear you are ok with government regulating businesses when it comes to safety.  So the "running roughshod” comment is pure hyperbole. 
Yes, it is clearly hypocritical.  When it comes to them and how they want to run their state, they don’t want the government that’s higher up on the pecking order to be able to tell them what to do.

But when it comes to the governments lower than them on the pecking order, they want control and to be able to control what they do.

Its like a kid telling their parents "you can’t tell me what to do!” And then turning around and giving their little brother orders to follow.

42 minutes ago, NYEagle said:

Update...still feeling more flu'ish......but nights are the worst.  Can't sleep because of aches and skin feeling like broken glass is being dragged across it.  I was up like every hour and that was with a healthy serving of NyQuil lol.  I'm probably like day 3 into symptoms.  Doesn't seem to be getting worse and there are times where I feel basically fine.  I'm hoping that this is what it is and doesn't get worse.

Keep it up man!  Stay hydrated and rested!  Hopefully you only feel better from here on out.

42 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

I always laugh at the hypocrisy of this situation.

Republican governors: The federal government shouldn’t be able to tell us what to do. The federal government doesn’t know what’s best for my state. States should be allowed to decide for themselves how to run things.

also Republican governors: Municipalities shouldn’t be allowed to decide for themselves how to run things. I know what’s best for them. 

spot on post. 

https://explaincovid.org/

A good simple resource for information if anyone is interested. Emily Oster is a really good author out of Brown who is great at synthesizing and presenting evidence on a topic. I send patients here a lot. 

48 minutes ago, NYEagle said:

Update...still feeling more flu'ish......but nights are the worst.  Can't sleep because of aches and skin feeling like broken glass is being dragged across it.  I was up like every hour and that was with a healthy serving of NyQuil lol.  I'm probably like day 3 into symptoms.  Doesn't seem to be getting worse and there are times where I feel basically fine.  I'm hoping that this is what it is and doesn't get worse.

I hope so as well - stay strong Brother!

15 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Once again, you’ve already made it clear you are ok with government regulating businesses when it comes to safety.  So the "running roughshod” comment is pure hyperbole. 
Yes, it is clearly hypocritical.  When it comes to them and how they want to run their state, they don’t want the government that’s higher up on the pecking order to be able to tell them what to do.

But when it comes to the governments lower than them on the pecking order, they want control and to be able to control what they do.

Its like a kid telling their parents "you can’t tell me what to do!” And then turning around and giving their little brother orders to follow.

Haha, still enamored with the idea that I can't be pro basic sanitation requirements for restaurants and also against government shuttering businesses entirely for any reason they see fit. That's just an incredibly leap of logic.  

25 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Haha, still enamored with the idea that I can't be pro basic sanitation requirements for restaurants and also against government shuttering businesses entirely for any reason they see fit. That's just an incredibly leap of logic.  

Except once again, they aren’t shuttering businesses for any reason they see fit.  In case you’ve been sleeping under a rock, there’s currently a global pandemic happening the likes we haven’t seen in over a century.  In case you’ve been sleeping under a rock, hospital systems are now strained to the max due to COVID patients taking up ICU beds. 
Guess what, a basic safety requirement during this pandemic is if the activity can’t be done while wearing a mask and distancing, then it shouldn’t be done.  So how is that any different than basic sanitation requirements?  

Now, you may disagree with the regulations put on businesses during the pandemic and have better options, but stop with the hyperbolic BS. 
 

4 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Except once again, they aren’t shuttering businesses for any reason they see fit.  In case you’ve been sleeping under a rock, there’s currently a global pandemic happening the likes we haven’t seen in over a century.  In case you’ve been sleeping under a rock, hospital systems are now strained to the max due to COVID patients taking up ICU beds. 
Guess what, a basic safety requirement during this pandemic is if the activity can’t be done while wearing a mask and distancing, then it shouldn’t be done.   

Now, you may disagree with the regulations put on businesses during the pandemic and have better options, but stop with the hyperbolic BS. 
 

I'm just going by your twisted logic that says because I believe in basic sanitation requirements for restaurants, I also have to agree with the government shutting them down because of a virus. 

10 hours ago, DBW said:

I get all that and I know a lot of the discover work was done, hell I’m on record here citing that info.  Information changes daily with this virus so it’s possible that what the experts (not in quotes) think they know about it today could be off the mark tomorrow.  I’m pretty sure all the viruses you mentioned had mutated as well during that process of creating the vaccines but none of them have mutate at the rate of covid-19. This is why it’s surprising and very alarming to the doctors.  There’s nobody at the front of this taking a casual approach and when they say they’re concerned then yeah it’s quite concerning.  It’ll not saying we shouldn’t get the vaccine or it won’t work, but we are 18 million doses shy of where they wanted to be at this point and at the rate of mutation it becomes a race to keep up.  I’ve also read stories of people that have gotten the vaccine and then tested positive for the virus, which I know is possible as it’s 90-95% effective so there’s a small chance it doesn’t work in some cases.  I hope for all of our sakes that we get more doses out soon and that it makes a huge dent in the spread but I have my concerns about keeping up with virus after the news about the advanced spread with the new mutations.  

Couple things on this, first, it's a two dose vaccine taken 3-4 weeks apart, so I'd bet a good portion of these cases you're referring to have only received their first dose. Second, even after the second dose, it takes an additional week or two before your body builds up antibodies to the needed levels to provide the expected level of protection. 

Now your concerns on manufacturing shortages, distribution challenges, and rollout mistakes are certainly not unfounded and I share them as well. Definitely could've done a better job there.