15 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Many are dismissing Minshew as a viable option. We have no information regrading Minshew in this system. I, for one, would like to see it.

I don't see Minshew as a long-term answer.  But, I'd have no problem with seeing him in some games.  

10 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

Many are dismissing Minshew as a viable option. We have no information regrading Minshew in this system. I, for one, would like to see it.

Id like to see Minshew as well.

I was willing to give hurts a shot and I just haven't seen much progression from last to this 

His down field throwing is pretty abysmal, nor does he have the arm to fit the ball in tight windows it's all dink and dunk, I could maybe excuse his arm strength if he were accurate but he's not especially accurate either.

I think he'd be fine as a back up which is what he was drafted as but if one is asking him to start all 17 and lead his team to the playoffs one will be disappointed.

I'm not sure Minshew is that guy either but I think I've seen enough of hurts now to realize he isn't either.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't see Minshew as a long-term answer.  But, I'd have no problem with seeing him in some games.  

I don't know if I do or I don't. But that's the point - I need evidence. 

I am not confident that Sirianni has complete control over the situation.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I can't say I agree with this. Hurts does not have the arm to throw it to Smith. Ertz was the correct read, just a bad pass. 

I disagree with you on that.  Smith is the right throw, but Hurts can't get the ball there.  But that's the right read.   "If he's even, he's leaving."    On the other side, Watkins is also open on a simple hook route, just needs to be thrown to the outside so the LB can't undercut it.

 

But, Hurts just doesn't have the arm to make these NFL throws.  He can put the ball down the field, but the windows aren't big enough for his arm to get the ball in there very often.   He can't 'pull the string'.  The Smith ball would be one that he at least would have the chance to put it up with arc and let Smith run under it.   But, he'd have to release it when Smith puts his arm up to have a chance.   

1 minute ago, Desertbirds said:

I don't know if I do or I don't. But that's the point - I need evidence. 

I am not confident that Sirianni has complete control over the situation.

I am pretty confident that he doesn't.

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I can't say I agree with this. Hurts does not have the arm to throw it to Smith. Ertz was the correct read, just a bad pass. 

Yup I think Westbrook is giving hurts too much credit, he barely got the throw to Ertz, he didn't throw it to Smith because he doesn't have the arm to get it there.

Hurts lack of arm has really held this offense back 

Reagor Smith Watkins are all speedy guys and unless they are wide open hurts just doesn't have the arm to out throw tight coverage like in the above graphic.

19 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

 

 

Been big on TJ Edwards getting more snaps on defense ever since he really started to shine in training camp and preseason as an undrafted rookie.  He was really good in college, just doesn't have the track speed the NFL desires.  But he has natural football instincts to read a play and get to the hole to meet a RB and he can tackle.  He's not going to ever be a star but on this team so void of capable LBs he should be playing more.  

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I disagree with you on that.  Smith is the right throw, but Hurts can't get the ball there.  But that's the right read.   "If he's even, he's leaving."    On the other side, Watkins is also open on a simple hook route, just needs to be thrown to the outside so the LB can't undercut it.

 

But, Hurts just doesn't have the arm to make these NFL throws.  He can put the ball down the field, but the windows aren't big enough for his arm to get the ball in there very often.   He can't 'pull the string'.  The Smith ball would be one that he at least would have the chance to put it up with arc and let Smith run under it.   But, he'd have to release it when Smith puts his arm up to have a chance.   

I am pretty confident that he doesn't.

I get it might technically be correct, but if you have Hurts you need to temper expectations on things like this. That would have to be a 50+ yard in air throw. If Hurts tried that it would look like all the plays from San Fran where Smith is going to have to stop completely and its going to look like he's fielding a punt. I think that would be more likely an intercepted pass than the throw to Ertz or Watkins. I get the pass was intercepted anyway but its because it was a bad throw and a tremendous play from the DB to know where the sideline was (must be nice). 

https://theeagleswire.usatoday.com/2021/10/10/eagles-jalen-hurts-randall-cunningham-franchise-rushing-tds-in-game/

This type of history isn't really what we are looking for out of our QB, is it?   Do we want to have to rely on his legs in the red zone, because that's the only way we can score? 

This isn't necessarily a 'bad' thing, but it's emblematic of the RZ issues as a whole.  Tight windows, quicker reads.  The other 2 TD rushing game was the finale last season against Washington.  He was dreadful throwing the ball in that game as well.  And in both those games those were the only TDs by the Eagles.  Same as for Randall.  And Randall's whole career, he only did that twice.  Hurts has only started 9 games, and has already done it twice.  I don't think that's a harbinger of good news moving forward.  

It's not all about arm strength...long list of QB's with HOF credentials and just OK arms...but I don't even think Hurts' arm qualifies as just OK.  

With that said, watching Mahomes square off against Allen...their arms are so effortless that it just shortens the field.  Down and distance don't really matter because they can put the ball on a line in the right spot 30 yards downfield just as easily as 3 yards in the flat.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I get it might technically be correct, but if you have Hurts you need to temper expectations on things like this. That would have to be a 50+ yard in air throw. If Hurts tried that it would look like all the plays from San Fran where Smith is going to have to stop completely and its going to look like he's fielding a punt. I think that would be more likely an intercepted pass than the throw to Ertz or Watkins. I get the pass was intercepted anyway but its because it was a bad throw and a tremendous play from the DB to know where the sideline was (must be nice). 

Well, I am of the mind that if you need to temper your expectations on something like that, then you need to reevaluate everything.  

 

Ultimately, I think what the point of all this is:  we have a QB that can't throw the ball down the field into any kind of coverage.  Watkins was alone on roughly half the field on his deep ball.  It should have been 6, but it was poorly located.  

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

It's not all about arm strength...long list of QB's with HOF credentials and just OK arms...but I don't even think Hurts' arm qualifies as just OK.  

With that said, watching Mahomes square off against Allen...their arms are so effortless that it just shortens the field.  Down and distance don't really matter because they can put the ball on a line in the right spot 30 yards downfield just as easily as 3 yards in the flat.

I think his arm could be OK, but he'd have to make up for the arm with other factors.  He's not.  And frankly, I don't think he can.  

6 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup I think Westbrook is giving hurts too much credit, he barely got the throw to Ertz, he didn't throw it to Smith because he doesn't have the arm to get it there.

Hurts lack of arm has really held this offense back 

Reagor Smith Watkins are all speedy guys and unless they are wide open hurts just doesn't have the arm to out throw tight coverage like in the above graphic.

 

I really shouldn't be but I'm shocked at the lengths a lot of you will go to absolve Sirianni of his terrible play calling.  Hurts can throw the ball all over the field.   We have seen it.  Throws down the field are the lowest percentage throws for any QB in this league.  We have seen him hit some and we have seen him miss some.  It's going to happen for any QB throwing down the field.  Especially for a young inexperienced QB who was not given the benefit a rightful amount of snaps in preseason to build an in game chemistry with these receivers in this offense. 

 

Sirianni calling an alarming amount of passing plays to be thrown around the LOS while simultaneously refusing to establish and use a running game in anyway was not helpful in the slightest to Hurts Sunday.  

 

We have 5 games now this season where we can see that first time play caller Nick Sirianni has no flow or feel with his play calling in games.  It is a major concern.

Even if you fully believe that Hurts is the reason for this wretched playcalling  and Sirianni can only call an offense with him where everything is thrown at the LOS then that still does nothing at all to explain the complete lack of a running game being called which would at the least be helpful to breakup the predictability of a bunch of passes to the LOS play after play after play after play.  

1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Bad coaching that's for sure.  We have had two TD passes called back for the WR stepping out of bounds.  That shouldn't have happened again, the WRs should have been coached on that.  We have had two TD passes called back for illegal picks, again that should not have happened a second time.  The WRs needed to be coached on that. 

Reminiscent of Miles running out of bounds twice yesterday on the final drive and not being told not to do it until the second time it happened. 

Really?  You need to tell your third-year RB who's been playing ball for half his life not to run OOB when you trying to kill the clock?  Sanders knew.  Sanders screwed up.

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Really?  You need to tell your third-year RB who's been playing ball for half his life not to run OOB when you trying to kill the clock?  Sanders knew.  Sanders screwed up.

Apparently, these guys need to be told everything constantly, and the player isn't responsible for it, only the coach. 

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Apparently, these guys need to be told everything constantly, and the player isn't responsible for it, only the coach. 

We should be impressed that the players don't lose their helmet and pads during the game.

4 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Really?  You need to tell your third-year RB who's been playing ball for half his life not to run OOB when you trying to kill the clock?  Sanders knew.  Sanders screwed up.

One might argue to blame the coaching staff for allowing Sanders to be in position to make the same mistake twice.  I'd probably have Gainwell in there for the rest of the carries as punishment.

7 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Really?  You need to tell your third-year RB who's been playing ball for half his life not to run OOB when you trying to kill the clock?  Sanders knew.  Sanders screwed up.

 

He should have been pulled and talked to after the first time he did it instead of how he was after the second time he did it.  That is up to the coaches to make the players accountable for their F ups.  When a team is as undisciplined and makes as many stupid mistakes as this team does then it's up to your coaching staff to make sure players are aware of what to do and what not to do in certain situations.  

 

Nick Sirianni said it himself, "The first thing about being smart is knowing what to do."  This team every week is showing in different simple situations every game that they do not know what they are doing and thus they are not a smart football team under Nick Sirianni who is not a smart coach.  

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

One might argue to blame the coaching staff for allowing Sanders to be in position to make the same mistake twice.  I'd probably have Gainwell in there for the rest of the carries as punishment.

The first one, at least he got 6 yards... the second one was just plain terrible.  Gotta pull a Demarco Murray and just baseball slide down.

1 hour ago, Parrot Head said:

Ok, so what do we do? 

I'm being told that we can't evaluate the coach because he's being held back by the QB. So, does this mean we have to wait until he gets his hand picked guy?

And then how much time does he get to let said hand picked guy develop? 

This is setting up for a looooong rebuild process if that's the case.

Flacco and Minshew can make NFL throws, so shouldn't that be a big improvement in a good scheme?

Minshew and Hurts’s both have bottom 1/3 arms, but Minshew wasn’t bad playing behind an awful O line, and he’s definitely better over the middle than Hurts.  
  Minshew beats the Eagles yesterday, then again, Joe Namath at 112 yrs old would have been better than Square Face.   Still can’t believe Rhule or Brady are all that smart if they agreed to give up those picks for Darnold.

 If Gase decides to climb a tower with a semi auto and a bag of groceries, Darnold is likely top 3 on his list, that should be enough to keep him off your team. 

Did anyone else notice Uncle Rico has very similar throwing mechanics to Philip Rivers? 

 

15 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I really shouldn't be but I'm shocked at the lengths a lot of you will go to absolve Sirianni of his terrible play calling.  Hurts can throw the ball all over the field.   We have seen it.  Throws down the field are the lowest percentage throws for any QB in this league.  We have seen him hit some and we have seen him miss some.  It's going to happen for any QB throwing down the field.  Especially for a young inexperienced QB who was not given the benefit a rightful amount of snaps in preseason to build an in game chemistry with these receivers in this offense. 

 

Sirianni calling an alarming amount of passing plays to be thrown around the LOS while simultaneously refusing to establish and use a running game in anyway was not helpful in the slightest to Hurts Sunday.  

 

We have 5 games now this season where we can see that first time play caller Nick Sirianni has no flow or feel with his play calling in games.  It is a major concern.

Even if you fully believe that Hurts is the reason for this wretched playcalling  and Sirianni can only call an offense with him where everything is thrown at the LOS then that still does nothing at all to explain the complete lack of a running game being called which would at the least be helpful to breakup the predictability of a bunch of passes to the LOS play after play after play after play.  

Sirrianni is partly to blame as are Howie and Lurie who have reportedly told him to pass more.

Having said that if Lurie and Howie want a passing team they should maybe get a qb who is a more efficient passer.

The play Westbrook highlighted where Smith was streaking down the field and instead hurts throws a bad pass to Ertz down sideline showedd two ways that hurts can't drive the ball.

1 in that instead of fitting the ball between the safety and LB to Ertz he puts way too much air under it leading to the pick.

And 2 he didn't throw it to Smith because he doesn't trust he can make that throw.

Even the pass on the off sides was a joke, dude had a freebie and he tosses it out of bounds.

Sure hurts can technically make all the throws but those throws aren't getting there in a hurry, he's not beating coverage with his arm.

Even the wide open Watkins pass, Watkins had to slow up for it, the throw got there but it took for ever to get there which allowed the DB to close and stopped Watkins from scoring.

I have yet to see hurts throw the ball all over the field and especially yet to see him do So with velocity or accuracy.

 

 

25 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I can't say I agree with this. Hurts does not have the arm to throw it to Smith. Ertz was the correct read, just a bad pass. 

This is a really ugly play.  QB has to read the defense and the matchups.  This ball is, in essence, 20 yards too late.  Hit Ertz as soon as he wheels past the LB in coverage; if Hurts hits Ertz at the 35-yard line he can run at least another 10-15 yards after catch.  The throw could go to DeVonta but it has to be a 55-60 yard throw.

Btw — no one even covers Miles Sanders on his release out of the backfield — that is a free 15-20 yards even throwing to the check down RB.

8 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He should have been pulled and talked to after that instead of like he was after the second time he did it.  That is up to the coaches to make the players accountable for their F ups.  When a team is as undisciplined and makes as many stupid mistakes as this team does then it's up to your coaching staff to make sure players are aware of what to do and what not to do in certain situations.  

 

Nick Sirianni said it himself, "The first thing about being smart is knowing what to do."  This team is not a smart football team under Nick Sirianni who is not a smart coach.  

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Even the wide open Watkins pass, Watkins had to slow up for it, the throw got there but it took for ever to get there which allowed the DB to close and stopped Watkins from scoring.

Not according to Sirianni

lol 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

coach's

Got it already.  Thanks, though.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Not according to Sirianni

lol 

The replay where Watkins stops and waits for the ball suggests otherwise.