26 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Dolphins just got hit hard for tampering lost a 1st in 2023 and a 3rd in 2024.

Owner suspended and fined 1.5m 

What was the tampering?  Was it the accusations of tanking?

20 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is all the actual dead money projected for next year, and the following.  For this calculation, I added back in the current dead money to the current cap space so you can see it from start to finish, and figured the likely retirement of Kelce and the release of Cox, which both contract were set up for exactly that.  Once all the current dummy years accelerate into 2023, the Eagles are projected to be 31.9 million over the cap.  

 

@paco did I miss anything ??

 

 

 

Look it again.  You think that is realistic? So in your mind you seriously think the Eagles are going to have to shed $31 mil of cap space IN ADDITION to those guys on your list? 

34 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Dolphins just got hit hard for tampering lost a 1st in 2023 and a 3rd in 2024.

Owner suspended and fined 1.5m 

They also found that Flores wasn't instructed to lose a game.

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Look it again.  You think that is realistic? So in your mind you seriously think the Eagles are going to have to shed $31 mil of cap space IN ADDITION to those guys on your list? 

It is a fact they will be that far over the cap.  There is ways to solve that, Hargrave extension, resigning White, Bradberry and Seumalo and lowering their cap numbers.  Then there will be more Howie restructuring to kick the can down the road.  This has happened the last two off seasons, that is why the Eagles are currently in this situation.

Instead of just cutting bait and resetting after the Wentz disaster, Howie kept can kicking, and will now be forced to do it again in 2023, and possibly 2024.

30 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here is all the actual dead money projected for next year, and the following.  For this calculation, I added back in the current dead money to the current cap space so you can see it from start to finish, and figured the likely retirement of Kelce and the release of Cox, which both contract were set up for exactly that.  Once all the current dummy years accelerate into 2023, the Eagles are projected to be 31.9 million over the cap.  

 

@paco did I miss anything ??

 

 

 

I can see why some of you have difficulty understanding the cap.

In this example you double dipped Hargrave.  He counts just under $12 mil on the 2023 cap. If we cut him ( pre June) he has the same dead money,  no cap savings.   He doesn't count twice.  Kelce retires, they take him off the books after June, they save money on him, you have it costing more.  Cox they can designate post June and save $$.  You double dip the players... but again, it's simple, do u really think they need to shed an additional $31 mil to get below the cap?

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

It is a fact they will be that far over the cap.  There is ways to solve that, Hargrave extension, resigning White, Bradberry and Seumalo and lowering their cap numbers.  Then there will be more Howie restructuring to kick the can down the road.  This has happened the last two off seasons, that is why the Eagles are currently in this situation.

Instead of just cutting bait and resetting after the Wentz disaster, Howie kept can kicking, and will now be forced to do it again in 2023, and possibly 2024.

You are double dipping your numbers.  All you need to do is go to 2023 page a and look at the last column.  You see the effect of each move both prior and post June 1.  

The white column with the actual 2023 cap hit would get replaced with the number on the next column. Not both.

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

It is a fact they will be that far over the cap.  There is ways to solve that, Hargrave extension, resigning White, Bradberry and Seumalo and lowering their cap numbers.  Then there will be more Howie restructuring to kick the can down the road.  This has happened the last two off seasons, that is why the Eagles are currently in this situation.

Instead of just cutting bait and resetting after the Wentz disaster, Howie kept can kicking, and will now be forced to do it again in 2023, and possibly 2024.

You cut or trade Cox and Hargrave and Kelce retires .... all with post June.  That creates $10 mil MORE cap space.   You have those 3 costing us cap space???   That's not how it works. 

48 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

What was the tampering?  Was it the accusations of tanking?

Talking with  Brady twice actually 2019 when he was still with NE and 21 and Sean Payton was part of it while they were both under contract 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

You cut or trade Cox and Hargrave and Kelce retires .... all with post June.  That creates $10 mil MORE cap space.   You have those 3 costing us cap space???   That's not how it works. 

My apologies, I jumped the gun a little and did not calculate everything correctly.  But I am glad you made me slow down and think about it.  Once those players become dead money, then someone else moves into that spot in the top 51 and then also counts against the cap ( bolded in green, 8 players replacing 8 dead money ).  I have added the 8 highest projected cap hits next year, and the 2023 draft pick projected salaries are using the 2022 numbers, which will obviously be higher for those draft slots next year.

So once you do all of this, the Eagles will have less than 2 million in 2023 cap space to start the league year.  

I think I got it right this time @paco

 

 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

You cut or trade Cox and Hargrave and Kelce retires .... all with post June.  That creates $10 mil MORE cap space.   You have those 3 costing us cap space???   That's not how it works. 

You are only allowed two post June cuts

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

My apologies, I jumped the gun a little and did not calculate everything correctly.  But I am glad you made me slow down and think about it.  Once those players become dead money, then someone else moves into that spot in the top 51 and then also counts against the cap ( bolded in green, 8 players replacing 8 dead money ).  I have added the 8 highest projected cap hits next year, and the 2023 draft pick projected salaries are using the 2022 numbers, which will obviously be higher for those draft slots next year.

So once you do all of this, the Eagles will have less than 2 million in 2023 cap space to start the league year.  

I think I got it right this time @paco

 

 

Mike.  You are making it way too complicated.   Just let overthecap do all the calculations for you.  And then see what happens as each move is made.   Forget dead money or top 51. 

 

Just now, paco said:

You are only allowed two post June cuts

What happens when Kelce retires?   Or any move made after June 1st?   

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Mike.  You are making it way too complicated.   Just let overthecap do all the calculations for you.  And then see what happens as each move is made.   Forget dead money or top 51. 

 

My numbers are now accurate.  If not, give me something specific and I will address it.

Regardless.  100+ million in dead cap over 2022 and 2023 is gross mismanagement.

4 minutes ago, paco said:

You are only allowed two post June cuts

2 " designated" post June cuts.   You can cut anyone after June 1 and it counts as post June.  Kelce will retire and get off the books after June 1.  No need to take him off prior.  

Cox will most likely be the post June trade designation.   Hargrave will most likely finish the contract or restructure/ extend.  

The issue where Mike keeps missing... he counts everyone twice.

Right now,the dead money for 2023 is just 2 players

Cox $15,359,292.  And Brooks $9,797,237.

The rest are showing on the books as active players.   If they move to dead money,they come off as active players.   The example is Hargrave, he is on the books for that number as active, Mike is adding him to dead money without taking him off as active.

Kelce is another example... he on the 2023 and 2024 books as an active player for $11 mil each... he retires it lowers 2023 to $9.675 mil and 2024 to $5.4 mil.  Mike is adding it on, that's not how it works.

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

My numbers are now accurate.  If not, give me something specific and I will address it.

Regardless.  100+ million in dead cap over 2022 and 2023 is gross mismanagement.

 Cap space Mike... that is all that matters.   Hopefully the examples I gave you help.  Don't make it too complicated, it really isn't. 

The Eagles were strapped LAST YEAR... because the Wentz deal was going to be restructured.  When he wanted out, that didn't allow them to do it.   That was the issue.  That's why they had to make all those other moves to make up for the $20-25 mil they were going to save by redoing just Wentz.

They are in good shape going forward and really this past year they were not hindered at all and made moves.   

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

 Cap space Mike... that is all that matters.   Hopefully the examples I gave you help.  Don't make it too complicated, it really isn't. 

The Eagles were strapped LAST YEAR... because the Wentz deal was going to be restructured.  When he wanted out, that didn't allow them to do it.   That was the issue.  That's why they had to make all those other moves to make up for the $20-25 mil they were going to save by redoing just Wentz.

They are in good shape going forward and really this past year they were not hindered at all and made moves.   

They are not in good shape going forward.  1/4 of the 2023 cap is dead.  They have to replace Cox, Kelce, Hargrave, ( Bradberry, Harris, Epps ( that is 3/4 of the starting secondary ))

They will have less than 2 million in cap space to do that, and players are due for extensions.

This is Kelce.  You see he is on the books with the big cap numbers in the middle...that add up to $30,668,000.   The column to the right in pink is the replacement number after he comes off the books.  The number to the far right is the cap savings.    

If the Eagles finish the year out as is... they will have about $15.6 mil under the cap to start.  Without any moves.  

Just now, downundermike said:

They are not in good shape going forward.  1/4 of the 2023 cap is dead.  They have to replace Cox, Kelce, Hargrave, ( Bradberry, Harris, Epps ( that is 3/4 of the starting secondary ))

They will have less than 2 million in cap space to do that, and players are due for extensions.

How do you get $2 million?   The site says it right there.  Current 2022 cap space $8,912,390.... next year $6,793,385....  you are adding numbers to the mix that aren't there.  

I agree the roster after this year isn't in good shape, I've been saying that for 2 years now.  They need to draft well and that's why you see the upcoming holes from not drafting well...it's not managing their cap?   

2019 and 2020 draft picks... i don't see any of them getting extended. And that's the problem.  It's not money, it's their play! 

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

This is Kelce.  You see he is on the books with the big cap numbers in the middle...that add up to $30,668,000.   The column to the right in pink is the replacement number after he comes off the books.  The number to the far right is the cap savings.    

If the Eagles finish the year out as is... they will have about $15.6 mil under the cap to start.  Without any moves.  

Incorrect  

If Kelce retires and is a post June 1 designation, his base and roster go away, but all future roster bonuses immediately accelerate to the current year.

That is 6.925,000 plus 5,411,000 plus 4,011,000 plus 2,026,000.  That totals 18.373 million.  With a post June 1 designation, that is split over two years at 9.186 million per year, as I had already calculated.

 

Btw...  " Big play Slay"   post June trade would save $17.5 mil of cap space.   That is the probably the move that happens.

8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

How do you get $2 million?   The site says it right there.  Current 2022 cap space $8,912,390.... next year $6,793,385....  you are adding numbers to the mix that aren't there.  

I agree the roster after this year isn't in good shape, I've been saying that for 2 years now.  They need to draft well and that's why you see the upcoming holes from not drafting well...it's not managing their cap?   

Next year shows 6.7 million with the players who will not on the roster dead cap hits counting against the top 51.  Those players will be dead hits, will not be on the roster, so 8 players who are actually on the roster will then be calculated into the top 51.  Those are bolded in green.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Incorrect  

If Kelce retires and is a post June 1 designation, his base and roster go away, but all future roster bonuses immediately accelerate to the current year.

That is 6.925,000 plus 5,411,000 plus 4,011,000 plus 2,026,000.  That totals 18.373 million.  With a post June 1 designation, that is split over two years at 9.186 million per year, as I had already calculated.

 

Incorrect.... he has a guaranteed $2.75 mil that would hit.   He gets that either way for 2023.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Next year shows 6.7 million with the players who will not on the roster dead cap hits counting against the top 51.  Those players will be dead hits, will not be on the roster, so 8 players who are actually on the roster will then be calculated into the top 51.  Those are bolded in green.

But they are already calculated in the cap space.   You are double dipping by trying to add them to the dead space and not taking them off the active books. That's not how it works.

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Incorrect.... he has a guaranteed $2.75 mil that would hit.   He gets that either way for 2023.

So that adds to my number, increasing his 9.186 million cap hits in 2022 and 2023 to 10,561,500 for each year, lowering the cap space to 834K