5 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

 Even Mosher and Caplan finally admitted on their podcast what Jason Avant has been telling them since game 3, it’s not Hurts accuracy or arm strength that concerns him, it’s the fact he misses open pass catchers every game and a significant amount of them.  
 Whether it’s because he’s short, leaves clean pockets, or is afraid to make some throws, until Hurts fixes that issue with the QB coach he’s going to have a difficult time being a successful QB.   
 
 
 

Avant is obviously racist like BWest and Shady. 

#swagmatters

#intangiblesmatter

 

9 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Minshew had wide open guys to throw to all day and his passes looked soft and were often underthrown. He is a baller and did well, but he has limited upside. As I've said before do you really think 32 teams scouts have all just missed how good he is?

I think the point here is that he saw the wide open receivers and made the throws. That's something that Hurts has struggled with all year. 

11 hours ago, Green_Guinness said:

Avant is obviously racist like BWest and Shady. 

#swagmatters

#intangiblesmatter

 

Am not

On 12/16/2021 at 3:22 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think the point here is that he saw the wide open receivers and made the throws. That's something that Hurts has struggled with all year. 

I don’t believe it’s a fair statement the Hurts has struggled with hitting open receivers. A better comment would be he’s been inconsistent. 

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t believe it’s a fair statement the Hurts has struggled with hitting open receivers. A better comment would be he’s been inconsistent. 

He is completing 46% of his passes more than 3 yards down the field.  He is struggling with passing across the board.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

He is completing 46% of his passes more than 3 yards down the field.  He is struggling with passing across the board.

If he puts the ball literally on the hands of his receivers, but the receiver doesn’t make the catch of steps out of bounds before he makes that catch it counts against him. No I know if that stuff happened to your boy Wentz you would cry foul ( you have for years and years about it) but you hate Hurts so that doesn’t matter now I guess. 

9 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t believe it’s a fair statement the Hurts has struggled with hitting open receivers. A better comment would be he’s been inconsistent. 

Again, It's not so much "hitting" open receivers, it's not seeing or choosing to not throw to them that has some people concerned. If you're progression takes your eyes to an open WR, there is no reason to continue your progression to the next guy. If you are holding the ball and/or extending a play, why aren't you seeing the wide open target? It's an area Hurts needs to get better at. This team sat Wentz last year in large part for this reason. 

7 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Again, It's not so much "hitting" open receivers, it's not seeing or choosing to not throw to them that has some people concerned. If you're progression takes your eyes to an open WR, there is no reason to continue your progression to the next guy. If you are holding the ball and/or extending a play, why aren't you seeing the wide open target? It's an area Hurts needs to get better at. This team sat Wentz last year in large part for this reason. 

So in other words he’s inconsistent. With that being the case the Eagles sat Wentz because (number one) the team wasn’t winning and (2) they drafted Hurts and basically boxed themselves into a corner. Might as well see what the kid can do with the season being basically over and all. 

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

If he puts the ball literally on the hands of his receivers, but the receiver doesn’t make the catch of steps out of bounds before he makes that catch it counts against him. No I know if that stuff happened to your boy Wentz you would cry foul ( you have for years and years about it) but you hate Hurts so that doesn’t matter now I guess. 

There is no shortage of fans assigning blame to Reagor for Reagor's mistakes / missed opportunities. If you look at the video of many of those plays, you will probably see another receiver much more "open" on the same play. Take the giants game for example, Reagor failed to catch 2 passes on the final drive where the coverage was right there with him. He should have made those catches. On those same two plays, there was a better option to throw to. So if we are going to sit here and play the "blame game," I'm going to blame Reagor for one of those failed catches, credit the defense for the other, and blame Hurts as well for missing two better reads on those two plays. 

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

There is no shortage of fans assigning blame to Reagor for Reagor's mistakes / missed opportunities. If you look at the video of many of those plays, you will probably see another receiver much more "open" on the same play. Take the giants game for example, Reagor failed to catch 2 passes on the final drive where the coverage was right there with him. He should have made those catches. On those same two plays, there was a better option to throw to. So if we are going to sit here and play the "blame game," I'm going to blame Reagor for one of those failed catches, credit the defense for the other, and blame Hurts as well for missing two better reads on those two plays. 

Reagor has started for two season now, and with three different quarterbacks with basically the same results. If you want to play the "blame game” then let’s give Hurts two starting seasons. If he’s back next year playing inconsistent football and if it’s costing the Eagles wins then he should be benched. 

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

That’s not the stat he produced though. He’s talking about completions percentages for deep passes. Drops are a factor in that. I certainly agree with the fact Hurts needs to be better at presnap reads, patience in the pocket, allowing players to develop, and his overall accuracy. I get it. Hurst isn’t a finished product. No one is arguing that he’s fine the way he is. 

I realize that there are impatient fans that rush to conclude doom and gloom for the future. They use general stats to hammer points whether completely relevant or not. I see Hurts as a player showing overall improvement from last season to this season. We have 4 games left on this season and I'm really hoping to see him have a solid final month and hopefully get his first taste of playoff experience. I'm confident that no matter what happens he will put in a ton of work in the offseason to get better. Growing and learning together with this young group of receivers could help everybody take a bigger jump next year. 

There always seems to be fans that have doubts or no confidence in a certain player. You will never "win" any arguments with them. Their mind is made up. 

7 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Reagor has started for two season now, and with three different quarterbacks with basically the same results. If you want to play the "blame game” then let’s give Hurts two starting seasons. If he’s back next year playing inconsistent football and if it’s costing the Eagles wins then he should be benched. 

The "blame game" isn't my niche. I was making a point, not pointing fingers. Football is a team sport.

56 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t believe it’s a fair statement the Hurts has struggled with hitting open receivers. A better comment would be he’s been inconsistent. 

Yeah OK inconsistent is fine. I don't think he sees the field very well. I think he locks on to his first target and I don't think he does enough over the left side and over the middle. 

12 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah OK inconsistent is fine. I don't think he sees the field very well. I think he locks on to his first target and I don't think he does enough over the left side and over the middle. 

To be fair, this is a common issue with young QBs. So what you hope to see is improvement over time in that area.

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

To be fair, this is a common issue with young QBs. So what you hope to see is improvement over time in that area.

But he rolls out right like most of the time. I don't think he's going to change that. He does that because that's what feels most natural to him. 

9 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But he rolls out right like most of the time. I don't think he's going to change that. He does that because that's what feels most natural to him. 

He does what he does because the offensive philosophy is to play to the players' strengths. That does not mean coaches won't ever try to make the player grow and get better. It doesn't mean the player won't work to add elements to his game. 

Were you around when Cunningham was a rookie? I mean, it's pretty common for mobile QBs to use running as a crutch early while they learn to be better QBs, learn to read defenses, see the field and get timing right. If you saw Cunningham play as a rookie, you would have thought that was a wasted 2nd rd. pick for sure. Then Buddy Ryan came in the next year and devised the gimmick "3rd and long QB." It (his running ability) was an element defenses weren't really used to accounting for and so there was some limited success there. Jaws got hurt late and RC took over as the starter, but as a passer things didn't look too hopeful. Then Doug Scovil, our QB coach, really turned Cunningham into a competent passer in a couple seasons until he passed away in 1989. 

My point is, the player needs coaching, he needs experience and he needs time to improve as a passer. This is normal for all QBs. If the QB demonstrates signs of growth, more will be added to the table in the game plan as time goes by. 

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Reagor has started for two season now, and with three different quarterbacks with basically the same results. If you want to play the "blame game” then let’s give Hurts two starting seasons. If he’s back next year playing inconsistent football and if it’s costing the Eagles wins then he should be benched. 

 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

I realize that there are impatient fans that rush to conclude doom and gloom for the future. They use general stats to hammer points whether completely relevant or not. I see Hurts as a player showing overall improvement from last season to this season. We have 4 games left on this season and I'm really hoping to see him have a solid final month and hopefully get his first taste of playoff experience. I'm confident that no matter what happens he will put in a ton of work in the offseason to get better. Growing and learning together with this young group of receivers could help everybody take a bigger jump next year. 

There always seems to be fans that have doubts or no confidence in a certain player. You will never "win" any arguments with them. Their mind is made up. 

This is what annoys me. Much of the Hurts discussion now isn't actually a discussion, it's just a bunch of people who swear he is definitely not the guy and they ignore every argument and stat that suggests we should be patient and see how he develops, because they have already made up their mind. 

They don't understand that his athleticism and running ability give him an upside that Minshew doesn't have. Sadly some of them actively want him to fail. They won't admit it, but it's clear from their posts that they do.

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But he rolls out right like most of the time. I don't think he's going to change that. He does that because that's what feels most natural to him. 

I don’t always think he trusts his receivers and his feet are naturally going to get him yards. What’s the better option? Throwing a 50/50 ball to Reagor or running for 5-10 yards? Hurts running is a part of his game regardless. Even if he does improve as a passer this will not change. The Eagles have to decide if they want a dual threat quarterback or if they don’t. Fans are going to have to accept that choice either way. 

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

This is what annoys me. Much of the Hurts discussion now isn't actually a discussion, it's just a bunch of people who swear he is definitely not the guy and they ignore every argument and stat that suggests we should be patient and see how he develops, because they have already made up their mind. 

They don't understand that his athleticism and running ability give him an upside that Minshew doesn't have. Sadly some of them actively want him to fail. They won't admit it, but it's clear from their posts that they do.

Bottom line is Minshew doesn’t guarantee the victories people assume he does. If he did he never would have left Jacksonville. People who hate Hurts are overblowing what Minshew did against the Jets. He threw a lot of screens, short passes to backs and TEs, and really avoided the wide receivers pretty much all game. The few difficult passes he had to make he didn’t even complete them. He also didn’t have a good second half something the Hurts Hate Squad have been killing him for now for months. Meanwhile those same hateful people act like none of that happened with Minshew. I don’t have an issue with Minshew. He is what he is. He’s a good backup quarterback, but if anyone truly believes this guy can lead the Eagles somewhere then they’re a dope. The bottom line is the Eagles quarterback of the future is either Hurts or he isn’t on the roster period. 

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

This is what annoys me. Much of the Hurts discussion now isn't actually a discussion, it's just a bunch of people who swear he is definitely not the guy and they ignore every argument and stat that suggests we should be patient and see how he develops, because they have already made up their mind. 

They don't understand that his athleticism and running ability give him an upside that Minshew doesn't have. Sadly some of them actively want him to fail. They won't admit it, but it's clear from their posts that they do.

This entire discussion is not about Hurts vs. Minshew.  It's about whether or not the Eagles have a legitimate starting QB (or the potential for one) on the roster.   They do not.  They have two backup QBs on the roster.   One is better at running, the other is better at passing.  Neither is ultimately the answer at QB for the long term.

10 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Bottom line is Minshew doesn’t guarantee the victories people assume he does. If he did he never would have left NY. People who hate Hurts are overblowing what Minshew did against the Jets. He threw a lot of screens, short passes to backs and TEs, and really avoided the wide receivers pretty much all game. The few difficult passes he had to make he didn’t even complete them. He also didn’t have a good second half something the Hurts Hate Squad have been killing him for now for months. Meanwhile those same hateful people act like none of that happened with Minshew. I don’t have an issue with Minshew. He is what he is. He’s a good backup quarterback, but if anyone truly believes this guy can lead the Eagles somewhere then they’re a dope. The bottom line is the Eagles quarterback of the future is either Hurts or he isn’t on the roster period. 

At some point soon Hurts needs to start proving he's a starter and shutting his haters up or else he deserves to go into the same box as Minshew.

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

This entire discussion is not about Hurts vs. Minshew.  It's about whether or not the Eagles have a legitimate starting QB (or the potential for one) on the roster.   They do not.  They have two backup QBs on the roster.   One is better at running, the other is better at passing.  Neither is ultimately the answer at QB for the long term.

This is why this debate rages on. Basically arguing over which backup should get the start. At the beginning of the season it made sense that Hurts should be given an opportunity to prove himself but that time is starting to run out IMO.

10 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

At some point soon Hurts needs to start proving he's a starter and shutting his haters up or else he deserves to go into the same box as Minshew.

Agreed, but I don’t necessarily think this year is that year. With that being the case some of the things expected by some people are basically miracles. They expect Hurts to become someone he frankly isn’t or never will be. He’s never going to have an Elway arm or Steve Young accuracy. They placed unrealistic expectations on the player so they can continue to dislike the player even if the player is winning football games. Some people will never like Jalen Hurts for a variety of reasons. Most of them bogus reason though. 

2 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

This is why this debate rages on. Basically arguing over which backup should get the start. At the beginning of the season it made sense that Hurts should be given an opportunity to prove himself but that time is starting to run out IMO.

Frankly that’s up to the Eagles to decide. In the end the quarterback will be Hurts or someone not on the roster, because the truth is Minshew will not take the Eagles anywhere. 

3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Agreed, but I don’t necessarily think this year is that year. With that being the case some of the things expected by some people are basically miracles. They expect Hurts to become someone he frankly isn’t or never will be. He’s never going to have an Elway arm or Steve Young accuracy. They placed unrealistic expectations on the player so they can continue to dislike the player even if the player is winning football games. Some people will never like Jalen Hurts for a variety of reasons. Most of them bogus reason though. 

 

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Frankly that’s up to the Eagles to decide. In the end the quarterback will be Hurts or someone not on the roster, because the truth is Minshew will not take the Eagles anywhere. 

I agree but at some point if Hurts isn't the one I believe we should at least give Minshew a chance, assuming these are our only two options again next season. I think it really comes down to how much time people are willing to give Hurts. One side is start Minshew now. The other side is we need to give Hurts another season. I'm willing to give Hurts more time but not a whole other season. If/When the Eagles decide Hurts is not the guy I think it makes sense to start Minshew because his style of play will more closely match what the next QB will look like. I just don't see the team building this team around a running QB.