5 hours ago, Paul852 said:

I was reading the report on one of the AstraZeneca cases. The woman was 5'5" 250 pounds 

I guess we can rule out anorexia as a pre existing condition

49 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Wrong thread.

Well shoot, thats what I get for trying to get a quick post in before a meeting

1 hour ago, paco said:

nvmind

 

Keep arguing that it's because they can't, not because they won't.  That'll help reverse the underlying causes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/15/us/black-americans-and-vaccine-hesitancy/index.html

 

Quote

 

Nearly one third of Black Americans remain hesitant to get Covid-19 vaccine, study finds

By Nicquel Terry Ellis, CNN

 

Updated 8:06 AM ET, Fri December 18, 2020

Reasons for vaccine hesitancy

Among people who said they were not likely to get a vaccine, Black adults expressed greater concern about side effects than other groups of respondents.

Major reasons listed among respondents who said they definitely or probably would not get a Covid-19 vaccine:

 

 

7 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

Keep arguing that it's because they can't, not because they won't.  That'll help reverse the underlying causes.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/15/us/black-americans-and-vaccine-hesitancy/index.html

 

So, like I said, while racial disparities in hesitancy are significant, they are much smaller than the racial disparities in who has been vaccinated.

5 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

So, like I said, while racial disparities in hesitancy are significant, they are much smaller than the racial disparities in who has been vaccinated.

Which proves absolutely nothing. Newsflash, there are more old white people than old black and Latino people. So since we prioritized old people, then guess what the outcome is? Damn pesky facts. 

Not everything can be blamed on racism, and it cheapens actual racism when you try to make it the reason for every disparate outcome. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/most-common-age-among-us-racial-ethnic-groups/

 

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2018/acs/ACS-38.pdf

4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

So, like I said, while racial disparities in hesitancy are significant, they are much smaller than the racial disparities in who has been vaccinated.

Not really.  In fact, it pretty closely tracks with population percentages, but whatever you need to do to keep the narrative alive.  That's really more important than actually figuring out how to get hesitant people vaccinated.  I'm sure that the hesitancy has nothing to do with the politicians and leaders creating doubt when the old administration were the ones in charge.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Which proves absolutely nothing. Newsflash, there are more old white people than old black and Latino people. So since we prioritized old people, then guess what the outcome is?

Not everything can be blamed on racism, and it cheapens actual racism when you try to make it the reason for every disparate outcome. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/30/most-common-age-among-us-racial-ethnic-groups/

Sure, it would take a lot more to prove it, but it definitely shows that there is a significant gap to be accounted for.

You're twisting my words into absolutes. Not everything is the direct result of racism, but in some cases, it is a factor worthy of consideration, and it certainly is here. People need to understand the difference between structural/systemic racism and overt racism. They are very different the left generally does a terrible job of explaining it. Again, we are talking about how historical disparities in distribution and access affect certain races disproportionately, not that they are being intentionally targeted or singled out (which is the argument leftists make). It's much more nuanced than they want people to believe.

The graph makes a valid point. I did not realize that the avg. age differs that much between the races. Wow.

6 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

Not really.  In fact, it pretty closely tracks with population percentages, but whatever you need to do to keep the narrative alive.  That's really more important than actually figuring out how to get hesitant people vaccinated.  I'm sure that the hesitancy has nothing to do with the politicians and leaders creating doubt when the old administration were the ones in charge.

I recognize that what you say IS a problem. My only point is that you can't just act like "Well, only 5% of black people have been vaccinated because they're 13x more hesitant than white people are to get the vaccine." It's a misuse of statistics. What I was saying is that your initial post didn't quite paint the picture accurately. I think we all need to be willing to admit that there are multiple factors at play here. Hesitancy is important, but structural inequality is also important when we're looking at this. I don't know why it's so hard to give a little bit in the other direction. The world is not black and white (no pun intended, really.)

1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

I recognize that what you say IS a problem. My only point is that you can't just act like "Well, only 5% of black people have been vaccinated because they're 13x more hesitant than white people are to get the vaccine." It's a misuse of statistics. What I was saying is that your initial post didn't quite paint the picture accurately. I think we all need to be willing to admit that there are multiple factors at play here. Hesitancy is important, but structural inequality is also important when we're looking at this. I don't know why it's so hard to give a little bit in the other direction. The world is not black and white (no pun intended, really.)

The issue is once you normalize for both hesitancy and age differences, there really isn't much of a difference. It's the same as the mythical wage gap -- once you normalize the data to compare people in the same job and level, it virtually disappears. But that doesn't stop the left from perpetuating these myths in order to try and whip up anger and get votes with falsehoods. 

If we want to talk about structural racism, there are plenty of real examples -- mandatory minimums, funding schools with property taxes, etc. But when the left tries to loop EVERYTHING into racism or sexism without looking at the whole picture, it weakens the message and prevents progress on real issues because they lose all credibility. 

Good post, a few comments on the points you make.

  

27 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

The issue is once you normalize for both hesitancy and age differences, there really isn't much of a difference. It's the same as the mythical wage gap -- once you normalize the data to compare people in the same job and level, it virtually disappears. But that doesn't stop the left from perpetuating these myths in order to try and whip up anger and get votes with falsehoods.

I'd like to see a comprehensive piece that accounts for these factors and attempts to make an aggregate assessment of hesitancy. So far, all I've seen are separate studies and we're left to fill in the gaps. It seems, though, based on the articles, that the gap is somewhere between 15-20%, which is significant.

 

27 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

It's the same as the mythical wage gap -- once you normalize the data to compare people in the same job and level, it virtually disappears. But that doesn't stop the left from perpetuating these myths in order to try and whip up anger and get votes with falsehoods.

 

Agreed. I argue this one all the time: the wage gap, at least in the irresponsible way it is portrayed by the left, is a myth. It absolutely infuriates me that you hear this "for ever dollar a man makes, women make X percentage," over and over agin, and that it goes all the way to the top. Like, this is a misuse of statistics that you'd expect from someone like AOC, but even f***ing Obama loved to parrot this line, and he knows better.

 

27 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

If we want to talk about structural racism, there are plenty of real examples -- mandatory minimums, funding schools with property taxes, etc. But when the left tries to loop EVERYTHING into racism or sexism without looking at the whole picture, it weakens the message and prevents progress on real issues because they lose all credibility. 

 

This is big and it ties into this. Wouldn't a big reason for greater hesitancy among black Americans be heavily influenced by disparities in education? I mean, Christ, one of those graphs in the CNN article said that, of those hesitant to be vaccinated 50% of black respondents said they worried they'd get COVID from the vaccine, compared to only 21% of whites. I definitely think that lack of quality education plays a huge role in these attitudes, and there is certainly a racial component in lack of equal educational opportunity.

This country is full of stupid and ignorant and there is no vaccine for that

Kind of ridiculous that they even asked.

 

Quote

New York (CNN)Johnson & Johnson sought help from its three rival Covid-19 vaccine makers to look into reports of blood clots, but Pfizer and Moderna both declined, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday, citing people familiar with the situation. Only AstraZeneca agreed, according to the WSJ.

J&J also wanted to build an informal alliance with its competitors that it hoped would allow the industry to speak with one voice about the safety of the vaccines and address any public concerns about the blood-clot cases, the Journal reported.

In a statement to CNN on Friday, a Pfizer (PFE) spokesperson declined to comment on the specifics of the WSJ report. "Pfizer embraces opportunities for scientific exchange when we can make a meaningful contribution that is not being represented by other groups or regulators," the spokesperson said. "We have and will continue to collaborate with other vaccine makers as appropriate as we all fight against this deadly pandemic."

Moderna (MRNA) and AstraZeneca (AZN) declined to comment.

 

Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) told CNN in an email that "the safety of the patients who use our products is our top priority," and that the company is actively working the US and European authorities. The company also noted that the pandemic has resulted in "unprecedented collaboration and sharing of publicly available data and information," further adding "we believe collaborative scientific exchange can lead to more robust answers to questions."

 

The news comes just three days after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration recommended pausing the use of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, following six reported US cases of a rare and severe type of blood clot.

All six cases were among women between the ages of 18 and 48, the agencies said in a statement, and symptoms occurred six to 13 days after vaccination. The recommendation to pause comes out of "an abundance of caution," they added, and these cases "appear to be extremely rare."

 

3 hours ago, Boogyman said:

 

Eh, I’ve been up since 2:45 am.*  Cut me a little slack  
 

*I know, you got up early, no one cares

19 minutes ago, paco said:

Eh, I’ve been up since 2:45 am.*  Cut me a little slack  
 

*I know, you got up early, no one cares

I feel you. I wake at 4am every day. By Friday I'm toast. And since I get up so early every day, even on the weekend I cannot sleep in and am up my 6 at the latest.

So... this just happened here 😟

What in the actual Fing F??

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Kind of ridiculous that they even asked.

 

 

Yeah, seriously. If something comes out about the Moderna/Pfizer vaccines causing some type of rare response I'm sure J&J would jump right in to help.

27 minutes ago, Dawkins 20 said:

So... this just happened here 😟

What in the actual Fing F??

'Where are you going?' 

'To buy weed.'

'Have a good day, eh.'

On 4/15/2021 at 12:52 PM, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I know they said the numbers will lag, but just for a quick estimate, 5,800/77,000,000=an incidence of  roughly .008%, and that's assuming all of them were fully vaccinated and adhering to mitigation. So, this is encouraging news.

So I can't believe I didn't think of this yesterday or no one else did, that is a misleading figure because of course not all of those 77,000,000 people were exposed to the virus. The number would be 5,800/ people vaccinated and exposed to the virus. But that is an unknown number. The people vaccinated but not exposed to the virus can't be included because we don't know if the vaccine would have worked on them or not so we don't know how encouraging this is because of a big unknown. Also that 5,800 is probably much larger because most people do not get tested

11 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

So I can't believe I didn't think of this yesterday or no one else did, that is a misleading figure because of course not all of those 77,000,000 people were exposed to the virus. The number would be 5,800/ people vaccinated and exposed to the virus. But that is an unknown number. The people vaccinated but not exposed to the virus can't be included because we don't know if the vaccine would have worked on them or not so we don't know how encouraging this is because of a big unknown. Also that 5,800 is probably much larger because most people do not get tested

Or the people who already had it and didn't know and then got vaccinated.

20 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Or the people who already had it and didn't know and then got vaccinated.

Yes that too. The vaccine has been around a few months and for many of those 66 million they have had it for weeks. Saying 5800 out of 66 million is completely misleading. To say otherwise is twisting numbers to fit a conclusion that people want. 

On 4/16/2021 at 5:11 PM, Boogyman said:

I feel you. I wake at 4am every day. By Friday I'm toast. And since I get up so early every day, even on the weekend I cannot sleep in and am up my 6 at the latest.

Schmoopie and I did a Florida trip for our 5th.  Orlando to stay with her brother, 2 nights in Key west, 5 in Key largo, 3 in Miami Beach (dolphins game) and one night in Savannah.

 

Anyway, to get to Orlando at a decent time I got up a 2, drug Schmoopie and the dogs into the car and hit the road. The rest of the trip I was getting up at 5:30-6 because my clock was so off. Couldnt sleep in if I tried.

On 4/16/2021 at 5:45 PM, Dawkins 20 said:

So... this just happened here 😟

What in the actual Fing F??

Dont sweat it. Your car can outrun a horse.

35 minutes ago, paco said:

Dont sweat it. Your car can outrun a horse.

I don't think I've ever actually seen an RCMP officer in my life. They don't have any jurisdiction in Ontario and Quebec unless it involves a federal crime... and those are the only two provinces I've been to. 

So it looks like damn near every municipal/regional police force in Ontario is telling the government to go pound sand regarding their new measures I posted about. There's some hope yet.

1 minute ago, Dawkins 20 said:

I don't think I've ever actually seen an RCMP officer in my life. They don't have any jurisdiction in Ontario and Quebec unless it involves a federal crime... and those are the only two provinces I've been to. 

So it looks like damn near every municipal/regional police force in Ontario is telling the government to go pound sand regarding their new measures I posted about. There's some hope yet.

I have.  Saw this dude when I was 13