1 minute ago, SB52 said:

It would be very interesting to watch Minshew play against the Giants. We probably aren’t going to get to see it, though.

I'm more interested to see if Hurts has a better game this time and how he performs against WFT. If Hurts struggles against any of those teams I would like to see how Minshew plays against WFT in the second game.

4 hours ago, Boogyman said:

I watched the whole game. Did you? Or are you gonna point out a few throws that were not perfectly placed? Because he only had a few incompletions the entire game, and we scored on our first seven drives.

To be honest I don't even think this is about arm strength or accuracy. Minshew surveyed the field and got the ball out on time. Hurts always looks confused…

Here is my original comment that caused all of this panty bunching:

”Minshew looked great in the first half, then showed his limitations in the second half.”

This was the entire post. I literally commented on the first half and said nothing, at all, about Hurts.

53 minutes ago, SB52 said:

Here is my original comment that caused all of this panty bunching:

”Minshew looked great in the first half, then showed his limitations in the second half.”

This was the entire post. I literally commented on the first half and said nothing, at all, about Hurts.

He hardly showed anything in the second half though. I think he threw like 10 passes at the most.

58 minutes ago, EagleMatt said:

What are their W/L records?

Saw a stat during the game minshew was 7-13 as starter.

Buddy, im all for playing the best man. Just seems like many are sipping the I still use the EMB's #1 Cliche after a win against a horrible secondary.

I aint against Minshew getting the nod for the next game. I like Hurts. But i also like to roll with the "hot hand".

I guess 8 and 13 now. I don't see a lot of relevance in win loss records for a qb that played for that Jacksonville team. 

I just don't think Hurts is or is going to be any good. It probably sways my opinion on this matter but since it's just a thread on a forum I can be as impartial as I want. 

1 hour ago, EagleMatt said:

many are sipping the I still use the EMB's #1 Cliche ...

3 hours ago, Thing3 said:

Beating the Jets hardly proves Minshew has the hot hand or is the better QB. We did draft Hurts and I assume the idea was to develop him. Minshew was brought in as a backup to Hurts. The fact is very few predicted we would be in the playoff hunt this season and the fact that we are is in large part due to Hurts and has nothing to do Minshew, other than he didn't blow a layup against the Jets. Lastly, this season was never about wins and losses. It was always about assessing and developing young players and coaches.

By far the biggest reason we are in the hunt for a playoff spot (and have an excellent chance at getting there) is our very very soft schedule. We haven't beaten a single good team. The second reason would be the running game led by the OL play. Hurts does play a part here but I wouldn't say his overall play as a QB has been a large part driving our success. To use your phrase Minshew didn't "blow a layup" but Hurts certainly did the week before against the Giants.

Now that doesn't mean I want Minshew to start. Can't read too much into a single game. This year has always been about finding out if Hurts can be the long-term answer - he certainly hasn't been convincing on that front to date but let the full season play out. Personally, I don't think our long-term answer at QB is on the roster. 

2 hours ago, EagleMatt said:

What are their W/L records?

Saw a stat during the game minshew was 7-13 as starter.

Minshew's career stats:

 

 

Just for comparison's sake, here's Hurts' stats:

 

 

 

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Truth is Mishew is what he is. He will never be better at his accuracy or anything of that nature. Hurts could potentially improve. Heck he’s improved from the player he was last year till now. So if Hurts continues to develop as a passer he’s the better player because he could win with his arm and legs.

I agree that if Hurts improves, he has more potential.

But I don't necessarily see this improvement as a passer that you do, or at least nothing of note to give me confidence that he will develop as a passer. He struggles with the same things he struggled with last year and in college - reading the defence pre-snap, working through reads, repetitive accuracy, ball placement, decision making. Its true those are things that a lot of young QBs typically also struggle with so its not out of the question he does eventually develop. What is concerning to me is that 16 games into his career I am not really sure if those things have been developing and unlike a lot of other QBs coming into NFL, Hurts played a ton in college and got top level coaching (Kiffin, Daboll, Sarkisian, Riley) - he should be further along. Plus he doesn't have a big arm which means even if he improves, the relative importance of those little things matters more and his overall passing upside isn't that of say a Josh Allen, or a Lamar Jackson.

27 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

By far the biggest reason we are in the hunt for a playoff spot (and have an excellent chance at getting there) is our very very soft schedule. We haven't beaten a single good team. The second reason would be the running game led by the OL play. Hurts does play a part here but I wouldn't say his overall play as a QB has been a large part driving our success. To use your phrase Minshew didn't "blow a layup" but Hurts certainly did the week before against the Giants.

Now that doesn't mean I want Minshew to start. Can't read too much into a single game. This year has always been about finding out if Hurts can be the long-term answer - he certainly hasn't been convincing on that front to date but let the full season play out. Personally, I don't think our long-term answer at QB is on the roster. 

I can't disagree with anything here. All I'm really saying is that we shouldn't make knee-jerk reactions. I think we need to see more of Hurts before we make a move that essentially writes him off. When that time comes I'll feel comfortable moving forward with Minshew until we decide on who the future QB of the franchise is going to be. I'm actually hoping we have another full season before we have to commit long term to a QB.

2 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

I can't disagree with anything here. All I'm really saying is that we shouldn't make knee-jerk reactions. I think we need to see more of Hurts before we make a move that essentially writes him off. When that time comes I'll feel comfortable moving forward with Minshew until we decide on who the future QB of the franchise is going to be. I'm actually hoping we have another full season before we have to commit long term to a QB.

I agree with this - we need to see more of Hurts the rest of the way. I am not yet on board with another season of him as our QB1 - will depend on how he finishes the season i.e. need to see noticeable improvement. If its more of the same, I'd rather move on.

24 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

I agree that if Hurts improves, he has more potential.

But I don't necessarily see this improvement as a passer that you do, or at least nothing of note to give me confidence that he will develop as a passer. He struggles with the same things he struggled with last year and in college - reading the defence pre-snap, working through reads, repetitive accuracy, ball placement, decision making. Its true those are things that a lot of young QBs typically also struggle with so its not out of the question he does eventually develop. What is concerning to me is that 16 games into his career I am not really sure if those things have been developing and unlike a lot of other QBs coming into NFL, Hurts played a ton in college and got top level coaching (Kiffin, Daboll, Sarkisian, Riley) - he should be further along. Plus he doesn't have a big arm which means even if he improves, the relative importance of those little things matters more and his overall passing upside isn't that of say a Josh Allen, or a Lamar Jackson.

I respect your stance, but much can also be said about Minshew just from a different perspective. He doesn’t have a big arm. He’s accurate, but a lot of his stats do not lead to winning games. It reminds me of Sam Bradford. Sleeves could go out there and complete 80% of his passes for nearly 300 yards and his team loses by 30. All in all potential wise Hurts has the bigger upside, but I if it were my choice I’d rather the team either draft another quarterback or ride it out with these two. Heck they could draft another guy, groom him, and still ride it out with Minshew and Hurts. One thing I noticed in the game was when Herbig had that bad snap the first guy on the sidelines to console him was Hurts. Those are some leadership intangibles that frankly we don’t always see. Ultimately for me winning is what matters most though. 

24 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

I can't disagree with anything here. All I'm really saying is that we shouldn't make knee-jerk reactions. I think we need to see more of Hurts before we make a move that essentially writes him off. When that time comes I'll feel comfortable moving forward with Minshew until we decide on who the future QB of the franchise is going to be. I'm actually hoping we have another full season before we have to commit long term to a QB.

16 games(including the 4 last year) with the easiest schedule in the NFL this year isn't enough? Hardly a knee jerk reaction to poor QB play. Hurts looks the same as last year, I see zero progress. Shew had 3 whole days with the 1's and he did as good or better. If I had to pick a BU it's shew all the way. I bet he was thrilled with our O line compared to the crap he played behind in Jax. As far as I'm concerned, Hurts and Reagor can be traded tomorrow

On 12/5/2021 at 5:45 PM, Infam said:

He had a very solid game especially in the first half against a really bad team that was not prepared at all.

Very glad we have a good backup.

Can’t believe how ill prepared the Jets really were. I mean how could they not for a moment think Mishew could possibly play. That’s just embarrassing on their part. 

52 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I respect your stance, but much can also be said about Minshew just from a different perspective. He doesn’t have a big arm. He’s accurate, but a lot of his stats do not lead to winning games. It reminds me of Sam Bradford. Sleeves could go out there and complete 80% of his passes for nearly 300 yards and his team loses by 30. All in all potential wise Hurts has the bigger upside, but I if it were my choice I’d rather the team either draft another quarterback or ride it out with these two. Heck they could draft another guy, groom him, and still ride it out with Minshew and Hurts. One thing I noticed in the game was when Herbig had that bad snap the first guy on the sidelines to console him was Hurts. Those are some leadership intangibles that frankly we don’t always see. Ultimately for me winning is what matters most though. 

My comment and evaluation of Hurts was independent of any statement on Minshew.

I lean the same way as you - I dont think the answer at QB is on the roster right now. If Hurts is healthy, he should play so we can get complete that evaluation. Regardless of who plays QB, I think we probably do make the playoffs which is more of a statement on our schedule and OL rather than our QB position. 

1 hour ago, kiwieagle said:

My comment and evaluation of Hurts was independent of any statement on Minshew.

I lean the same way as you - I dont think the answer at QB is on the roster right now. If Hurts is healthy, he should play so we can get complete that evaluation. Regardless of who plays QB, I think we probably do make the playoffs which is more of a statement on our schedule and OL rather than our QB position. 

I don’t know how more favorable (opponents wise) our schedule is this season compared to last season. This year we played the SB champs and the runner ups. We played the Saints and the 49ers last year too. Bottom line is a lot of the same parts played in both seasons. At a time there was a lot of flux in the offense line last year, but they have had their share of flux this year too. It’s easy to simply dismiss the quarterback play, but the worst team in the division last year is now in a realistic hunt for a playoff spot. You may not like how the quarterback has been effective, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t effective, and if everyone is so bent on benching the guy for his failures in the Giants game then you have to acknowledge his contributions to their wins as well. 

1 hour ago, kiwieagle said:

My comment and evaluation of Hurts was independent of any statement on Minshew.

I lean the same way as you - I dont think the answer at QB is on the roster right now. If Hurts is healthy, he should play so we can get complete that evaluation. Regardless of who plays QB, I think we probably do make the playoffs which is more of a statement on our schedule and OL rather than our QB position. 

I wish I was as optimistic as you that we make the playoffs but if we do it's only because the NFL has watered down what it means to make the playoffs to the points it's as much as an accomplishment as qualifying for the grand prize drawing in the publishers clearinghouse sweepstakes.

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t know how more favorable (opponents wise) our schedule is this season compared to last season. This year we played the SB champs and the runner ups. We played the Saints and the 49ers last year too. Bottom line is a lot of the same parts played in both seasons. At a time there was a lot of flux in the offense line last year, but they have had their share of flux this year too. It’s easy to simply dismiss the quarterback play, but the worst team in the division last year is now in a realistic hunt for a playoff spot. You may not like how the quarterback has been effective, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t effective, and if everyone is so bent on benching the guy for his failures in the Giants game then you have to acknowledge his contributions to their wins as well. 

I am not going to argue that QB play last year wasn't ineffective because it most definitely was. But there is a difference between the years in terms of both quality of our opponents and talent on our team.

Ignoring QB play, the two other biggest issues on offence last year were lack of OL depth and WRs. Yes, we have had some shuffling this year but nowhere near the level of last year and the guys who have played this year due to injuries like Dickerson, Driscoll, Herbig have played miles and miles better because they are more talented and/or more experienced now than the crap we were rolling out last year like Pryor, Brown, Opeta. Not to mention, Peters was a disaster at LT and just someone who shouldn't have been brought back. Our WRs still aren't good as group but Smith alone makes it better than who we were playing last year (outside of that very brief and weird 4-game stretch from Fulgham).

On schedule, its less about the number of top-end teams played and more about the number of bad teams we get to play this year. The AFC games are probably a push between the years but our schedule has been littered with winnable games. NFC South outside of Buccs is terrible this year and our last place schedule netted us Lions and Jets and 49ers plus the weak NFC East. Last year we also had a weak NFC East but then played NFC West which was all good teams except 49ers, and had a first place schedule which got us games against Packers, Saints. 

I also don't want to bench Hurts for the Giants game and have repeatedly said his presence helps the running game and not just the QB runs. I want him to play the rest of the way so we find as much as possible about him this year. All I am saying is to date, there is very little in his play that would convince me that he can develop as a passer but the season is not over. He still has games to convince the Eagles otherwise. 

1 hour ago, Thing3 said:

I wish I was as optimistic as you that we make the playoffs but if we do it's only because the NFL has watered down what it means to make the playoffs to the points it's as much as an accomplishment as qualifying for the grand prize drawing in the publishers clearinghouse sweepstakes.

I agree with that - the 7th spot guarantees there will be at least one-two bad team in the playoffs. NFC just doesn't have enough good teams. If either us or WAS sweeps the other, they are most likely in. I don't think either of us is a good team but neither are the Vikings, any of three NFC teams. Hell even the 49ers arent that good and they are probably the best of the bad bunch and likely to get the 6th seed. 

2 hours ago, EagleMatt said:

He is a mythical creature of both god and animal. 

9 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Can’t believe how ill prepared the Jets really were. I mean how could they not for a moment think Mishew could possibly play. That’s just embarrassing on their part. 

I find that incredible as well. There was talk midweek that Hurts would not be able to play. Did the Jets just ignore that?

 

7 hours ago, Thing3 said:

I wish I was as optimistic as you that we make the playoffs but if we do it's only because the NFL has watered down what it means to make the playoffs to the points it's as much as an accomplishment as qualifying for the grand prize drawing in the publishers clearinghouse sweepstakes.

 

Maybe the NFL is going down the NHL NBA road where half the league qualifies for the playoffs. More games = more $$$$?

16 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Newton shouldn't be used as a measuring stick.    Hurts is a backup QB, no more, no less.   I've seen enough to see his ceiling isn't high enough.  Part of that is likely my pre-draft bias on him... I didn't think he was any better than a backup before he was drafted and nothing that's happened since then has changed my view of him.

Why shouldn't Newton be used as a measuring stick?  They're similar QBs on the field (total opposites in regards to intangibles, though).  I'm saying let's see if Hurts can be a better version of Newton.  Because if he can't even reach Newton's level, then case closed.  I'd want him to reach Newton's level and surpass it by a good amount.

What we don't really know is what Hurts' weaknesses are.  Is it mental processing?  Can he read and diagnose what the defense is doing in real time?  Is he too "nervous" standing in the pocket and bails too soon because he just doesn't trust the protection?  Does he not trust himself in what he's seeing (confidence issue)?  

It could be a lot of things and pending what they are, possibly correctable (and possibly NOT correctable).  I don't think arm strength is an issue but I do find it odd that most of his deeper passes are typically underthrown rather than overthrown.

20 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

 

Maybe the NFL is going down the NHL NBA road where half the league qualifies for the playoffs. More games = more $$$$?

I assume it's that and it means more meaningful games later in the season which translates to higher attendance and higher TV ratings. It's keeping us talking about playoffs.

5 hours ago, Thing3 said:

I assume it's that and it means more meaningful games later in the season which translates to higher attendance and higher TV ratings. It's keeping us talking about playoffs.

True. It used to be extraordinary for a .500 team to be thinking playoffs. Today, not so much.