March 30Mar 30

20 hours ago, lynched1 said:

"The war in Ukraine and the invasion of Putin showed the new German leadership that Donald Trump was absolutely right about Germany feeding the beast that ultimately turned on them," he added.

That’s the type of quote that shows the idiocy of Trump and his followers passing on Russian propaganda. On one hand they claim that poor Russia had no other choice but to fight back against NATO and western expansion / aggression, but on the other hand they were getting fed by the Germans and other European countries with billions and billions of euros / dollars to build up their economy & war machine. Which is it? That’s why Putin has no legitimate reason for his unprovoked attack on Ukraine. The Russians were making a fortune selling their gas and oil to the west. It was stated in the Treaty between NATO and Russia that they no longer viewed each other as enemies. Even mutual military exercises were talked about.

And then Putin came along and year after year he took more power and made Russia an authoritarian state. He became more and more power hungry and his ego of his past Soviet KGB times started to fantasize about recreating the Soviet Union & more. He wants to undo the loss to the west and will not stop until his goal is achieved, or just like Hitler, his country goes down. He doesn’t care about his own people - it’s all about him and his goals…

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March 30Mar 30

1 hour ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

That’s the type of quote that shows the idiocy of Trump and his followers passing on Russian propaganda. On one hand they claim that poor Russia had no other choice but to fight back against NATO and western expansion / aggression, but on the other hand they were getting fed by the Germans and other European countries with billions and billions of euros / dollars to build up their economy & war machine. Which is it? That’s why Putin has no legitimate reason for his unprovoked attack on Ukraine. The Russians were making a fortune selling their gas and oil to the west. It was stated in the Treaty between NATO and Russia that they no longer viewed each other as enemies. Even mutual military exercises were talked about.

And then Putin came along and year after year he took more power and made Russia an authoritarian state. He became more and more power hungry and his ego of his past Soviet KGB times started to fantasize about recreating the Soviet Union & more. He wants to undo the loss to the west and will not stop until his goal is achieved, or just like Hitler, his country goes down. He doesn’t care about his own people - it’s all about him and his goals…

Your tunnel vision exposes your ignorance

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March 30Mar 30

2 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

Your tunnel vision exposes your ignorance

Has nothing to do with tunnel vision. Where are your facts Igor? Are you also a part of the crowd that says Putin’s Russia aligns well with Trump’s America?

March 30Mar 30

3 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Has nothing to do with tunnel vision. Where are your facts Igor? Are you also a part of the crowd that says Putin’s Russia aligns well with Trump’s America?

I don't care for Russia or Ukraine. They could vaporize themselves for all I care. Total waste of resources.

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March 30Mar 30

1 minute ago, lynched1 said:

I don't care for Russia or Ukraine. They could vaporize themselves for all I care. Total waste of resources.

I don’t agree with your view about Ukraine, but have no problem with you saying you don’t care about either and see it as a waste of resources. That’s your personal belief and so be it. I do have an issue with the silly Russian propaganda you put in here. Saying the US should not financially and militarily support Ukraine is one thing (I personally think it would be catastrophic for US national security in the long run), but posting Kremlin talking points is another.

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March 30Mar 30

55 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

I don’t agree with your view about Ukraine, but have no problem with you saying you don’t care about either and see it as a waste of resources. That’s your personal belief and so be it. I do have an issue with the silly Russian propaganda you put in here. Saying the US should not financially and militarily support Ukraine is one thing (I personally think it would be catastrophic for US national security in the long run), but posting Kremlin talking points is another.

In order for me to be repeating "Russian propaganda," I'd have to be wasting my time listening to it.

Ukraine is, was, and will be a complete waste of resources. A year before Russia invaded the Ukranian government was globally criticized for its corruption.

March 30Mar 30

1 hour ago, lynched1 said:

In order for me to be repeating "Russian propaganda," I'd have to be wasting my time listening to it.

Ukraine is, was, and will be a complete waste of resources. A year before Russia invaded the Ukranian government was globally criticized for its corruption.

Still don’t get what you were trying to say with your quote then.🤷‍♂️ I’m sure you’ve heard plenty of Russian misinformation and propaganda by listening / watching certain news outlets. If you haven’t, then good for you.

Yep, Ukraine was and is know for corruption. Idk, but with recent events in the US and also Europe, we probably don’t need to talk about corruption in other countries. It’s all over and yes, some are more corrupt than others. But let’s not declare that there is no corruption problem in our countries either.

March 30Mar 30

9 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

I made no such claims about ours or other countries corruption. I was discussing Ukraine's importance or more accurately lack thereof.

We created this current mess Russia and Ukraine 30 years ago with our misguided "global policing" policies.

You'd think after the mess in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, even Iraq to a certain extent that we might get better at it.

March 30Mar 30

8 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

I made no such claims about ours or other countries corruption. I was discussing Ukraine's importance or more accurately lack thereof.

We created this current mess Russia and Ukraine 30 years ago with our misguided "global policing" policies.

You'd think after the mess in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, even Iraq to a certain extent that we might get better at it.

Agreed on Nam, Afghanistan (only on length and bad pullout) and for sure Iraq, which was done on lies.

Certainly don’t agree with your assessment that we created the mess with Russia and Ukraine 30 years ago. Putin’s imperialistic fantasies are based on losing the "Cold War”. All the nonsense of eastern expansion that threatened poor Russia is absolutely BS IMO. Like I’ve said previously, they got money galore from the west and one really has to ask why these eastern countries were and are scared of Russia. Putin was and is scared of democracy and not of NATO troops. He wants to rule the old Soviet way and can’t control and repress his people if they have any hope of a democratic way of life.

March 30Mar 30

18 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Agreed on Nam, Afghanistan (only on length and bad pullout) and for sure Iraq, which was done on lies.

Certainly don’t agree with your assessment that we created the mess with Russia and Ukraine 30 years ago. Putin’s imperialistic fantasies are based on losing the "Cold War”. All the nonsense of eastern expansion that threatened poor Russia is absolutely BS IMO. Like I’ve said previously, they got money galore from the west and one really has to ask why these eastern countries were and are scared of Russia. Putin was and is scared of democracy and not of NATO troops. He wants to rule the old Soviet way and can’t control and repress his people if they have any hope of a democratic way of life.

It doesn't matter what you or I believe about Russia's state of mind regarding NATO encroachment. We told them it would happen then do what we want.

From that you get compliance, compitulation, or resistance. What we have is resistance.

The current popular strategy is to dump money and munitions into Ukraine and claim "no direct involvement". Utter BS only to guarantee defense contracts and kickbacks.

Compliance through trade has not put an end to it. So you're left with the forced compitulation or peace treaty.

Keep in mind we're funding this while running a $36.5 Trillion dollar deficit with China warming up in the bullpen versus Taiwan.

March 30Mar 30

For pennies on the dollar sending old military equipment (which was being counted as military aid at full sticker price) to Ukraine we hollowed out Russia's military to where they have had to deploy NK troops and are sending T-62s into battles.

We're weakening the hell out of a geopolitical foe without any troops.

Ukraine with its massive grain production, rare earth material, and warm weather ports would be a powerful ally and economic partner.

But the fool isolationists are setting us up for another major war.

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March 30Mar 30

56 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

For pennies on the dollar sending old military equipment (which was being counted as military aid at full sticker price) to Ukraine we hollowed out Russia's military to where they have had to deploy NK troops and are sending T-62s into battles.

We're weakening the hell out of a geopolitical foe without any troops.

Ukraine with its massive grain production, rare earth material, and warm weather ports would be a powerful ally and economic partner.

But the fool isolationists are setting us up for another major war.

Russia has a history of deploying inferior tanks into combat. They marched across the continent and into Berlin with that strategy.

Weakening them..... There is nothing more dangerous than a cornered animal. The "no direct involvement" sctick doesn't fly. We have our own laws regarding the provision of aid and comfort. As I'm certain they have theirs.

"Would be a powerful ally and economic partner". Where the F have they been for 30 years?

We are already fighting our next major war. The geo political foe of the US has been biding it's time infiltrating our domestic and government systems while stealing our technologies. All while we allow them to purchase sensitive properties in the US and financing them via access to our markets.

March 30Mar 30

45 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

It doesn't matter what you or I believe about Russia's state of mind regarding NATO encroachment. We told them it would happen then do what we want.

From that you get compliance, compitulation, or resistance. What we have is resistance.

The current popular strategy is to dump money and munitions into Ukraine and claim "no direct involvement". Utter BS only to guarantee defense contracts and kickbacks.

Compliance through trade has not put an end to it. So you're left with the forced compitulation or peace treaty.

Keep in mind we're funding this while running a $36.5 Trillion dollar deficit with China warming up in the bullpen versus Taiwan.

Some valid thoughts especially with China in mind. Let’s assume you’re right and we give them a peace treaty to their liking and it holds for a bit. What’s the plan when Putin’s war machine finds another victim to invade in either the leftover part of Ukraine or the Baltics? And at the same time China decides that that’s the ideal time to go for Taiwan? I know that’s speculative, but quite a few intelligence experts who are also in government service of various countries are saying pretty much the same thing about further Russian aggression.

A couple of posters here have made good points that we are sending them lots of old military equipment and their soldiers are putting it to use in defending their country without foreign soldiers on the ground. Wouldn’t it be wise to keep this conflict in that region and not let it spread further west? History tends to repeat itself and giving in to Russian demands will only make them want more IMO.

March 30Mar 30

27 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Some valid thoughts especially with China in mind. Let’s assume you’re right and we give them a peace treaty to their liking and it holds for a bit. What’s the plan when Putin’s war machine finds another victim to invade in either the leftover part of Ukraine or the Baltics? And at the same time China decides that that’s the ideal time to go for Taiwan? I know that’s speculative, but quite a few intelligence experts who are also in government service of various countries are saying pretty much the same thing about further Russian aggression.

A couple of posters here have made good points that we are sending them lots of old military equipment and their soldiers are putting it to use in defending their country without foreign soldiers on the ground. Wouldn’t it be wise to keep this conflict in that region and not let it spread further west? History tends to repeat itself and giving in to Russian demands will only make them want more IMO.

"We" don't give them a peace treaty. We can certainly broker one but that's between the combatants.

On to the "keeping it in the region" argument. The fighting for now is in the region but the participants are global. Our proxy war strategies have never faired well. Ukraine doesn’t have the bodies and limit themselves to what bodies they'll use via the draft. To drag it out by merely funding an inferiorly numerated military force is a fools hope. Let's assume you're right. Russia while sitting on more nuclear weapons than the global police and their allies hold are beaten back within their border. Would they dare?

If dropped in Ukraine it's still regional right? How do we address another escalation? Should we send Ukraine some old obsolete nuclear weapons from our stock pile for "pennies on the dollar"? Do we cross our imaginary threshold and launch from here?

There is no setting up of a next major war. We are in the midst of it and our current "popular" strategy has repeatedly failed.

+1 A very well mannered disagreement on your part.

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March 30Mar 30

2 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

"We" don't give them a peace treaty. We can certainly broker one but that's between the combatants.

On to the "keeping it in the region" argument. The fighting for now is in the region but the participants are global. Our proxy war strategies have never faired well. Ukraine doesn’t have the bodies and limit themselves to what bodies they'll use via the draft. To drag it out by merely funding an inferiorly numerated military force is a fools hope. Let's assume you're right. Russia while sitting on more nuclear weapons than the global police and their allies hold aee beaten back within their border. Would they dare?

If dropped in Ukraine it's still regional right? How do we address another escalation? Should we send them some old obsolete nuclear weapons from our stock pile for "pennies on the dollar"? Do we cross our imaginary threshold and launch from here?

There is no setting up of a next major war. We are in the midst of it and our current "popular" strategy has repeatedly failed.

I think the strategy both sides used during the Cold War worked out well. There was the Cuba crisis, but for the most part it was a stalemate and both sides knew that attacking the other was a no win scenario. This was of course built on people in power that were sane and also had others around that made a difference in decision making. That’s what makes authoritarianism so dangerous on both sides of the ocean. One guy decides everything and only has people in his orbit that bow down to his authority.

In general, the world is really on the brink of screwing up the entire planet with all these war mongers on all sides. There is really no solution if, let’s say it’s Putin, a country goes down the path of using nukes to end the world. If a lunatic is allowed by his submissive followers to destroy the world, then we’re all f_cked.

Look, there is no easy strategy to this craziness, but the west and the rest of the free world is going to have to cross the rubicon at some point in the near future. Putin’s Russia will continue on their path. Right now they are losing lots of men and weapons. Surely the people are growing weary with all their casualties. Their economy is in shambles and if the free world stays allied and not divided, it will drain Russia dry. That’s how it worked after WWII and by showing combined strength, it should work again.

March 31Mar 31

4 hours ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

I think the strategy both sides used during the Cold War worked out well. There was the Cuba crisis, but for the most part it was a stalemate and both sides knew that attacking the other was a no win scenario. This was of course built on people in power that were sane and also had others around that made a difference in decision making. That’s what makes authoritarianism so dangerous on both sides of the ocean. One guy decides everything and only has people in his orbit that bow down to his authority.

In general, the world is really on the brink of screwing up the entire planet with all these war mongers on all sides. There is really no solution if, let’s say it’s Putin, a country goes down the path of using nukes to end the world. If a lunatic is allowed by his submissive followers to destroy the world, then we’re all f_cked.

Look, there is no easy strategy to this craziness, but the west and the rest of the free world is going to have to cross the rubicon at some point in the near future. Putin’s Russia will continue on their path. Right now they are losing lots of men and weapons. Surely the people are growing weary with all their casualties. Their economy is in shambles and if the free world stays allied and not divided, it will drain Russia dry. That’s how it worked after WWII and by showing combined strength, it should work again.

People look at Putin as if he is a head of state who does crime. He’s actually a criminal that does head of state. Organized crime bosses care mostly about their own butts.

Meet him with enough force and he’ll back down. To authoritarians, weakness is provocative.

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March 31Mar 31

23 hours ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Has nothing to do with tunnel vision. Where are your facts Igor? Are you also a part of the crowd that says Putin’s Russia aligns well with Trump’s America?

ummm, it's sloth, not igor.