EMB Blog: 2021 Training Camp / Preseason

[eagle45]

5 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

The bolded is simply not true.  Looking through pre-draft rankings from the days before the draft, and the highest I’ve seen Jefferson ranked is 5th, other sites had him 7th or 8th, right around the same range as Reagor.  Walter football is closest to your assertion; they had Jefferson 5th and Reagor 8th — but most draft sites had them ranked similarly.

If anything, Jefferson was a consensus 2nd round prospect on boards until he ran at the combine, then when scouts saw him run low 4.4s he shot up draft boards into the 1st round as a prospect.  Prior to that he was labelled solely as a slot WR.

Jefferson was always going to be graded as the volume target who would amass a lot of receptions; very few scouts saw him as an explosive player.  Reagor was always graded as a lower volume but higher big-play WR prospect.  Howie chose to select the player with more big-play ability because the Eagles offense outside of Desean was terribly slow.

I didn’t like Jefferson for this team and liked the Reagor pick.  
 

But this is one, small example of the workouts mattering.  Jefferson’s stock went up after he ran faster and quicker than expected, despite concerns that he wasn’t a burner.  Reagor was regarded as a burner against bad competition and ran much slower than expected.  
 

When the curtain was raised on their rookie seasons, both workouts made sense.

[Iggles_Phan]

30 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Speed isn't always going to get you separation.  What I liked about the catch is that he high pointed the ball and made a nice one handed catch.  The fact that Slay is on him may have to do with the route rather than whether he was playing at full speed. It's hard to know much about that play other than the catch. 

I really take the run fast comment to be about getting him to use his best attribute.  Does it mean they're not happy? I don't know.  They won't be if he's playing slow.  If they are getting him to focus on always running fast because they think that translates into better routes in the games. In other words, don't worry about nmaking an exact cut at 10 yards worry about making a cut and running as fast as you can.  

No, speed alone won't always get you separation, but good route running with speed is pretty much a guarantee.

 

But, not a single thing from that video said "speed".  It mostly said, 'Slay pulled up', 'nice one handed catch', 'good body control'.  

[eagle45]

47 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

25 rushes per game for the RB's.  Not 25 touches per game.  And I hope we wouldn't use last year as a barometer of how to employ the running backs.  We need to be run heavy.  We need to use the backs out of the backfield more.  Assuming Hurts is the QB.  We averaged 66 plays per game.  With 38% of those plays being rush plays.  That obviously is not enough.  We need to be at least 55% rush in order for this team to be successful.  So I would ask to have at least 4 guys dress, with one being a return option.  Split Sanders out at times, with two rb on the field.  Again, at times.  This team is going to need to focus on the short passing game and pre-snap movement.  Our WR and QB just aren't good enough to carry the offense.  RB and OLine are more of a strength then the passing game.  We need to use it.  But will Lurie let us, is the real question.  

If we become a run dominant offense with short underneath passing, it may fit our crappy personnel better, but the best case scenario is a loss in the wild card round…with zero long term progression towards becoming a competitive team.

[bpac55]

17 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

That's because you're a Steelers fan.  

[BigEFly]

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No, speed alone won't always get you separation, but good route running with speed is pretty much a guarantee.

 

But, not a single thing from that video said "speed".  It mostly said, 'Slay pulled up', 'nice one handed catch', 'good body control'.  

Slay is faster than Reagor.  He ran a 4.36 forty.  One of the reasons his age is less of a concern as long as his hamstrings hold up.  That said, noting suggested either were running at speed.

[Alphagrand]

37 minutes ago, greend said:

Howie has opened a new door to eating millions of dollars in cap hit. People don't have to worry about looking like fools anymore

A pioneer, a trailblazer .... if you will

[bpac55]

More RB talk fitting in to today's conversation.  This is from Dave Zangaro. 

 

I’ll say the battle at running back. We know that Miles Sanders is the starter and based on reps in training camp, Boston Scott is clearly the No. 2. But after that, rookie Kenny Gainwell, second-year guy Jason Huntley and veterans Kerryon Johnson and Jordan Howard are battling it out to make the roster and then to get some playing time this season. The reason I think this has been the most competitive battle is because all four of those players — Gainwell, Huntley, Johnson and Howard — have had really good moments through the first eight practices. Here’s a little synopsis of each player.

Kenny Gainwell: He got off to a slow start but that’s to be expected from a fifth-round pick out of Memphis who opted out of the 2020 season. He had to adjust to NFL speed while kicking off rust. What we have seen from Gainwell is his ability as a receiver out of the backfield, which is where he could make an immediate impact with this team.

Jason Huntley: I didn’t know what to expect from Huntley. The Eagles claimed him from the Lions after final cuts last year and he was mostly an afterthought. But this summer it has become clear why the Eagles kept him around. He can fly. It seems like just about every day he’s breaking off an explosive run.

Kerryon Johnson: Another former Lions running back, I had questions about how Johnson would look. I know he’s just 24 but he has had knee injuries and I wondered if he’d have any bounce left. He does. He hasn’t been spectacular during camp, but he doesn’t look like a washed up running back either.

Jordan Howard: I’ve also been impressed with the 26-year-old Howard, who is getting a lot of carries with the second team, more than the others. I don’t know if he’ll ever get back to being the guy he was early in his career, but I’ve been impressed by him this camp.

[Sack that QB]

Should be somewhat of a red flag if the team best at identifying WR talent in the NFL doesn't play Washington a lot. But I'd take him for cheap.

I think it would be a mistake to just replace Fulgham with him though, I think Fulgham has a chance to be really good. But can never hurt to keep adding bodies and just let competition sort it all out.

Howie should be preserving picks at all cost though. So maybe a player for player swap. Dillard?

[Alphagrand]

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

More RB talk fitting in to today's conversation.  This is from Dave Zangaro. 

 

I’ll say the battle at running back. We know that Miles Sanders is the starter and based on reps in training camp, Boston Scott is clearly the No. 2. But after that, rookie Kenny Gainwell, second-year guy Jason Huntley and veterans Kerryon Johnson and Jordan Howard are battling it out to make the roster and then to get some playing time this season. The reason I think this has been the most competitive battle is because all four of those players — Gainwell, Huntley, Johnson and Howard — have had really good moments through the first eight practices. Here’s a little synopsis of each player.

Kenny Gainwell: He got off to a slow start but that’s to be expected from a fifth-round pick out of Memphis who opted out of the 2020 season. He had to adjust to NFL speed while kicking off rust. What we have seen from Gainwell is his ability as a receiver out of the backfield, which is where he could make an immediate impact with this team.

Jason Huntley: I didn’t know what to expect from Huntley. The Eagles claimed him from the Lions after final cuts last year and he was mostly an afterthought. But this summer it has become clear why the Eagles kept him around. He can fly. It seems like just about every day he’s breaking off an explosive run.

Kerryon Johnson: Another former Lions running back, I had questions about how Johnson would look. I know he’s just 24 but he has had knee injuries and I wondered if he’d have any bounce left. He does. He hasn’t been spectacular during camp, but he doesn’t look like a washed up running back either.

Jordan Howard: I’ve also been impressed with the 26-year-old Howard, who is getting a lot of carries with the second team, more than the others. I don’t know if he’ll ever get back to being the guy he was early in his career, but I’ve been impressed by him this camp.

Sanders and Scott for sure.  Gainwell/Huntley would be Gainwell on the 53 and Huntley on the PS.  Howard/Johnson would be won by Howard IMO.

[eagle45]

4 hours ago, BigEFly said:

 
Allegedly, the Eagles had McPhearson as a third round value on their board. (Howie says something like that every draft so take it with a grain of salt.)

1st round pick we never expected to be there.  2nd round pick we had targeted as a possible in round 1.  3rd round pick had a 2nd round grade.  Everyone after round 3 had a 3rd round grade.

[Texas Eagle]

4 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Should be somewhat of a red flag if the team best at identifying WR talent in the NFL doesn't play Washington a lot. But I'd take him for cheap.

I think it would be a mistake to just replace Fulgham with him though, I think Fulgham has a chance to be really good. But can never hurt to keep adding bodies and just let competition sort it all out.

Howie should be preserving picks at all cost though. So maybe a player for player swap. Dillard?

Earmuffs @eagle45 

[Saltpeter]

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

More RB talk fitting in to today's conversation.  This is from Dave Zangaro. 

 

I’ll say the battle at running back. We know that Miles Sanders is the starter and based on reps in training camp, Boston Scott is clearly the No. 2. But after that, rookie Kenny Gainwell, second-year guy Jason Huntley and veterans Kerryon Johnson and Jordan Howard are battling it out to make the roster and then to get some playing time this season. The reason I think this has been the most competitive battle is because all four of those players — Gainwell, Huntley, Johnson and Howard — have had really good moments through the first eight practices. Here’s a little synopsis of each player.

Kenny Gainwell: He got off to a slow start but that’s to be expected from a fifth-round pick out of Memphis who opted out of the 2020 season. He had to adjust to NFL speed while kicking off rust. What we have seen from Gainwell is his ability as a receiver out of the backfield, which is where he could make an immediate impact with this team.

Jason Huntley: I didn’t know what to expect from Huntley. The Eagles claimed him from the Lions after final cuts last year and he was mostly an afterthought. But this summer it has become clear why the Eagles kept him around. He can fly. It seems like just about every day he’s breaking off an explosive run.

Kerryon Johnson: Another former Lions running back, I had questions about how Johnson would look. I know he’s just 24 but he has had knee injuries and I wondered if he’d have any bounce left. He does. He hasn’t been spectacular during camp, but he doesn’t look like a washed up running back either.

Jordan Howard: I’ve also been impressed with the 26-year-old Howard, who is getting a lot of carries with the second team, more than the others. I don’t know if he’ll ever get back to being the guy he was early in his career, but I’ve been impressed by him this camp.

Boston Scott was overused last year, so the thought of playing him even more is not very enticing to me.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

5 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

1st round pick we never expected to be there.  2nd round pick we had targeted as a possible in round 1.  3rd round pick had a 2nd round grade.  Everyone after round 3 had a 3rd round grade.

[jmac+djaxallday]

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Yeah their defense was top 6 last year and special teams top 5. They added Will fuller at wr along with waddle. And they had Parker who has been solid to good the last couple years. I didn’t mention gesicki who was actually good last year at tight end. Their oline is was not good but they also added in the draft and had a bunch of young guys last year who should improve and were ok at RB when gaskin was healthy. Also they have a very good young coach.

They won 10 games last year with Tua as a rookie not playing well and Ryan Fitzpatrick as a starting quarterback who was up and down at times. So you’re telling me if you put the Watson in place of those two quarterbacks they’re not coming away with more than 10 wins when they lost 4 games by less than a touchdown because of bad quarterback in those games? They could’ve potentially been a 12-4 type team with watson there last year. That would be third best record in the conference. 

I don't think they're terrible, but they were aided last year by a friendly schedule and a turnover rate that's probably not sustainable.  Against playoff teams they were just 1-4 and got outgained/outscored pretty considerably.  The only win in there came against the Rams where they were outgained 471 to 145 and benefitted from a couple of D/ST scores.  Good QBs pretty much picked them apart and any front four with a pulse obliterated them up front.  They really need to upgrade their talent on the offensive line and the front seven - until then I consider the roster average at best and probably not much different than the Houston teams Watson was playing on prior to last season.  A couple of questionable drafting decisions recently has really held them back IMO.

[SNOORDA]

45 minutes ago, Khani1 said:

We just drafted receiver back to back with our first round picks.  It would be foolish to then sign a WR as a free agent.  Let Watkins, Reagor, Hightower play and see what they have.

I feel it would be foolish not to make moves you think will upgrade your 53 man roster just because of draft capital you’ve used at any one position 

[Dwide Schrude]

You guys remember 2018/2019 when we had practice squad WR playing in final weeks of the season??
Competition is great, and I’d be interested in Washington only depending on the cost. A 6th or 7th founder sounds good to me, anything higher & it’s a no go. 
 

More WR depth/talent/competition the better

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

1 hour ago, jmac+djaxallday said:

I don't think they're terrible, but they were aided last year by a friendly schedule and a turnover rate that's probably not sustainable.  Against playoff teams they were just 1-4 and got outgained/outscored pretty considerably.  The only win in there came against the Rams where they were outgained 471 to 145 and benefitted from a couple of D/ST scores.  Good QBs pretty much picked them apart and any front four with a pulse obliterated them up front.  They really need to upgrade their talent on the offensive line and the front seven - until then I consider the roster average at best and probably not much different than the Houston teams Watson was playing on prior to last season.  A couple of questionable drafting decisions recently has really held them back IMO.

They lost by 3 to the bills week 2 mainly cause QB was bad for 3 quarters. 10 to the Patriots week 1 cause the QB play sucked. And 6 to the chiefs same reason. Lost by 7 to Denver in Denver due to QB play yet again. So that’s four games they potentially could have won if Deshaun Watson was playing out there cause he offense would’ve been much better than with tua/Fitzpatrick.

I do not care what their schedule was it’s still hard to win 10 games and with watson potentially even more. the bills got destroyed by the Titans and beat a Steelers team that was in free fall when they played them as the only difference in schedule. They managed to be the second best team in the AFC. If Watson is on the dolphins last year there is the potential that they are as good as the bills last year with a better defense (bills defense was worse than the Dolphins). The bills destroyed the dolphins last year week 17 cause tua was atrocious. Also they played out of division against the afc north (3 playoff teams) and nfc west were two of the best divisions in the league. 

also that Rams game you are talking about the dolphins got up 28 to 7 because of their defense taking advantage of goff and their strong special teams. then the Rams had a bunch of garbage time yards to make it look like their offense was good. So if watson was there they might score more than 28 points in that game might be even more of a blowout than what it turned out to be

Also you’re saying their defense got tore up by good quarterback almost every defense last year against Kansas City and Buffalo got torn up. Even the bucs during the regular season got tore up by the chiefs offense. The Seattle Seahawks game, 2 interceptions by Ryan Fitzpatrick one deep in their own territory and the other at midfield set up two touchdowns for the Seahawks. So that 31 points seattle scored, 14 of them you can directly be contributed to a bad quarterback play as much as the defense. And the raiders game tua was averaging 4.3 yards per pass. As soon as he got benched for Fitz the offense took off and played significantly better. That game if fitz started and finished might not have even been close and the defense got punished being on the field consistently the entire first half of the game and still only gave up 25 on the road 

the Texans while Deshaun Watson was there they had the 4th overall defense in 2018. They won 11 games. In 2019 they dropped to 19th and if they played week 17 would’ve likely won 11 games. Last year they plummeted all the way to 27th. So based off since 2019, a better defense and special teams unit and he managed to win 10 games season. (Could’ve been 11 if they played a meaningless week 17 game). I would also argue much better coaching, better defensive minded coach and much less dysfunction going on since they’ve hired Brian Flores. 

I’ll add they’ve added to that roster this off-season. So you’re telling me if you replace Ryan Fitzpatrick and tua with a top 10 quarterback in watson that team wouldn’t have been at least the third best team in the afc last year? They had 10 wins with a journeyman QB and tua who sucked. If Buffalo was the second best team in the afc last year, if you put watson in Miami i don’t think the gap between Buffalo and Miami is all that much to say Miami wouldn’t have been a contender. 

[BigEFly]

12 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

I feel it would be foolish not to make moves you think will upgrade your 53 man roster just because of draft capital you’ve used at any one position 

Why invest next year draft capital in a player for just this year.   Look at the only trade they made for a player this year.  Scott, who has three years left on a rookie deal.  Eagles aren’t going to be playing for the Super Bowl this season. Grabbing a player with one year left on a rookie deal, who is underperforming his rookie deal that will be an UFA next year is a waste of draft capital. 

[RLC]

39 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Should be somewhat of a red flag if the team best at identifying WR talent in the NFL doesn't play Washington a lot. But I'd take him for cheap.

Washington can play. He is a vertical WR playing for a team with a bad OL and a QB that can no longer throw deep. It's a bad fit.

It's why JuJu and Johnson get so many targets for them.

[Alphagrand]

3 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Why invest next year draft capital in a player for just this year.   Look at the only trade they made for a player this year.  Scott, who has three years left on a rookie deal.  Eagles aren’t going to be playing for the Super Bowl this season. Grabbing a player with one year left on a rookie deal, who is underperforming his rookie deal that will be an UFA next year is a waste of draft capital. 

[BigEFly]

1 minute ago, RLC said:

Washington can play. He is a vertical WR playing for a team with a bad OL and a QB that can no longer throw deep. It's a bad fit.

It's why JuJu and Johnson get so many targets for them.

Maybe it’s a catch rate that would only make JJAW and rookie John Hightower proud might be a reason for decreasing use.   Can’t beat you competition on your team, ask for a trade.  No thanks.

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

27 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Why invest next year draft capital in a player for just this year.   Look at the only trade they made for a player this year.  Scott, who has three years left on a rookie deal.  Eagles aren’t going to be playing for the Super Bowl this season. Grabbing a player with one year left on a rookie deal, who is underperforming his rookie deal that will be an UFA next year is a waste of draft capital. 

Well thanks for crushing my hopes! Lol jk 

[Utebird]

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Actually... he didn't look 'fast' on that particular play.  Slay was right there with him.  Reagor turned around, found the ball and did a nice job of bringing it in.  That said, Slay made minimal effort and contact, due to the nature of the practice.  And the last adjective to come to mind on that particular play is 'fast'.  Fast players don't have a DB right on top of them like that, they've already created a lot of separation.  There was virtually none on that play.  

 

But, one play doesn't immediately erase the observations of not playing to his speed for the past year.  And if a coach needs to say 'at least run fast', that would imply that they aren't happy with other things as well as the slower speed than his best.  You would have to wonder if he's not putting out his best speed at practice what else he might be holding back as well.   All of these things speak to a mental or heart thing, not a talent issue.  But, when a player is a 'high ceiling/low floor' player like Reagor was coming out, all those intangibles are what determine whether they reach the ceiling or get stuck to the floor.  Right now, Reagor is far closer to the floor than the ceiling.  He has to work to get to the ceiling, its not a given.   In the NFL everyone is talented. 

 

That's a lot of guesses based off one catch and one comment from a coach.

How bout we just stick with nice catch from reagor and Siriani is trying to get the best out if reagor.

[greend]

1 hour ago, Khani1 said:

Let's revisit this statement mid season.

Okay, in what way?

[Utebird]

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's a foolish question.  The answer is: NO, its just practice.   And for the record, Jefferson has far less to prove than Reagor.  Jefferson has already proven he can play in the NFL and at a Pro Bowl level. Has Reagor?   

 

We are focusing so much on Reagor because he was a disappointment last year and folks are looking for glimmers of hope that he can make a giant leap forward from last year.  There is no such concern regarding Jefferson.

If it's " just practice," then the drop and the not running full speed doesn't matter either

Can't have it both ways when reagor does something good and say it's just practice and then when he makes a mistake draw any conclusions from it.

Im fine with ripping reagor it's the dismissal of anything positive that's tired.