The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

[EagleVA]

Here's the problem with you're video, the Eagles OL was dominated by Tampa's DL, look at that play, did Hurts have time to make a read?

In Allen's horrible first year, I never heard anyone level that claim against him.

Bottom line, I'm not surprised because that claim is leveled against most all black QBs.

You call me the race baiter but you put the bait on the line, sure, I could have ignored your highlighted comment but I felt the need to speak up so you can take a look at yourself.

[MF POON]

10 hours ago, downundermike said:

So you are on our side of the discussion then if you don’t expect him to reach elite level.  Wouldn’t you rather go get a guy who can reach elite level ASAP ??

McNabb was never "elite" level and he was a franchise QB. You can win with guys that are really good, but not elite, so no I'm not on your side. Also, there's plenty of elite QB's that are sitting on 0 SB wins, or have just the 1 over a long career. 

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

In 2017, Wentz had that "rare collection of arm strength, height, mobility and production" as if that's somehow a guarantee of future success. The problem with your rebuttals is that they always pretend like having the bigger arm is a prerequisite to being a top 10 QB. It is not. They pretend that being a leader in stats (like passing TDs) is more important than leading the offense to TDs. It is not. You actually stated that drives somehow should be finished in the air. That is complete nonsense. Drives should be finished --- that is all that matters. Once again, look at Troy Aikman's "HOF numbers." Yeah ... different era, but he was far below the passing leaders of that era, because he was managing an offense, not padding stats. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 8:16 PM, Shalodeep said:

Josh Allen can throw an out 40-50 yards deep the same way Jalen throws his 10. You may not NEED that, but it opens up the offense in a way Jalen's arm strength does not. Does not matter his footwork, he will still be only 6"1 and only comfortably throw 40 yards max without needing a lot of extra effort. You can keep saying it's not a problem..but you should be able to admit it isn't a strength. 

If accuracy isn't a strength, and arm strength isn't a strength, and mechanics isn't a strength, vision isn't a strength, and anticipation isn't a strength .... Then what do we have....patience by the fan base 

Ps...you did admit Jalen wasn't good his first two years like Josh Allen. 

 

Arm strength post for ya you missed.

 

[Shalodeep]

12 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Here's the problem with you're video, the Eagles OL was dominated by Tampa's DL, look at that play, did Hurts have time to make a read?

In Allen's horrible first year, I never heard anyone level that claim against him.

Bottom line, I'm not surprised because that claim is leveled against most all black QBs.

You call me the race baiter but you put the bait on the line, sure, I could have ignored your highlighted comment but I felt the need to speak up so you can take a look at yourself.

Yup. Looking at self. See the man who never said the same thing about McNabb, Vick, Watson, Wilson, Jackson.... Maybe I think Hurts has the same problem as josh Rosen and Sam darnold, but has enough physical ability to bail himself out and get positive yardage until a real defense makes him commit. To passing. Good morning racist, I played your white vs black game. I think you will be the first ever I block 

[EagleJoe8]

16 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Here's the problem with you're video, the Eagles OL was dominated by Tampa's DL, look at that play, did Hurts have time to make a read?

In Allen's horrible first year, I never heard anyone level that claim against him.

Bottom line, I'm not surprised because that claim is leveled against most all black QBs.

You call me the race baiter but you put the bait on the line, sure, I could have ignored your highlighted comment but I felt the need to speak up so you can take a look at yourself.

Your. 

[Shalodeep]

13 minutes ago, MF POON said:

McNabb was never "elite" level and he was a franchise QB. You can win with guys that are really good, but not elite, so no I'm not on your side. Also, there's plenty of elite QB's that are sitting on 0 SB wins, or have just the 1 over a long career. 

McNabb had elite traits and had elite playmaking ability. McNabb with the weapons would of had elite numbers consistently as well.... McNabb was about as close to elite you could be without being it in your world

[Hawkeye]

15 hours ago, eglz1 said:

True about Covid but the teams that Manning and Brees went to were not spoken of as Super Bowl contenders I don't believe. Favre was not about to share snaps with Rodgers so I don't know how much Rodgers played the first three years but I'm pretty sure it wasn't much. The 2020 Eagles were crap due in part due to OL injuries but they were 3 years removed from a Super Bowl win so probably a better team than those that Manning & Brees went to. It takes time for the teams to get better.

Total agreement. Particularly teams with first-time head coaches, offensive and defensive coordinators like, say....well, you know. 

Don't get me wrong, this is a make-or-break season for Hurts, and anything less than a deep playoff run will be an organizational failure.  I just think we've become a microwave world where if a player doesn't have immediate success he's labeled a bust. 

Jason Kelce comes to mind.  Those of you who were on the old board remember - half the posters wanted to run him out of town in his first couple of years. Now?  He's an all-time great.  But it took time. 

[MF POON]

Just now, Shalodeep said:

McNabb had elite traits and had elite playmaking ability. McNabb with the weapons would of had elite numbers consistently as well.... McNabb was about as close to elite you could be without being it in your world

He probably could've been with a true #1 WR throughout his career, but looking at it objectively, he wasn't elite. I think he was a great QB and just below that tier of "elite."  

[EagleVA]

34 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

 I think you will be the first ever I block 

Help yourself, I won't lose any sleep over it.

[Shalodeep]

14 minutes ago, MF POON said:

He probably could've been with a true #1 WR throughout his career, but looking at it objectively, he wasn't elite. I think he was a great QB and just below that tier of "elite."  

If mcnabb had the 2022 roster, I would be putting money down that we came out of the year with a ring. 

[EagleVA]

So I'm watching Get Up, they were talking Tom Brady and posted the stat 9 tds, 8 ints when pressured since 2020, 74 tds, 16 ints when not pressured.

Is it fair to say that Tom Brady "couldn't read a defense" when pressured or did he not have time to read the defense.......I'm thinking the latter.

More to the point, when Wentz had his horrible last season in Philadelphia never did I post he couldn't read a defense because it wouldn't have been fair, the OL was horrible that year, he didn't have time to read the defense.

Another thing I never criticized Wentz or any other QB for "holding the ball too long", QBs are looking for open receivers. 

 

[MF POON]

6 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

So I'm watch Get Up and they were talking Tom Brady and posted the stat 9 tds, 8 ints when pressured since 2020, 74 tds, 16 ints when not pressured.

Is if fair to say that Tom Brady "couldn't read a defense" when pressured or did he not have time to read the defense.......I'm thinking the latter.

More to the point, when Wentz has his horrible last season in Philadelphia never did I post he couldn't read a defense because it wouldn't have been fair, the OL was horrible that year, he didn't have time to read the defense.

Another thing I never criticized Wentz or any other QB for is "holding the ball too long", QBs are looking for open receivers. 

 

To be fair, Wentz did have an issue with holding onto the ball too long.  Trying to make plays when nothing was there, and it would lead to a sack/loss, or turnover.

[brkmsn]

On 8/23/2022 at 5:16 PM, Shalodeep said:

Josh Allen can throw an out 40-50 yards deep the same way Jalen throws his 10. You may not NEED that, but it opens up the offense in a way Jalen's arm strength does not. Does not matter his footwork, he will still be only 6"1 and only comfortably throw 40 yards max without needing a lot of extra effort. You can keep saying it's not a problem..but you should be able to admit it isn't a strength. 

If accuracy isn't a strength, and arm strength isn't a strength, and mechanics isn't a strength, vision isn't a strength, and anticipation isn't a strength .... Then what do we have....patience by the fan base 

Ps...you did admit Jalen wasn't good his first two years like Josh Allen. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

 

Arm strength post for ya you missed.

 

I'd like to see this 40 or 50 yard out. You must have a video because I know you wouldn't just make something up ...

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

 

I'd like to see this 40 or 50 yard out. You must have a video because I know you wouldn't just make something up ...

2:00 minute mark

 

 

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

2:00 minute mark

 

 

Nice try. Was a scramble drill, not an out and it was 30 yards (net). I want to see a team run a 40 or 50 yard deep out. (lol) How long does the O-line need to keep a clean pocket for that play?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Nice try. Was a scramble drill, not an out and it was 30 yards (net). I want to see a team run a 40 or 50 yard deep out. (lol) How long does the O-line need to keep a clean pocket for that play?

He threw the ball 40 yards, and Sanders was crossing the 20 on the field as Allen let it go.  He drive it 40-42 yards as Sanders took 3-4 steps.  Watch it here.  8 minute mark.

 

[Diehardfan]

15 hours ago, Kwahu said:

Well there you have it

It was worth a shot. But what a disappointment, not even considering him salvageable in any form? 

Either they’re right and his pro career is just completely over, or some other team makes it work out as a backup. Ultimately the Eagles spent relatively nothing to gamble on him. 

 

Strong may not work but some in here are probably the same who were saying last summer or the one before to cut JM because he was struggling at LT during camp and would never be an NFL player. 

[eglz1]

10 hours ago, MF POON said:

He probably could've been with a true #1 WR throughout his career, but looking at it objectively, he wasn't elite. I think he was a great QB and just below that tier of "elite."  

Donovan belongs in the Hall of Very Good IMO so I agree, below the 'elite' tier but still very good.

[opa-opa]

On 8/25/2022 at 6:42 AM, Shalodeep said:

If mcnabb had the 2022 roster, I would be putting money down that we came out of the year with a ring. 

I doubt our current roster is anywhere as good as the 2004 Patriots roster. Not even close.

[Bwestbrook36]

1 hour ago, opa-opa said:

I doubt our current roster is anywhere as good as the 2004 Patriots roster. Not even close.

He is talking about against today's competition 

[nipples]

On 8/25/2022 at 6:47 PM, Diehardfan said:

Strong may not work but some in here are probably the same who were saying last summer or the one before to cut JM because he was struggling at LT during camp and would never be an NFL player. 

Huh? I don’t recall ANYONE saying he should be cut. In fact, I almost thought he was being overhyped by many. Obviously with what we know now, the hype was warranted. 
 

But no, I don’t remember seeing anyone being down on him. 

[Iggles_Phan]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:25 AM, EazyEaglez said:

 then they never should have drafted him. 

Agreed

On 8/24/2022 at 7:25 AM, Bwestbrook36 said:

Meh whatever, then I guess the eagles are just flat out stupid then . 

Yes... sometimes they are.

[Iggles_Phan]

On 8/24/2022 at 10:51 AM, MF POON said:

2nd full year as a starter. saying his 3rd year is just misleading because he didn't play much at all his first year.  So he doesn't have a ton of NFL experience, and sometimes QB's don't really get everything together until their 3rd season.  Drew Brees is a good example of that, as his first 2 seasons were awful.

Saying 3rd year is accurate because his last contracted year is year 4, and that comes in 2023.  So, they need to figure out what he is, and what he isn't before contract negotiations can start.  The CBA doesn't put an asterisk on the rookie year of a contract for a player that doesn't get a lot of playing time.  

 

[Iggles_Phan]

On 8/24/2022 at 11:13 AM, MF POON said:

It is because you're implying that he has more experience playing at the position than he actually does. He played 3 1/2 games his rookie year, that's nothing, so It's not surprising that he still has weaknesses because he doesn't have a ton of NFL experience yet.  This season he should be able to show that he's improved upon those weak elements of his game, and take the next step.  

How many years has he been playing QB?  Starting at QB?  Being coached on the fundamentals as a QB?   Is not his current QB coach a friend of the family?  Did he not work with him in his down time to get better at being a QB... with him being such a hard worker and all, you'd think he'd have soaked up every opportunity like that to improve his PASSING ability.  

And yet, he still displays the same weaknesses in his game years later that he did that got him benched at Alabama in the NCG.  Sure, he's improved a little in those areas along the way.  But, over the last 5 years, he's still a guy who doesn't trust his pocket and when the big play needs to be made, prefers to do it with his legs, rather than with his arm.

[flyerdog]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:49 AM, MF POON said:

McNabb was never "elite" level and he was a franchise QB. You can win with guys that are really good, but not elite, so no I'm not on your side. Also, there's plenty of elite QB's that are sitting on 0 SB wins, or have just the 1 over a long career. 

the term "elite" is also problematic because while those players are the benchmark...they are also 'one of a kind' even amongst their peers: 

EVERYBODY wants a Tom Brady (obviously)...but even among NFL players...he is unique and obviously miles ahead of any of his competition

....the same could be said for Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods...and so on...There are those guys that transcend even at the highest level...