6 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

 

I agree but at some point if Hurts isn't the one I believe we should at least give Minshew a chance, assuming these are our only two options again next season. I think it really comes down to how much time people are willing to give Hurts. One side is start Minshew now. The other side is we need to give Hurts another season. I'm willing to give Hurts more time but not a whole other season. If/When the Eagles decide Hurts is not the guy I think it makes sense to start Minshew because his style of play will more closely match what the next QB will look like. I just don't see the team building this team around a running QB.

I don’t know what the Eagles will do, but the truth is the Eagles have always used quarterbacks with mobility basically since Randall. The reports are that Hurts was a Lurie pick which is crazy considering how much he loves to throw. Ultimately I don’t really care personally who is the quarterback. All I care about is winning. The Eagles drafted Hurts though so they are the ones who set all this in motion. 

On 12/16/2021 at 3:39 PM, Iggles_Phan said:

Meh... Look what happens to his QBR as the number of attempts increase...   Interestingly, the QBR is based on RUNNING as well as passing.

Meanwhile... his passer rating, which ignores rushing stats... it seems to be unaffected by the number of attempts.  What do you make of that?

 

I have really come around to the QBR metric as an overall measure of performance this year. I have been harsh on Hurts but this metric is more favourable to Hurts' relative performance than passer rating for obvious reasons and just matches a lot closer to what my eyes are telling me i.e. Hurt hasn't been in worst 8 QBs in the NFL (which he is by passer rating) but somewhere in that 3rd quarter i.e. 16 - 24 (which he is by QBR).

This just further solidifies it - we would all agree that our eyes see that he has been less efficient the more he has passed this year, and that stat perfectly aligns to it. Part of the issue with passer rating I think here is and you can see this from the 48 passing attempts game (Chiefs) is it doesn't discount garbage time stats. His QBR for that game is below 50 because he wasn't good when the game mattered but put up a bunch of garbage time stats which inflated the passer rating to above 100 

11 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

They don't understand that his athleticism and running ability give him an upside that Minshew doesn't have. Sadly some of them actively want him to fail. They won't admit it, but it's clear from their posts that they do.

This should be obvious to anyone. Hurts only needs to be average passing QB to be easily be an above average QB. Whilst there is risk if he ever gets there, that isn't a particularly high threshold as a passer. This is why you play him and give him the chance to see if he gets there. What he offers as a runner from the QB position is very rare.

5 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

This should be obvious to anyone. Hurts only needs to be average passing QB to be easily be an above average QB. Whilst there is risk if he ever gets there, that isn't a particularly high threshold as a passer. This is why you play him and give him the chance to see if he gets there. What he offers as a runner from the QB position is very rare.

I wouldn't say it's rare, plenty of QBs coming from college can run like that they just don't stay at QB or change positions for draft purposes because they won't make it otherwise.

The rare part would be a guy like Hurts being able to even be a QB with that running ability and can't pass for sheet. 

15 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

This entire discussion is not about Hurts vs. Minshew.  It's about whether or not the Eagles have a legitimate starting QB (or the potential for one) on the roster.   They do not.  They have two backup QBs on the roster.   One is better at running, the other is better at passing.  Neither is ultimately the answer at QB for the long term.

 

14 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Frankly that’s up to the Eagles to decide. In the end the quarterback will be Hurts or someone not on the roster, because the truth is Minshew will not take the Eagles anywhere. 

You see this is my point. It shouldn't be about Hurts v Minshew, yet there are pages on this thread with people basically demanding that Minshew should start and that he needs to be given a chance. A certain someone creates poll after poll suggesting that Hurts should be benched. 

People pigeon hole Hurts as a running QB and are convinced that we can't win with such a QB. They made up their mind in week 2 that Hurts cannot be a legitimate starting QB going forward.

What EazyEaglez, I and some others are saying is that Hurts does have an upside and has shown some good things and it is possible that he could develop in the way that Josh Allen did and become the guy going forwards. We are not saying that he definitely or even probably will.

But the main point is that there is no benefit to starting Minshew if Hurts is healthy. Until we are absolutely sure on Hurts, we may as well let him play until we have a legitimate alternative. The draft next year looks really poor and there are no realistic trade options. (Wilson is going nowhere, Rodgers won't come here, we should want no part of Watson as the face of the franchise and they would all cost too much in terms of picks/cap for us to put a team around him).

It would just be good  if people actually support our QB1, even if they don't believe he will be the guy. At the moment it feels that people actively want him to fail and jump on every bad game and even pass to support their narrative. 

23 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

What EazyEaglez, I and some others are saying is that Hurts does have an upside and has shown some good things and it is possible that he could develop in the way that Josh Allen did and become the guy going forwards. We are not saying that he definitely or even probably will.

. nope.

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

You see this is my point. It shouldn't be about Hurts v Minshew, yet there are pages on this thread with people basically demanding that Minshew should start and that he needs to be given a chance. A certain someone creates poll after poll suggesting that Hurts should be benched. 

People pigeon hole Hurts as a running QB and are convinced that we can't win with such a QB. They made up their mind in week 2 that Hurts cannot be a legitimate starting QB going forward.

What EazyEaglez, I and some others are saying is that Hurts does have an upside and has shown some good things and it is possible that he could develop in the way that Josh Allen did and become the guy going forwards. We are not saying that he definitely or even probably will.

But the main point is that there is no benefit to starting Minshew if Hurts is healthy. Until we are absolutely sure on Hurts, we may as well let him play until we have a legitimate alternative. The draft next year looks really poor and there are no realistic trade options. (Wilson is going nowhere, Rodgers won't come here, we should want no part of Watson as the face of the franchise and they would all cost too much in terms of picks/cap for us to put a team around him).

It would just be good  if people actually support our QB1, even if they don't believe he will be the guy. At the moment it feels that people actively want him to fail and jump on every bad game and even pass to support their narrative. 

Josh Allen completed less than 60% of his passes in his first two seasons, but don’t tell the beanbaggers that. Lamar Jackson was allowed to sit for a full season also. These guys were both higher level players than Hurts coming out. The Eagles had an opportunity to sit and develop their young quarterback, but that didn’t play out, because Wentz wanted out so now he’s learning on the fly. He’s a raw unfinished product learning on the job with rookie coaches. Right now Hurts can not drop back and throw the ball 40 times in a game (of course most of the time a quarterback has to thro that much it’s probably a loss anyway) and expect to win it. He’s a young quarterback who is doing on the job learning. The Eagles know and understand this even if the fan base doesn’t. Ultimately I don’t know if Hurts will be the guy, but I don’t think the Eagles are ready to say he isn’t the guy yet. 

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

 Ultimately I don’t know if Hurts will be the guy, but I don’t think the Eagles are ready to say he isn’t the guy yet. 

Doing so would require Howie (Lowie) to admit they effed up. JJaw & Reagor are clearly eff ups. Has Howie (Lowie) admitted to that yet? No. Jalen has at least 2 more years to most likely be sub-par/mediocre. Let's hope he isn't but an unbiased assessment to date doesn't bode well. I'm expecting Andy Dalton caliber but with fewer passing yards more rushing yards.

1 minute ago, eglz1 said:

Doing so would require Howie (Lowie) to admit they effed up. JJaw & Reagor are clearly eff ups. Has Howie (Lowie) admitted to that yet? No. Jalen has at least 2 more years to most likely be sub-par/mediocre. Let's hope he isn't but an unbiased assessment to date doesn't bode well. I'm expecting Andy Dalton caliber but with fewer passing yards more rushing yards.

I don’t really care what Hurts numbers look like. I don’t get all happy if the quarterback is completing 60% of his passes, but the team is 1-12. 

3 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

Doing so would require Howie (Lowie) to admit they effed up. JJaw & Reagor are clearly eff ups. Has Howie (Lowie) admitted to that yet? No. Jalen has at least 2 more years to most likely be sub-par/mediocre. Let's hope he isn't but an unbiased assessment to date doesn't bode well. I'm expecting Andy Dalton caliber but with fewer passing yards more rushing yards.

"Prime" Andy Dalton is serviceable.  I can live with a mid range QB so long as we've improved as a team in other areas.

5 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t really care what Hurts numbers look like. I don’t get all happy if the quarterback is completing 60% of his passes, but the team is 1-12. 

Then that QB better have an all-decade defense and excellent run game. A 21st Century NFL team is intended to be pass centric, or at least have a competent passing game. The rules will change to ensure that.

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

"Prime" Andy Dalton is serviceable.  I can live with a mid range QB so long as we've improved as a team in other areas.

How did Andy do post season? Gadgety teams can do well during the regular season, especially if they're in a weak division.

1 minute ago, eglz1 said:

Then that QB better have an all-decade defense and excellent run game. A 21st Century NFL team is intended to be pass centric, or at least have a competent passing game. The rules will change as necessary to encourage that.

But we won our lone SB during a season in which we ran quite a bit, and had a solid defense.  I don't think we need an all decade defense (just a competent/good one), but the run game I agree with

2 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

How did Andy do post season? Gadgety teams can do well during the regular season, especially if they're in a weak division.

Honestly, I think Cincy suffered a lot from poor coaching.

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

But we won our lone SB during a season in which we ran quite a bit, and had a solid defense.  I don't think we need an all decade defense (just a competent/good one), but the run game I agree with

Honestly, I think Cincy suffered a lot from poor coaching.

Quite possible, I know nothing of the Dalton era Bengals.

1 minute ago, eglz1 said:

Quite possible, I know nothing of the Dalton era Bengals.

Marvin Lewis was just a coach that could never get them over the hump. There's no way you don't win a single playoff game with the talent they had while he was there.

2 hours ago, MF POON said:

Marvin Lewis was just a coach that could never get them over the hump. There's no way you don't win a single playoff game with the talent they had while he was there.

That was a deep squad. They held on to Lewis way too long.

2 hours ago, eglz1 said:

Then that QB better have an all-decade defense and excellent run game. A 21st Century NFL team is intended to be pass centric, or at least have a competent passing game. The rules will change to ensure that.

The Pats young quarterback Mac Jones hasn’t been a world beater quarterback. He’s been solid, but not really great, but his team is winning the division. Truth of the matter is there aren’t many special quarterbacks who will carry a team in the league really. Teams this year are showing that balance helps teams win football games. We have already seen the Pats and the Colts win games this year with little to no contributions from their quarterbacks. Having a good team is better than just having an elite quarterback with a bad football team. Watson is clearly and elite quarterback and the last time he had played his team won 4 games, because they’re really bad. I’ll take a great roster with an average quarterback over and elite quarterback getting his numbers and losing games.

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

The Pats young quarterback Mac Jones hasn’t been a world beater quarterback. He’s been solid, but not really great, but his team is winning the division. Truth of the matter is there aren’t many special quarterbacks who will carry a team in the league really. Teams this year are showing that balance helps teams win football games. We have already seen the Pats and the Colts win games this year with little to no contributions from their quarterbacks. Having a good team is better than just having an elite quarterback with a bad football team. Watson is clearly and elite quarterback and the last time he had later his team won 4 games, because they’re really bad. I’ll take a great roster with an average quarterback over and elite quarterback getting his numbers and losing games.

No arguing those points.