8 minutes ago, QuinnWR4 said:

Oh how I miss the JJ days. 

We all do.  JJ, Bud Carson, Buddy Ryan, even Marion Campbell... we've had some great DCs and some great defenses going back 40+ years.   That's why we hate passive defense, all of those guys were attacking style defensive coordinators (Buddy was the DC much more than he was the HC in his time here).  

That said... I think Gannon did far better than a lot of people realize when you consider that they were basically duct tape and well wishes on the back 7, with the exception of Slay.   McLeod isn't what he was, but still capable of a few plays.  Harris is nothing to write home about.  There's a reason Nelson was available for as long as he was.  They signed Wilson only to cut him.  Edwards is ok, but limited.  Singleton is a fiery guy, but not much to get excited about.  Taylor showed brief flashes in between his injuries.  Avery has made a half dozen plays or so all year.  That's nice.   He chose death by a thousand cuts hoping that the opposition would screw up enough to not do too much damage... and it has worked pretty well in terms of overall wins and losses and total points allowed.  Believe it or not, the Eagles ended up 8th in defensive ppg. That's nothing to sneeze at... yes, against the weakest schedule, but still... they did the job they were supposed to do.

JJ's old number was 17.  Well, this defense held the opponent to 17 or fewer 7 times.  They held the opponent to 20 or fewer 10 times.  They won all but two of those games.  I am actually curious about what they could be next year with Gannon knowing who they have and with some better pieces somehow in the mix.  

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

How often do you get into bar fights? Since it's obvious you were raised in a barn.

Never.  Because people I have discussions with don’t run away and hide when facts that contradict their argument are presented.  So, gonna address the 2018 Packers had a statistically identical defense to the Super Bowl Rams ??

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

afan, please do me a favor, don't quote downundermike.  Doing so forces me to see his drivel.

Another one that can not handle a differing opinion and hides behind ignore

21 minutes ago, austinfan said:

People are using "franchise QB" and "elite QB" interchangeably.  Methinks they're not the same thing.

A franchise QB is merely one good enough for a team to commit to starting them for an extended periods, say 4-5 years. Usually they're good enough to be in the top 15 or so.

An elite QB is just that, one of three or four (depending on the time period) QBs who are a tier above their peers, who can carry mediocre teams to the playoffs and good teams to the SB. They can overcome some, but not all flaws. By definition, they're rare, and when a team has one, they don't become available unless there are some issues (age, injury, money, etc.), in which case they're usually not elite (or not for long) with their new team.

You can find and develop a franchise QB, Hurts might become one in a year or two, or not. You have to be awfully lucky to land an elite QB.

Eli Manning was not an elite QB by any measure, but he was a franchise QB.

 

 

My definition of a franchise QB is different.  A franchise QB is one that transcends coaching staffs.  A QB that the organization will invest in and build around and try to make a contending team with that player even if that means going through more than one coaching staff but keeping that QB.  

24 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You can find and develop a franchise QB, Hurts might become one in a year or two, or not. You have to be awfully lucky to land an elite QB.

I will ask again.  Eagles are a playoff team right now, how many games do you think Hurts can win in the playoffs, 1, 2, 3 or 4 ??

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Well to be fair.  I have a bunch of morons and worthless trolls on ignore. It’s not hiding.  Mattwill wasn’t missed. 

Well you know I am neither, people just don’t want to hear the truth.

23 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I think I just found a timewarp of about a decade.   Didn't we already have this conversation back in about 2012?  Maybe it was earlier than that.

I made the argument last off-season that since trading Donovan McNabb, the Eagles have been searching for a consistent franchise quarterback that plays like it year to year. They’ve gotten a few seasons here and there but never consistently year to year. The most consistency they’ve had was 2017-2019 and I’d argue 2018 it really wasn’t franchise level and one of the reasons they barely made it to the playoffs and had to hope cousins choked. 2019 they got it the last month of the year  

Since McNabb was traded they had 2010 Mike Vick, 27-2 Nick Foles, 2017 Carson Wentz/Nick Foles and end of the season 2019 Carson Wentz where i consider they got franchise type level QB play. There’s a reason from 2011 to 2016 the eagles made the playoffs once in six seasons. They had a bunch of different issues but right at the top and a major reason was Quarterback play was not good enough outside of 2013. Heck it is the reason why Jeffrey and Howie went out to go get Carson Wentz.

one of the reasons why I dislike when somebody just goes, don’t worry a quarterback will just come along in the next two years. really? Because since Donovan McNabb has left the Eagles haven’t exactly fix that problem except for a few seasons and still find themselves searching once again 

 

Just now, ManuManu said:

 

Business will be boomin for the mental health professionals treating him

Just now, ManuManu said:

 

Major league football might sign him. Maybe CFL. Otherwise he’s gonna be like TO pleading with teams to let him try out for a spot. Frankly the only reason why I think he got another opportunity was because Tom Brady put his ass on the line for him and with his clout inside that organization. Otherwise I don’t think he has anybody left in his corner to pull those strings. 

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Major league football might sign him. Maybe CFL. Otherwise he’s gonna be like TO pleading with teams to let him try out for a spot. Frankly the only reason why I think he got another opportunity was because Tom Brady put his ass on the line for him and with his clout inside that organization. Otherwise I don’t think he has anybody left in his corner to pull those strings. 

Maybe being around a true humanitarian like Jalen Hurts is the only thing that can help him.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Maybe being around a true humanitarian like Jalen Hurts is the only thing that can help him.

Frankly I think the Bucs wanted to release him after his vaccine fiasco. Only reason why they couldn’t was because they lost Mike Evans and godwin the same game. If godwin didn’t tear his Acl i think he’s gone a couple weeks ago. 

I think the vaccine fiasco and everything before that made tampa his last stop. His ankle might be Fed up and your ankle is bothering you but you were dumb enough to run then jump up and down on it in the Endzone like a moron leaving the field.

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

If he falls because of his bad ankle, Hurts can help him up off the ground, with poise.  

AB needs a "calm composure” like that in his life.

My definitions for elite QB and franchise QB have merged over the years. To me a franchise QB is a QB who you’ve given the franchise over to. You’ve decided they’re your guy moving forward. But I don’t think any franchise that knows what it is doing can truly do that unless it’s an elite QB. "Top 15” is totally an arbitrary cutoff. For example, Kirk Cousins is always the poster child for that middle tier guy. And he’s had some very good statistical seasons. Under the "top 15” classification, he’d be a franchise QB. But hypothetically if the Vikings found themselves in the position to draft Bryce Young in a year, they’d do it in a heartbeat and he’d be their franchise QB. If that’s the case, then Cousins truly isn’t a franchise QB. Someone can’t be a franchise QB if you’re comfortable replacing them. 
 

Other than having a top 5 NBA player, there is perhaps no greater advantage in sports than having an elite QB. It doesn’t mean you’re going to be the best team ever year,, , but it’s the single best advantage you can have in the NFL. Unless the differences in QBs are minimal and the team with the slightly lesser QB has a significant advantage somewhere else, if you go into a game with a major advantage at QB, then you have a significant leg up.

I don’t understand why this has suddenly gotten so complicated to so many. This isn’t even a slight on Hurts per se. He isn’t a bad player. But you should always be looking to upgrade every position, especially the most important ones. There just so happens to be 3 potential top level QBs who may be available in one off-season. If this wasn’t a reality, I don’t think there’d be nearly as much talk about moving on from Hurts, because then it would be just about the draft, and the draft class sucks. But whether it’s trading for a QB or positioning themselves to draft a QB in a future and better QB class, getting one of those top 5 guys should always be the goal they’re aiming for. It doesn’t mean they’ll get it done, but it should always be the mission.

 

18 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I made the argument last off-season that since trading Donovan McNabb, the Eagles have been searching for a consistent franchise quarterback that plays like it year to year. They’ve gotten a few seasons here and there but never consistently year to year. The most consistency they’ve had was 2017-2019 and I’d argue 2018 it really wasn’t franchise level and one of the reasons they barely made it to the playoffs and had to hope cousins choked. 2019 they got it the last month of the year  

Since McNabb was traded they had 2010 Mike Vick, 27-2 Nick Foles, 2017 Carson Wentz/Nick Foles and end of the season 2019 Carson Wentz where i consider they got franchise type level QB play. There’s a reason from 2011 to 2016 the eagles made the playoffs once in six seasons. They had a bunch of different issues but right at the top and a major reason was Quarterback play was not good enough outside of 2013. Heck it is the reason why Jeffrey and Howie went out to go get Carson Wentz.

one of the reasons why I dislike when somebody just goes, don’t worry a quarterback will just come along in the next two years. really? Because since Donovan McNabb has left the Eagles haven’t exactly fix that problem except for a few seasons and still find themselves searching once again 

Which means don't trade for Rodgers or Wilson, because it'll be the same thing, on or two good years, then kaput. Except you'll have given up a lot of assets.

It's not that Hurts is the answer, it's that getting that franchise QB is often a matter of patience, Indy went from Luck  to Brissett to Wentz, but made the playoffs 3 of 4 years.

So you go with Hurts next year, see how he does, accumulate assets and build a team, and if he's not the answer, you're no worse than you are right now (since you can trade a couple future 1st rd picks from a team likely to pick into the 20s that has a young, established talent base). As TB showed, build a solid roster and you can find a QB. You only go for an aging QB when the window is going to close in a few years, so you go for the brass ring. If you build a solid talent base through the draft, you can maintain it for an extended period (the second contracts are usually high value, it's the third contract in the player's late 20s that kills you).

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Which means don't trade for Rodgers or Wilson, because it'll be the same thing, on or two good years, then kaput. Except you'll have given up a lot of assets.

If you win a Super Bowl it is worth it.  And Rodgers could easily play another 5 years.  He didn’t become a starter until he was 25.  

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

it's the third contract in the player's late 20s that kills you).

Yeah, we know.  Howie has been giving them out like candy on Halloween night recently.

Caleb Williams was offered a one million dollar NIL deal from EMU alum and long time Pittsburgh Steelers QB Charlie Batch.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah, we know.  Howie has been giving them out like candy on Halloween night recently.

 

25 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Which means don't trade for Rodgers or Wilson, because it'll be the same thing, on or two good years, then kaput. Except you'll have given up a lot of assets.

It's not that Hurts is the answer, it's that getting that franchise QB is often a matter of patience, Indy went from Luck  to Brissett to Wentz, but made the playoffs 3 of 4 years.

So you go with Hurts next year, see how he does, accumulate assets and build a team, and if he's not the answer, you're no worse than you are right now (since you can trade a couple future 1st rd picks from a team likely to pick into the 20s that has a young, established talent base). As TB showed, build a solid roster and you can find a QB. You only go for an aging QB when the window is going to close in a few years, so you go for the brass ring. If you build a solid talent base through the draft, you can maintain it for an extended period (the second contracts are usually high value, it's the third contract in the player's late 20s that kills you).

Says you? Russell Wilson is 34 years old there’s a chance he plays for another 5 to 6 years.  Yes he got hurt this year. however the Eagles offensive line compared to the Seahawks offensive line is night and day. So the fact is he could come to the Eagles and something he’s complaining about with the Seahawks not being protected very well and be protected for the next six years. Saying he can only play one or two more years is BS. No one has that answer. There was people who thought Tom Brady was done at 39 and he’s not. Drew Brees played until 41 and he had a major shoulder issue early in his career 

Also I made a giant list of all the Qb who became available since 2010. it’s not that great of a list if you want to just keep waiting on someone better than Wilson, rodgers or watson. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were about the only two that became available that were free agents that were anything worthwhile. And those two were considered closer to the end when they became available so they would have the same problem you’re talking about with Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers being done in a year or two then kaput 

And in the trade department over the last decade, the best trades that were made for quarterbacks over the last decade were Ryan Tannehill, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer, Alex smith or Jimmy G. So I much rather have all three of the quarterbacks are potentially available this off-season then all five of those trades that went down at those times. 

The Tampa Bay model is the worst model to follow because Tampa Bay missed the playoffs from 2008-2019. So unless you’re gonna wind up being a crap team for a decade to build up your roster up and pray for somebody like Tom Brady becomes available I don’t suggest using the Tampa Bay buccaneers model. Because it took them 12 years for that model to have success.

and let me tell you something about assets, and An asset it’s only worth something if you could do something with it. It’s great when your assets cash in like 2018 and 2021. However it’s also not good when they become hinderances or failures like 2017 and 2019 and our first rounder in 2020. So the assets the Eagles could give up for Russell Wilson could mean he’s done in 1-2 years or he plays for 5-6 at a high level. Now the assets they don’t do that trade because they do your plan could wind up in a 2017 draft or 2019 draft or hitting.  The problem is you don’t see any potential failure in your assets you keep. you just assume all those assets are going to cash In. I don’t because i use facts from the last 5 drafts. The Eagles are gonna be lucky if the 5 picks in the first 3 rounds that they hit on half of them. Because that’s what they shown over a five-year window with their first, second and third round picks. Since 2017, they’ve had 13 picks in the first three rounds. I’d argue they’ve hit on 5: goedert, sanders, smith, Dickerson (as long as he stays healthy) and hurts (considering they drafted him solely to be a backup and he’s exceeded that). So when you told me they could waste assets on Russell Wilson, well history has shown us they are likely to waste assets anyway

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah, we know.  Howie has been giving them out like candy on Halloween night recently.

Lucky. All I got for Halloween was some lousy automatic voidable years.

13 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Says you? Russell Wilson is 34 years old there’s a chance he plays for another 5 to 6 years.  Yes he got hurt this year. however the Eagles offensive line compared to the Seahawks offensive line is night and day. So the fact is he could come to the Eagles and something he’s complaining about with the Seahawks not being protected very well and be protected for the next six years. Saying he can only play one or two more years is BS. No one has that answer. There was people who thought Tom Brady was done at 39 and he’s not. Drew Brees played until 41 and he had a major shoulder issue early in his career 

Also I made a giant list of all the Qb who became available since 2010. it’s not that great of a list if you want to just keep waiting on someone better than Wilson, rodgers or watson. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning were about the only two that became available that were free agents that were anything worthwhile. And those two were considered closer to the end when they became available so they would have the same problem you’re talking about with Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers being done in a year or two then kaput 

And in the trade department over the last decade, the best trades that were made for quarterbacks over the last decade were Ryan Tannehill, Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer, Alex smith or Jimmy G. So I much rather have all three of the quarterbacks are potentially available this off-season then all five of those trades that went down at those times. 

The Tampa Bay model is the worst model to follow because Tampa Bay missed the playoffs from 2008-2019. So unless you’re gonna wind up being a crap team for a decade to build up your roster up and pray for somebody like Tom Brady becomes available I don’t suggest using the Tampa Bay buccaneers model. Because it took them 12 years for that model to have success.

Didn't TB use a #1 pick on a QB?

How many QBs were still elite at 40? And in the case of Wilson, how good will he be when he starts to lose his mobility, which may already be happening?

When TB went with Brady, it only cost money and didn't impact the team. Same with Denver and Peyton. Stafford is the only trade where serious assets were traded, and part of that was dumping Goff's contract. And even then, Rams are trading picks in the 20s - and are a team in its peak years that already had a SB trip a couple years ago.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Didn't TB use a #1 pick on a QB?

How many QBs were still elite at 40? And in the case of Wilson, how good will he be when he starts to lose his mobility, which may already be happening?

When TB went with Brady, it only cost money and didn't impact the team. Same with Denver and Peyton. Stafford is the only trade where serious assets were traded, and part of that was dumping Goff's contract. And even then, Rams are trading picks in the 20s - and are a team in its peak years that already had a SB trip a couple years ago.

We are a playoff team, how many games do you think Hurts can win.  1, 2, 3 or 4 ??

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

We are a playoff team, how many games do you think Hurts can win.  1, 2, 3 or 4 ??

How many games could Rodgers win with this team? 1, 2?  The defense is mediocre, he has two inexperienced receivers, may not have any RBs, the OL is still learning how to pass block.

I don't care who you put in at QB, this is not a SB caliber team, especially on defense.

Rodgers wouldn't have Adams to throw to. Smith is gong to be very good, but he's still a rookie without someone on the other side to take the pressure off him.