15 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

But that’s a byproduct of the fact he runs lazy routes when he doesn’t think the ball is coming to him (as play called he wasn’t supposed to be the first option— became it pre-snap) and doesn’t always give you 100% effort.  And this wasn’t the first route in this game where he ran a lazy route. He had done it on previous plays. 

The number one thing that pisses me off with Jalen Reagor is not so much his drops or pitiful punt returns. It’s effort and laziness. Say whatever we want about Nelson Agholor’s issues but even when he was bad it wasn’t an effort thing. He gave you effort and by all accounts he had a relentless work ethic. 

And these were red flags coming out of TCU that Howie ignored.  Speed is not the be all end all for an NFL player.  Justin Jefferson is plenty fast, but he was also the most pro ready route runner to come out in the draft in 10+ years.  Look at the numbers he is putting up with Kirk Cousins as his QB.

6 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Keep in mind the play has to get to the 27-yard line or it's useless.  It's 4th and 10 from the 37.  Reagor could have, and should have, come back to the QB faster -- but the DB is at the 27 to break up the pass as the ball gets there.  Reagor does come back to the 27, which is where he needs to be.  The throw is late and no zip.

It's a terrible route call against that coverage. On a comeback route, you need to flip the DB's hips the other way, as soon as he does that, you break off your route and drive back to the QB. The QB should be throwing the ball as soon as he sees the DB flip his hips. With the DB playing so deep on this, Reagor has to go much further to get him to flip his hips. Neither Reagor nor Hurts wait for this, and he just throws it when Reagor stops his route. The throw is then short and weak. Terrible all around. 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

And that’s why the Hurts discussion is so bad in here. I’m not picking on you, but people talk in extremes in here, and it’s impossible to have a real discussion.  

What is the real discussion on Hurts that needs to be had, though? 

Will Hurts progress to being a top 15 passer in the NFL?  No. 

Will he learn to go through reads and progressions to the level of a franchise QB?  No. 

Is the current offensive scheme based on throwing less than 25 time per game sustainable to be a top 5-10 offense and make a deep run in the playoffs?  No.

I see lots of assertions that Hurts is progressing from last year, but is he any better than his first NFL start against the Saints? IMO, No.

 

Hurts runs really well -- but everyone should have known that when he was drafted in 2020.  Odds are better than 50/50 at this point Hurts will remain the starter in 2022 but IMO it's apparent the reason is the limited cap space available and the appearance that Wilson, Watson, Rodgers would be unwilling to be traded to Philly.  

7 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Was thinking the same.  The WRs are probably thinking, well this MFer ain't going to throw us a good ball anyway.

Not an excuse for lazy route running but I think deep down they don't have much faith in Hurts.

not sure it's a concious thought, more sub conscious, they get used to not getting the ball thrown to them downfield, so the internal clock starts telling them it's not happening. 

This is part of why we cannot have Hurts as our QB next year, it has to be at least someone who can and will pass the ball. 

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

And these were red flags coming out of TCU that Howie ignored.  Speed is not the be all end all for an NFL player.  Justin Jefferson is plenty fast, but he was also the most pro ready route runner to come out in the draft in 10+ years.  Look at the numbers he is putting up with Kirk Cousins as his QB.

IIRC, Jefferson even tested faster than Reagor at the Combine.  Excuses were made for Reagor's slow time... about him putting on more muscle, or whatnot... but basically, there was no excuse for not drafting the most NFL ready WR in that draft.   In Reagor, they saw what they wanted to see rather what was there.  

1 minute ago, Alphagrand said:

What is the real discussion on Hurts that needs to be had, though? 

Will Hurts progress to being a top 15 passer in the NFL?  No. 

Will he learn to go through reads and progressions to the level of a franchise QB?  No. 

Is the current offensive scheme based on throwing less than 25 time per game sustainable to be a top 5-10 offense and make a deep run in the playoffs?  No.

I see lots of assertions that Hurts is progressing from last year, but is he any better than his first NFL start against the Saints? IMO, No.

 

Hurts runs really well -- but everyone should have known that when he was drafted in 2020.  Odds are better than 50/50 at this point Hurts will remain the starter in 2022 but IMO it's apparent the reason is the limited cap space available and the appearance that Wilson, Watson, Rodgers would be unwilling to be traded to Philly.  

BINGO- Thank you!  These two say it all:

Will he learn to go through reads and progressions to the level of a franchise QB?  No. 

Is the current offensive scheme based on throwing less than 25 time per game sustainable to be a top 5-10 offense and make a deep run in the playoffs?  No.

 

2 hours ago, Ipiggles said:

we spent the last 2 years with some of the worst QB play in the nfl. I was begrudgingly willing to sit through 2021 season seeing if Hurts could progress- That ship sailed for me. 

If we go into 2022 season with Hurts as our starting QB- I may have to take a haitus from watching them play, till we have a REAL QB or a REAL prospect. I cannot sit through another season of absolute dreck in QB play. Not when we have so many possible other options and some resources to change that.

I get that it's about the long haul, but nothing about Hurts is good for the long haul. It's not good for the other team mates, especially guys like Smith and Watson. It's not good for our defense.   And it's not good for my mental health. 

So no I Wont do it. Life is too short. 

I watched this team with Brister, Hoying, Kolb, etc. I'm certainly not going to boycott now.

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

Really boring option, but I could see Jamison Crowder as an option for the Eagles. Cheap, reliable hands, under 30.  Bargain bin pick up to replace Ward if he walks. 

Crowder is an excellent slot receiver who could be an extremely reliable chain mover with Goedert.

You know what Jeff, just hire me.

8 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

IIRC, Jefferson even tested faster than Reagor at the Combine.  Excuses were made for Reagor's slow time... about him putting on more muscle, or whatnot... but basically, there was no excuse for not drafting the most NFL ready WR in that draft.   In Reagor, they saw what they wanted to see rather what was there.  

I made the statement pre draft, @Outlaw and @Ray75 can back it up.  Jefferson was the best WR in the class, and nothing about his two years in the NFL leaves any doubt that was the case.

5 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

The Bears wins is crazy. They went to the Super Bowl in the last 20 years, and yet....

Also, anybody who thinks emulating what the Cowboys do should really give their head a shake

4 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I watched this team with Brister, Hoying, Kolb, etc. I'm certainly not going to boycott now.

 

The difference between Hurts and Brister, Hoying and Kolb. Those three had their shot and it didn't work out and we moved on from them the very next year. I gave it a shot with Hurts. Just like I did with those three. 

If Hurts gets another year - it goes beyond that. 

I miss the symmetry.

3 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

You know what Jeff, just hire me.

We had some similar thoughts... and y'all have to forgive me for going with Dotson in the 2nd round... but I couldn't help myself. 

I decided to go with some 'traditional' schools for late round picks.  For example... OSU has produced a lot of quality DEs, so I grabbed Tyreke Smith.  PSU has produced a lot of LBs, so I grabbed Brandon Smith.  Alabama has produced a lot of quality RBs (especially recently), so I grabbed Brian Robinson, Jr.  (same for LB with Christian Harris).   And I took the flyer on the more athletic QB with the big arm - Desmond Ridder.   I just missed on the big WR, but getting another speed guy made sense with a QB with a bigger arm anyway.  Bonus... picked up a 2nd round pick that's likely going to be no worse than #40 overall.

 

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I made the statement pre draft, @Outlaw and @Ray75 can back it up.  Jefferson was the best WR in the class, and nothing about his two years in the NFL leaves any doubt that was the case.

As did I.  

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The Bears wins is crazy. They went to the Super Bowl in the last 20 years, and yet....

Also, anybody who thinks emulating what the Cowboys do should really give their head a shake

The Cowboys are a franchise that lucked into two franchise QBs, has drafted well recently, and has all the resources needed.

But the owner keeps brining in and keeping crappy coaches.  Since Parcells....Phillips, Garrett, and McCarthy. 

Jerry needs to hand the team over to a real coach.  Fortunately for us, I doubt he will.

5 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I miss the symmetry.

No worries... game 18 will likely be a part of the next CBA, so you won't have to deal with the asymmetry for long.

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

We had some similar thoughts... and y'all have to forgive me for going with Dotson in the 2nd round... but I couldn't help myself. 

I decided to go with some 'traditional' schools for late round picks.  For example... OSU has produced a lot of quality DEs, so I grabbed Tyreke Smith.  PSU has produced a lot of LBs, so I grabbed Brandon Smith.  Alabama has produced a lot of quality RBs (especially recently), so I grabbed Brian Robinson, Jr.  (same for LB with Christian Harris).   And I took the flyer on the more athletic QB with the big arm - Desmond Ridder.   I just missed on the big WR, but getting another speed guy made sense with a QB with a bigger arm anyway.  Bonus... picked up a 2nd round pick that's likely going to be no worse than #40 overall.

 

I wouldn't be upset with either of our drafts. I doubled up at CB, EDGE and LB but still got us a quality WR/RB/QB/S. Araiza is a SOOPERWEAPON, and Deaton is the type of late round olineman that Stout will love.

too funny not to post

 

 

18 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

IIRC, Jefferson even tested faster than Reagor at the Combine.  Excuses were made for Reagor's slow time... about him putting on more muscle, or whatnot... but basically, there was no excuse for not drafting the most NFL ready WR in that draft.   In Reagor, they saw what they wanted to see rather what was there.  

The went off the GPS tracking. Jefferson didn’t play fast at LSU. I believe he was in the mph range. Reagor had elite top mph according to the GPS. 

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The went off the GPS tracking. Jefferson didn’t play fast at LSU. I believe he was in the mph range. Reagor had elite top mph according to the GPS. 

Which one looks fast in the NFL ??

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The went off the GPS tracking. Jefferson didn’t play fast at LSU. I believe he was in the mph range. Reagor had elite top mph according to the GPS. 

No, Jefferson didn't play fast at LSU, he played effective.  Reagor might have played fast at TCU... how's that speed translating to the NFL?   He also played disinterested and lacked concentration.  Two traits that did seem to have followed him to the NFL.

 

There's no way to slice it... Reagor was a horrible pick... even worse than Agholor.

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No worries... game 18 will likely be a part of the next CBA, so you won't have to deal with the asymmetry for long.

If they do go to 18, wonder how they would change the framework.  

Maybe instead of a 6th game against the other conference, they would switch to a 13th and 14th game in the conference, based on standings.

For example, in 2023 we would play our 6 division games, 4 against the NFCW, 4 against the AFCE, and then 4 against the first and second place teams from the other two NFC divisions (as a result of us winning the NFCE in 2022 ).

15 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

The difference between Hurts and Brister, Hoying and Kolb. Those three had their shot and it didn't work out and we moved on from them the very next year. I gave it a shot with Hurts. Just like I did with those three. 

If Hurts gets another year - it goes beyond that. 

Hurts has had 2 years already; people don't want to acknowledge that, but he saw the field more games than not in 2020.  Most 2nd round drafted QBs don't get more rope than that.

 

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Which one looks fast in the NFL ??

Well that has nothing to do with them as draft prospects…

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No, Jefferson didn't play fast at LSU, he played effective.  Reagor might have played fast at TCU... how's that speed translating to the NFL?   He also played disinterested and lacked concentration.  Two traits that did seem to have followed him to the NFL.

 

There's no way to slice it... Reagor was a horrible pick... even worse than Agholor.

The speed obviously isn’t translating because he’s brain dead. 

But the Eagles didn’t make up his speed out of thin air. They had tape and data to back it up. 

If you guys head over to the Jalen Hurts discussion, we have some real idiots asking what arm talent is, and what is the reason you can't teach Hurts to throw like Allen.  Comedy gold.