The one thing I will say about the play calling the last two years is that it hasn't done the receivers or the qb any favors.

For example, last year in the preseason JJAW was really effective on dig routes with McCown. And then the regular season starts and I rarely saw him run those routes.

This year, Reagor was killing it in practice on crossing routes. How many crossing routes do you see him run? I haven't seen very many at all. There have also been very few plays designed to get the ball in his hands in space and let him make plays. And the ones we do run are telegraphed by putting him in orbit motion, which is like waving a red flag that he's going to get a swing pass.

So while Carson has been bad, he's not getting helped by the play calling. And neither are the receivers.

 

Also, this is just mind boggling.

Thomas R. Petersen 🦅 on Twitter: "Nate Herbig has the 3rd best pass block efficiency on the team behind Kelce and Lane. Benching him, like so much else right now, makes little sense. #Eagles" / Twitter

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Duce is Assistant Head Coach already

He is the RB coach. I'm sure we have multiple "assistants"  in name only. In other words, I see ZERO influence he has. I see no experience with much else besides the RB's. Moving him to OC would give him that extra experience

22 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

He is the RB coach. I'm sure we have multiple "assistants"  in name only. In other words, I see ZERO influence he has. I see no experience with much else besides the RB's. Moving him to OC would give him that extra experience

Agreed.  I think giving Duce "Assistant HC” title was nothing more than to appease him when we passed on promoting him to OC in favor of bumping up Groh.  

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

Agreed.  I think giving Duce "Assistant HC” title was nothing more than to appease him when we passed on promoting him to OC in favor of bumping up Groh.  

Not privvy to insider info. For some reason others think he could be poached for a HC job elsewhere. IDK, does he have that experience????. Maybe if he was OUR HC, we would see a bit more running plays,since that's what' he knows. IDK, all I know is this really CANT get any worse than it is right now. Usually an OC is one that is poached and I can't say Duce has that overall experience. I would do whatever I had to do if I was Lurie. We were used to being a .500 club at WORST, and we were many years, but we were always around. Even accounting for injuries,I think this is the worst team I can remember in 25 years. If someone wants Groh, let them take him lol

Was watching Hurts vids. He's OK. He's nowhere near the caliber of Mahomes  ,Murray, Jackson and upcoming Trevor Lawrence or Fields. IDK why we drafted him. If I take a round 2, you can bet he's gonna play some. Such a waste, and frankly even if we wanted to trade him, he isn't seen enough to entice any other teams into wanting him. IDK, I am frustrated and fed up with this team. Ped started well, maybe because he had players others drafted and they slowly went elsewhere/retired or hit the mash tent. As his tenure continues, this team keeps getting worse by the week. At this point, no better than Chip was. I bet season tickets next year are cheap (OK pay me 500 to take them lol)

21 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Not privvy to insider info. For some reason others think he could be poached for a HC job elsewhere. IDK, does he have that experience????. Maybe if he was OUR HC, we would see a bit more running plays,since that's what' he knows. IDK, all I know is this really CANT get any worse than it is right now. Usually an OC is one that is poached and I can't say Duce has that overall experience. I would do whatever I had to do if I was Lurie. We were used to being a .500 club at WORST, and we were many years, but we were always around. Even accounting for injuries,I think this is the worst team I can remember in 25 years. If someone wants Groh, let them take him lol

Groh was fired at the end of last season (along with Walch).  But agree with everything else you posted.  

Baffling issue, Wentz didn’t just all of the sudden "forget” how to play QB in the NFL. So what’s the deal, REALLY? He has played poorly all season, made stupid decisions, missed reads like crazy. So how does that happen seemingly over a summer?

3 hours ago, time2rock said:

Groh was fired at the end of last season (along with Walch).  But agree with everything else you posted.  

I forgot, my bad

1 hour ago, Senhorcook said:

Baffling issue, Wentz didn’t just all of the sudden "forget” how to play QB in the NFL. So what’s the deal, REALLY? He has played poorly all season, made stupid decisions, missed reads like crazy. So how does that happen seemingly over a summer?

IDK, I'm starting to believe Ham's theory, that he had a kid lol

I'd like to shift the conversation a little. 

Can someone please explain what this team sees in Avonte Maddox at outside corner?

That one blows my mind and really makes me angry. 

Some fans say that we don't know what we are talking about. That the GM and the coaches know football better than us. And yes in many cases that's absolutely true. But there are times where we as fans can see an issue before it even comes to fruition.

This is one of those times. Most of us knew that Maddox was going to be bad at outside corner. He's small with not a huge reach and he's actually not the quickest of guys. 

In his rookie season he was good, really good, at safety and at times in the slot. Then they needed him at outside corner in a play off game and he was bad. And yet this team convinced themselves he should be the guy to start opposite Slay? What the hell is that all about?

The way this CB group has been constructed is disgraceful. We have essentially 3 slot CBs and 1 actual outside CB. We addressed a real issue by trading for Slay but then overlooked that you need 2 competent to good outside CBs. It's ridiculous. It's negligence. Who the hell is responsible for this? Howie or Schwartz?

7 hours ago, Senhorcook said:

Baffling issue, Wentz didn’t just all of the sudden "forget” how to play QB in the NFL. So what’s the deal, REALLY? He has played poorly all season, made stupid decisions, missed reads like crazy. So how does that happen seemingly over a summer?

I'm still going with concussion until i'm proven wrong,

9 hours ago, Senhorcook said:

Baffling issue, Wentz didn’t just all of the sudden "forget” how to play QB in the NFL. So what’s the deal, REALLY? He has played poorly all season, made stupid decisions, missed reads like crazy. So how does that happen seemingly over a summer?

I think its a combo of a few things

1- With all the oline issues Wentz is getting pressure instantly. As a QB you get a clock in your head that your use to. His clock in his head knows as soon as he gets the ball he has defenders in his face. This causes bad throws, bad decisions.

2- His recs cant get open. Doug feels our WRs can get open on their own. They can't. Doug refuses to design or call plays that will create separation for his recs. I think Carson is getting frustrated with this and is trying to force throws. 

3- The one I hate the most is Dougs practices. No contact, only give 50% like a walk through so you dont risk an injury and wear down the players. Prob is if you practice soft and dont prepare yourself, your going to play soft and play like crap when the gave is for real and defenders are flying around the ball. I think this is also our injury problem. Anyone who plays football know you prepare your body by taking hits. If you practice soft and start taking hits at full speed your going to get hurt.

What is even funnier was Dougs suggestion that they should maybe tone practices down more to give players more rest this week. Really? 

17 hours ago, time2rock said:

Doug even getting outcoached by noobs like Stefanski.  

It won't be long before he loses the ONLY strength he has as a HC (getting his players to keep buying in).  Soon they'll stop hearing him and he'll lose the locker room and then it is time to go.  

 

DUDE, that boat has sailed also. Defense has no faith in Doug or Wentz.

I watched the all 22, and, surprisingly, it didn't look any better than the actual game.

At the beginning of the game, Wentz was really good. He was decisive and hit open guys. He hit his first four throws, three of which went for more than 15 yards. But the play where he threw the pick six seemed to throw the light switch into the off position. On the next drive he missed a wide open receiver and took a sack that was wiped out by a roughing penalty on Sendejo. And then we ran a Hurts play, which I think was a bad move since the last thing Wentz needed was for the backup QB to be in the game at that point. And then on third and 3 he missed Jeffery wide open by refusing to throw the pass and was sacked.

The next drive he attempted one pass, and was punctuated by a third down read option that was just a horrible play call.

The sad thing is that we were running the ball really well at this point, and he could have done play action and a roll out, which was what we needed at this point. Kelce was out, Peters was playing horribly and he wasn't getting time to throw. Or run a jet sweep with Reagor. Or anything to shake things up.

The rest of the game he was really bad, except for two throws to Richard Rodgers. On the near Fulgham interception in the end zone, he had Greg Ward being covered by a linebacker and didn't throw it. They blitzed a safety and the slot corner, and he has to know he will have a good matchup when that happens.

The oline wasn't great, and Peters was really bad. He went out on the first drive, and they should have left him on the bench. But the two problems I saw were a lack of creativity in the playcalling and Wentz not being decisive after the pick six. I also think drafting a qb in the second round was a colossally stupid thing to do, as I think it has had a negative impact on him. He seems too afraid to make mistakes, which is a huge change from last year.

On defense, we played well against a bad team. Mills had a great tackle at the goal line and then did nothing the rest of the game. He gave up a huge pass play, and was probably at fault on the Maddox PI penalty in the end zone as I think he would have had the coverage there, but was fooled by the play action.

Taylor didn't look great. He was flattened on a block by a wr. He looked lost at times, but I think there's something there. He is clearly super fast. On one play he had a pass completed over him, but his recovery speed was clearly there.

Wallace was juked out of his shoes by Hunt on a run.

Maddox was a disaster. I like him as a slot corner or a safety, but he can't play outside.

Sweat was turned around pretty good on a play action pass. He gets crossed up on those plays several times a game. Ostman had a forgettable debut. I wonder if Miller will get a call up if Curry can't go again.

I really like how Singleton and Edwards played. They aren't perfect, but I think if they added a good safety and a good CB2, this defense would be fine. The LBs make enough plays to make up for the ones they miss. Cleveland runs the ball really well, and the LBs kept them in check most of the day. The two longest runs featured bad mistakes by Ostman and Wallace.

But we will get a better idea of how good they are over the next few weeks.

Overall, I think it is clear what we need to fix the defense. The offense, I am not so sure. Wentz needs better playcalling and to play with more confidence. He has to deliver the ball earlier and recognize what is happening around him. If it were me, I would make Hurts inactive the rest of the season, sending him a clear message that he is the guy. I would roll him out more. I would take Ward off the field and throw the short passes he gets to Reagor instead. I would roll with Reagor, Fulgham, Goedert and Rodgers until Ertz is back, and then go with those four the rest of the way.

But none of that will happen, so I honestly don't think this offense is going to get any better. 

  

30 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

I think its a combo of a few things

1- With all the oline issues Wentz is getting pressure instantly. As a QB you get a clock in your head that your use to. His clock in his head knows as soon as he gets the ball he has defenders in his face. This causes bad throws, bad decisions.

2- His recs cant get open. Doug feels our WRs can get open on their own. They can't. Doug refuses to design or call plays that will create separation for his recs. I think Carson is getting frustrated with this and is trying to force throws. 

3- The one I hate the most is Dougs practices. No contact, only give 50% like a walk through so you dont risk an injury and wear down the players. Prob is if you practice soft and dont prepare yourself, your going to play soft and play like crap when the gave is for real and defenders are flying around the ball. I think this is also our injury problem. Anyone who plays football know you prepare your body by taking hits. If you practice soft and start taking hits at full speed your going to get hurt.

What is even funnier was Dougs suggestion that they should maybe tone practices down more to give players more rest this week. Really? 

  Well, I agree that the Oline has had issues. But as a QB, how many seconds are you good with to have the O-Line keep you clean? Well, our misfit O-Line has repeatedly gave Wentz 3 plus seconds. That is not the problem, no matter how many times I hear it. Wentz holding onto the ball for over 3 seconds is an issue. Perfect example was when the defense stopped the Browns on the goal line. What is the one thing you want to do as a QB? NOT TAKE a SACK! Yet he has 3 open WR's, but holds onto the ball for over 3 seconds and takes a sack!! He has lost whatever edge he had in 2017. This is not going to be fixed in one game. Heck it may never be fixed at this point. Wentz needs someone in his ear ALL game long. Helping him and telling him to do this or that. He needs to relearn this offense.

    His confidence is shot. He is a shell of what he was and I feel bad for him. Not all of his fault, but he has not helped his cause. I keep hearing about having the coach call roll outs. Why cannot he just feel the pressure and roll out on his own? Russell does this, Rodgers does this. Heck so does Mahomes, Jackson, Allen, Jones, Lock and every other QB in the league....

  Sure Doug could aid with a called roll out play, but it is not like Wentz is stuck in the pocket..........

4 minutes ago, stine said:

  Well, I agree that the Oline has had issues. But as a QB, how many seconds are you good with to have the O-Line keep you clean? Well, our misfit O-Line has repeatedly gave Wentz 3 plus seconds. That is not the problem, no matter how many times I hear it. Wentz holding onto the ball for over 3 seconds is an issue. Perfect example was when the defense stopped the Browns on the goal line. What is the one thing you want to do as a QB? NOT TAKE a SACK! Yet he has 3 open WR's, but holds onto the ball for over 3 seconds and takes a sack!! He has lost whatever edge he had in 2017. This is not going to be fixed in one game. Heck it may never be fixed at this point. Wentz needs someone in his ear ALL game long. Helping him and telling him to do this or that. He needs to relearn this offense.

    His confidence is shot. He is a shell of what he was and I feel bad for him. Not all of his fault, but he has not helped his cause. I keep hearing about having the coach call roll outs. Why cannot he just feel the pressure and roll out on his own? Russell does this, Rodgers does this. Heck so does Mahomes, Jackson, Allen, Jones, Lock and every other QB in the league....

  Sure Doug could aid with a called roll out play, but it is not like Wentz is stuck in the pocket..........

What pocket?  The O line can apply for a job as a revolving door.

6 minutes ago, Asg 15 said:

What pocket?  The O line can apply for a job as a revolving door.

It is pretty clear that Wentz isn't getting the time he needs. And it is somewhat inexcusable that he isn't having more designed rollouts called. Every one of Baker's big throws was on designed roll outs, which gave his receivers time to get deep.

But there are too many plays where he is missing wide open guys. On the pick six he had both Reagor and Fulgham open. On a third and three, he had Jeffery open. On a third down, he had Ward on a linebacker wide open. On the safety he had Goedert wide open, as well as a checkdown.

He had time on all those plays, yet he didn't throw the ball. He was also way late on the Rogers TD. It was just a blown coverage.

He did make some good throws. Early on he was fine. The Browns were back on their heels and it looked like he was going to have a big day. But then he made that mistake on the pick six and he was done for the day.

 

 

8 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

It is pretty clear that Wentz isn't getting the time he needs. And it is somewhat inexcusable that he isn't having more designed rollouts called. Every one of Baker's big throws was on designed roll outs, which gave his receivers time to get deep.

But there are too many plays where he is missing wide open guys. On the pick six he had both Reagor and Fulgham open. On a third and three, he had Jeffery open. On a third down, he had Ward on a linebacker wide open. On the safety he had Goedert wide open, as well as a checkdown.

He had time on all those plays, yet he didn't throw the ball. He was also way late on the Rogers TD. It was just a blown coverage.

He did make some good throws. Early on he was fine. The Browns were back on their heels and it looked like he was going to have a big day. But then he made that mistake on the pick six and he was done for the day.

 

 

  He has 3 seconds most of the time. It may not look like it but all of the networks are saying the same thing. He is holding onto the ball too long...

11 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

It is pretty clear that Wentz isn't getting the time he needs. And it is somewhat inexcusable that he isn't having more designed rollouts called. Every one of Baker's big throws was on designed roll outs, which gave his receivers time to get deep.

But there are too many plays where he is missing wide open guys. On the pick six he had both Reagor and Fulgham open. On a third and three, he had Jeffery open. On a third down, he had Ward on a linebacker wide open. On the safety he had Goedert wide open, as well as a checkdown.

He had time on all those plays, yet he didn't throw the ball. He was also way late on the Rogers TD. It was just a blown coverage.

He did make some good throws. Early on he was fine. The Browns were back on their heels and it looked like he was going to have a big day. But then he made that mistake on the pick six and he was done for the day.

 

 

It looked to me like he got hit in the back as he was releasing the ball. There are plenty of itmes i'll blame Wentz for a bad interception but this isn't one of them.

3 minutes ago, stine said:

  He has 3 seconds most of the time. It may not look like it but all of the networks are saying the same thing. He is holding onto the ball too long...

I think the two throws right before the pick six show what he can do when he's right. The first was from his own end zone. He hit Reagor on a deep out pattern. The ball was delivered before Reagor made his break. It was virtually unstoppable.

The second was to Goedert. He threw the ball in under two seconds. He just trusted that Goedert was going to make a play against man coverage.

That's the Wentz we need. The rest of the game there was none of that. He waited for guys to get open, and refused to throw anything anticipating that they would get open. It was like he was a completely different qb. 

48 minutes ago, stine said:

DUDE, that boat has sailed also. Defense has no faith in Doug or Wentz.

Judging by how Graham answered certain questions in a recent interview, I’d say you are right.  

13 hours ago, time2rock said:

Agreed.  I think giving Duce "Assistant HC” title was nothing more than to appease him when we passed on promoting him to OC in favor of bumping up Groh.  

It also is a good business decision. A guy can only leave you for a step up in job. Basically meaning we won’t lose Duce unless he becomes a Head Coach. Or we grant him permission. I think we’ve been very good to him. Given him experience with interviewing. We don’t want to lose him. But he’s a big time part of the family as a player and coach. Gotta treat those people right. 

5 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I think the two throws right before the pick six show what he can do when he's right. The first was from his own end zone. He hit Reagor on a deep out pattern. The ball was delivered before Reagor made his break. It was virtually unstoppable.

The second was to Goedert. He threw the ball in under two seconds. He just trusted that Goedert was going to make a play against man coverage.

That's the Wentz we need. The rest of the game there was none of that. He waited for guys to get open, and refused to throw anything anticipating that they would get open. It was like he was a completely different qb. 

  One thing no one mentions is that Wentz can help himself by changing the snap count. He is guilty of snapping the ball on the same count EVERY play! This allows the defense to get a great jump on the ball. Just thought maybe when you look at the film, see what I mean.......

13 minutes ago, stine said:

  One thing no one mentions is that Wentz can help himself by changing the snap count. He is guilty of snapping the ball on the same count EVERY play! This allows the defense to get a great jump on the ball. Just thought maybe when you look at the film, see what I mean.......

I think that's hard with the number of new linemen we were putting in the game. You are more apt to screw them up then the defense.

To me, the biggest change was that early in the game he was throwing with anticipation. The throws to Reagor and Goedert were A+ efforts. After that, I never saw it. On one play, he had a deep out to Fulgham that was just late, allowing the defender to make the play. It was a totally different throw than the one he made to Reagor earlier.

The old Wentz is still there. He just has to trust himself to make the throws, and his receivers to make the catches. To me, it's a confidence issue more than anything, and he isn't being helped by the playcalling.