13 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

There are numerous backup QBs, including players we aren't even thinking of, that are better passers than Hurts.

Better overall QB is tougher...because those backups are not very good passers...just better than Hurts.  And Hurts' running ability props him above them as a superior QB.

I don't understand why this is

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I don't understand why this is

Getting freaky with it > patience in a pocket

49 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Nice work!

I really want Muma on this team but don't think we touch LB until the 3rd now

I actually agree with him

49 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

It's his 3rd season -- he's got to make the jump to being objectively a top-half NFL starting QB

To me, that means 65%+ comp, close to 3:1 TD/INT, 11 yards per completion, and a top 8-10 offense in points scored.

This is the only stat that matters. The other are just "counting stats." They are a means to an end, but not the end.

The object is to win games, for the offense, that means scoring points, but especially points that matter (putting up 40 points in a 40-10 victory isn't as valuable as a TD drive in the 4th Q of a close game).

Whether Hurts does it with perfect spirals, wounded ducks that get to where they need to be on time, or QB scrambles when the defense drops into coverage, is irrelevant (other than aesthetics, which seem to obsess some posters). The key is doing it consistently and when it counts.

I don't know if Hurts can do that, but that's the only thing I'm focused on - can he consistently make plays that win games, not whether he can compete with Cousins for the most meaningless passing stats in the NFL award.

Baker is such a good QB that despite a ton of teams with sub-par options in a bad QB draft class that no team is willing to give up a 7th rounder to take on his reasonable salary (19M). For reference, that's less than what Jimmy G, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold are making.

I feel like I say this every year, but I think value is an overrated component of the draft. 

I’d much rather get the right guy at the wrong value than wrong guy at the right value.  Especially when you are talking about gaining/losing the equivalent of later round picks. 

identify the talent you need for the team and grab them . If there’s nobody there you love, by all means trade back but otherwise, Howie, get your guys. 

26 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

 I wonder if Baker torched Rhule when they played in college, something seems up between those two.  Baker this year is better than anyone the panthers are drafting at 6. 

I mean, it's pretty simple. If you trade anything for Baker, you have to pay him almost $19mm for one year. So now the Panthers have 2 QBs from the 2018 draft class on fully guaranteed 5th year options. $38mm fully guaranteed to 2 "busts" is quite a debacle. You can't sign Baker long-term now because (i) he's coming off injury and (ii) he's not going to take the offer you make based on his recent performance. So you trade assets, he comes in and either plays well or busts. If he busts = bad move. If he plays well, now he's looking for $40mm per year. Yeah, you could franchise him, but given all the reported maturity issues...that likely ends poorly. 

You draft someone, have them for 4 years at a reasonable cost and hope they develop. Baker is a classic trap -- good enough you have to give him an extension, not good enough to win you a championship. He's basically Dak/Wentz.

You only do this if (i) he is cut and comes cheap or (ii) the Browns GIVE you assets to take him off their hands. I'd like to see the Eagles explore (ii).

7 minutes ago, RLC said:

Baker is such a good QB that despite a ton of teams with sub-par options in a bad QB draft class that no team is willing to give up a 7th rounder to take on his reasonable salary (19M). For reference, that's less than what Jimmy G, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold are making.

Typical modern day Lincoln Riley, OU  QB.  Comes in with padded stats against the worst defenses in the country and can't adapt.  It's shocking that teams fall for it in the first place.

He is better than Hurts though.

6 minutes ago, RLC said:

Baker is such a good QB that despite a ton of teams with sub-par options in a bad QB draft class that no team is willing to give up a 7th rounder to take on his reasonable salary (19M). For reference, that's less than what Jimmy G, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold are making.

He's not good at all.  Still better than Hurts though...

2 minutes ago, RLC said:

Baker is such a good QB that despite a ton of teams with sub-par options in a bad QB draft class that no team is willing to give up a 7th rounder to take on his reasonable salary (19M). For reference, that's less than what Jimmy G, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold are making.

Mayfield is the 2022 version of Jay Cutler.  Really good arm talent but a 10-cent head and not a good teammate.  He will land somewhere after the draft, though.  A good coach will fix the turnovers, I doubt he'll ever have the mental makeup though.  

Mayfield is the bizarro-Hurts.  Lots of tangible talent and short on intangibles.  Hurts is intangibles (supposedly likeable guy and hard worker) with very few tangibles.  Neither one will win you anything. 

7 minutes ago, RLC said:

Baker is such a good QB that despite a ton of teams with sub-par options in a bad QB draft class that no team is willing to give up a 7th rounder to take on his reasonable salary (19M). For reference, that's less than what Jimmy G, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Sam Darnold are making.

They won’t move him until Watson starts  , Watson could still get suspended , once he is cleared to play  the Browns will get much more than a 7th

11 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

No.  No it's not.  Did you watch the playoff game?  You need a QB who can make throws.  Not a running qb who can win you 8-9 games against bad competition.  

Love how he says it’s the only stat that matters and also bashes the chargers’ herbert routinely. Hurts and the eagles offense averaged 19ppg vs. playoff teams this year (includes at least 3 garbage time tds). Meanwhile the chargers offense with herbert vs. playoff teams averaged 29.8 ppg and went 5-4. So if that’s the only stat that matters then the eagles were bad on offense against better competition meanwhile herbert and the chargers offense  didn’t have nearly as many issues. Yeah I’m sure the chargers who just added Mack and pieces to the defense are really envious of the eagles crap playoff appearance where they got smacked to the point where we were down 31-0

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

They won’t move him until Watson starts  , Watson could still get suspended , once he is cleared to play  the Browns will get much more than a 7th

Uh...there is 0.0% chance Baker is on the team once camp starts, unless they pay him to stay away. Jacoby Brissett was signed to play while Watson is suspended. Baker will never be allowed back into that locker room, and he'll never willingly step into it. 

They either give someone assets to take his contract, eat some of the money, or cut him. They should just eat money and get a pick.

Like I said, I'll wait and see. I don't take all the "experts" on this board seriously.

Either Hurts steps up or he doesn't, and all the blathering here won't make a lick of difference.

And to me stepping up is simple, offense is in the top ten in points scored, and if the defense is average to above, they win 10+ games.

And if Hurts doesn't look pretty, well, too bad. In the end, "you win or you die."

23 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I mean, it's pretty simple. If you trade anything for Baker, you have to pay him almost $19mm for one year. So now the Panthers have 2 QBs from the 2018 draft class on fully guaranteed 5th year options. $38mm fully guaranteed to 2 "busts" is quite a debacle. You can't sign Baker long-term now because (i) he's coming off injury and (ii) he's not going to take the offer you make based on his recent performance. So you trade assets, he comes in and either plays well or busts. If he busts = bad move. If he plays well, now he's looking for $40mm per year. Yeah, you could franchise him, but given all the reported maturity issues...that likely ends poorly. 

You draft someone, have them for 4 years at a reasonable cost and hope they develop. Baker is a classic trap -- good enough you have to give him an extension, not good enough to win you a championship. He's basically Dak/Wentz.

You only do this if (i) he is cut and comes cheap or (ii) the Browns GIVE you assets to take him off their hands. I'd like to see the Eagles explore (ii).

Both of them said they weren’t interested in each other, and Cleveland is gonna have to pay some of his salary if they want to move him anyway, unless someone else’s QB gets injured  in mini camp. 

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Like I said, I'll wait and see. I don't take all the "experts" on this board seriously.

Either Hurts steps up or he doesn't, and all the blathering here won't make a lick of difference.

And to me stepping up is simple, offense is in the top ten in points scored, and if the defense is average to above, they win 10+ games.

And if Hurts doesn't look pretty, well, too bad. In the end, "you win or you die."

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Like I said, I'll wait and see. I don't take all the "experts" on this board seriously.

Either Hurts steps up or he doesn't, and all the blathering here won't make a lick of difference.

And to me stepping up is simple, offense is in the top ten in points scored, and if the defense is average to above, they win 10+ games.

And if Hurts doesn't look pretty, well, too bad. In the end, "you win or you die."

Rich coming from the guy who routinely tries to act like an expert…

second I’ve said in the past hurts ceiling imo is a top 15 Qb if he maximizes it. Don’t believe that is good enough to win you a super bowl if your team is slightly better or even with another team and they have a superior Qb. However i also provide you stats that you seemingly ignore because you don’t like them cause it hurts your argument. 

third you win or die, well then eagles the last 2 years are 1-14 vs. playoff teams (with meaningless week 18 vs. Dallas it’s 1-15). To point out the jets had more wins against playoff teams this year then the eagles have in two years. Ditto for the lions. Jags also have more wins vs. playoff teams last two years then the eagles. Add on our one win came against a saints team with hill at Qb playing their 3rd road game in a row. Go eagles on the win or die when facing good teams. 

32 minutes ago, purplefiggy said:

I feel like I say this every year, but I think value is an overrated component of the draft. 

I’d much rather get the right guy at the wrong value than wrong guy at the right value.  Especially when you are talking about gaining/losing the equivalent of later round picks. 

identify the talent you need for the team and grab them . If there’s nobody there you love, by all means trade back but otherwise, Howie, get your guys. 

I think Howie's biggest problem is he doesn't know who his guys are.  Poor guy just can't make a pick for himself, everyone else does it for him.

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Like I said, I'll wait and see. I don't take all the "experts" on this board seriously.

Either Hurts steps up or he doesn't, and all the blathering here won't make a lick of difference.

And to me stepping up is simple, offense is in the top ten in points scored, and if the defense is average to above, they win 10+ games.

And if Hurts doesn't look pretty, well, too bad. In the end, "you win or you die."

We're no more experts than you are, friend. And it's a discussion board, of course we're going to blather on about the most important position in the sport. You took a shot at Cousins in your last post, but he had the Vikings offense right behind ours last year, at 0.5 points per game behind us. 

Let's drill down!

Cousins missed one game last year, against GB, where Minny put up 10 points. In the 16 games Cousins started, they averaged 25.94 ppg (425 total on the season, less the 10 scored in the game he missed, divided by 16).

With Hurts, we averaged 25.67 ppg. (444 total scored by us last year, less 33 from Jets game, less 26 from Cowboys game, = 385/15, which is 25.67)

So based on your own logic, Cousins was a superior QB to Hurts last year. 

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Like I said, I'll wait and see. I don't take all the "experts" on this board seriously.

Either Hurts steps up or he doesn't, and all the blathering here won't make a lick of difference.

And to me stepping up is simple, offense is in the top ten in points scored, and if the defense is average to above, they win 10+ games.

And if Hurts doesn't look pretty, well, too bad. In the end, "you win or you die."

I'm going to say he doesn't. He'll miss Watkins running wide open and roll to his right instead.

36 minutes ago, austinfan said:

This is the only stat that matters. The other are just "counting stats." They are a means to an end, but not the end.

No, it is not.  The #5 offense in PPG did not make the playoffs.

The #9 offense in PPG, with the QB that we got rid of did not make the playoffs.

3 teams lower than the Eagles in PPG ( 12th ) made the playoffs.

Just now, Swoop said:

I'm going to say he doesn't. He'll miss Watkins running wide open and roll to his right instead.

You forgot the part where he spins around in a clean pocket for no reason first. Kinda like this

 

40 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I don't know if Hurts can do that, but that's the only thing I'm focused on - can he consistently make plays that win games, not whether he can compete with Cousins for the most meaningless passing stats in the NFL award.

Go look at last seasons passing yard and passing TD leaders, and then look how far those teams went in the playoffs.