The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

[EazyEaglez]

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

IDK, what were you talking about when complaining about Hurts' training camp reps (including 7v7s)?

They get mad when I call them out on their BS bias though. 🙄

[EazyEaglez]

4 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

We will see what he looks like after Minnesota and Washington chase him around a little if continues to escape to the right constantly 

And if he does that and win will you still cry about it? Better question if you’re wrong will you stop whining about it? 

[Shalodeep]

4 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

And if he does that and win will you still cry about it? Better question if you’re wrong will you stop whining about it? 

Won't cry nearly as much as you do about people discussing football on a discussion board lol 

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

When he runs on 7v7s? Shouldn't be doing that. My favorite part of your defense is you've ignored all the positive I've said about his progression so far, but you say I have an agenda. 

I wonder why I would ignore your "positives" that include disclaimers? Paraphrasing here: "He looked good, but..... rolls right too often and rarely passes left..." "He was the starter in 9 wins last season, but.......... how many opponents had winning records?" "Sure he's passing left, using the middle of the field, and making good decisions, but........ these are just practices and preseason games, not the real thing. Once the real games begin, he will revert back to the old Hurts." 

 

 

[EazyEaglez]

10 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Won't cry nearly as much as you do about people discussing football on a discussion board lol 

So you’ll keep on crying. Got it. 

[brkmsn]

9 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

They get mad when I call them out on their BS bias though. 🙄

The thing I really don't understand is why, generally speaking, so many people are afraid to be optimistic about anybody or anything. Sure, I get ridiculed for supporting players others have given up on already. But at least I'm not living a miserable life where I'm always depressed about bad things that have yet to happen. There are no guarantees in life, but that doesn't mean a player can't improve, or stay healthy, or help a team win a Super Bowl, etc... 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

There are no guarantees in life, but that doesn't mean a player can't improve, or stay healthy, or help a team win a Super Bowl, etc... 

Nobody thought Corey Clement was going to have the SB performance he did. And to be fair since then it has been down hill for him. But he still delivered in the biggest of games. 

[EazyEaglez]

4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

The thing I really don't understand is why, generally speaking, so many people are afraid to be optimistic about anybody or anything. Sure, I get ridiculed for supporting players others have given up on already. But at least I'm not living a miserable life where I'm always depressed about bad things that have yet to happen. There are no guarantees in life, but that doesn't mean a player can't improve, or stay healthy, or help a team win a Super Bowl, etc... 

Well I’ll state that your excitement for a certain former wide receiver was a little over the top. With that being the case some guys certainly haven’t earned the right to give them the benefit of doubt while others have. The same people who are killing Hurts now made excuse after excuse for the previous quarterback. Here’s the thing though. That guy told us over and over again that he won’t change his game. Hurts on the other hand is showing us over and over again he’s working to change his game yet the same clowns who kept kissing the previous guys sack mercilessly rip Hurts. As you mentioned they can’t even give the guy a compliment with out throwing in a rip for good measure, but then they want to claim they’re rooting for him to succeed. 

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Nobody thought Corey Clement was going to have the SB performance he did. And to be fair since then it has been down hill for him. But he still delivered in the biggest of games. 

Some players are more effective in a team role than as individual performers. Players that care about the team's outcome more than their own are invaluable. Looking back on the 2017 Eagles, so many players were critical to our success that season. It was something special. Many that moved on have yet to be a part of something even close to that. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Some players are more effective in a team role than as individual performers. Players that care about the team's outcome more than their own are invaluable. Looking back on the 2017 Eagles, so many players were critical to our success that season. It was something special. Many that moved on have yet to be a part of something even close to that. 

I guess you could say the same about the Patriots over the years. Often their success is more down to the team collective rather than individual stars. Of course they did have Brady so there is also that. 

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Well I’ll state that your excitement for a certain former wide receiver was a little over the top. With that being the case some guys certainly haven’t earned the right to give them the benefit of doubt while others have. The same people who are killing Hurts now made excuse after excuse for the previous quarterback. Here’s the thing though. That guy told us over and over again that he won’t change his game. Hurts on the other hand is showing us over and over again he’s working to change his game yet the same clowns who kept kissing the previous guys sack mercilessly rip Hurts. As you mentioned they can’t even give the guy a compliment with out throwing in a rip for good measure, but then they want to claim they’re rooting for him to succeed. 

It was "over the top" because you define it as "excitement." What did he ever do to warrant excitement? All I ever did was state that I didn't see enough to give him the bust label and argued that until someone took his job away, he deserved the chance to show us he could contribute. Clearly as a WR, he didn't and he blew his chance here, which was more than a fair amount of time. I expected more, but we all saw what happened. 

I never had a problem with Wentz defending his style. That was the type of player he was. The bad thing for him is it opened him up to be a scapegoat. He had a terrible year in 2020, but I'll always say the "benching" didn't make sense since he wasn't given an opportunity to redeem himself. He was unceremoniously dethroned as the face of the franchise in a season with the division title (and playoff spot) on the line. 

I would have had no problem continuing to support Wentz had things not gone like they did. But once he was moved, it was time to support Hurts. Hurts is a completely different style of QB. That may be hard for some people to accept. But he is working on his passing game, showed improvement last year, and appears to have made a significant leap in what we've seen so far this year. As I said, JJAW never gave us a reason to be "excited" about his future, but people have to be turning a blind eye right now to not think Hurts is giving us reason to get excited. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

It was "over the top" because you define it as "excitement." What did he ever do to warrant excitement? All I ever did was state that I didn't see enough to give him the bust label and argued that until someone took his job away, he deserved the chance to show us he could contribute. Clearly as a WR, he didn't and he blew his chance here, which was more than a fair amount of time. I expected more, but we all saw what happened. 

I never had a problem with Wentz defending his style. That was the type of player he was. The bad thing for him is it opened him up to be a scapegoat. He had a terrible year in 2020, but I'll always say the "benching" didn't make sense since he wasn't given an opportunity to redeem himself. He was unceremoniously dethroned as the face of the franchise in a season with the division title (and playoff spot) on the line. 

I would have had no problem continuing to support Wentz had things not gone like they did. But once he was moved, it was time to support Hurts. Hurts is a completely different style of QB. That may be hard for some people to accept. But he is working on his passing game, showed improvement last year, and appears to have made a significant leap in what we've seen so far this year. As I said, JJAW never gave us a reason to be "excited" about his future, but people have to be turning a blind eye right now to not think Hurts is giving us reason to get excited. 

JJAW never did anything to warrant any kind of hope that he could or would amount to something. You were over the top, because you were posting route running videos like they were highlight videos. 😂 I’m not coming at you here. My point is the others are clearly not being consistent. They defended and excused Wentz for basically not caring the slightest about improving while constantly trashing Hurts even though he’s working hard to improve. Heck DUM is over here about to cream his pants to watch a 4th string prospect take a knee and throw one pass. That’s how much he hates the Eagles starting quarterback.

[brkmsn]

19 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

JJAW never did anything to warrant any kind of hope that he could or would amount to something. You were over the top, because you were posting route running videos like they were highlight videos. 😂 I’m not coming at you here. My point is the others are clearly not being consistent. They defended and excused Wentz for basically not caring the slightest about improving while constantly trashing Hurts even though he’s working hard to improve. Heck DUM is over here about to cream his pants to watch a 4th string prospect take a knee and throw one pass. That’s how much he hates the Eagles starting quarterback.

JJAW had one good preseason game as a rookie. After that, nothing.  The videos I posted were showing JJAW doing things others were saying he never did  "get open, create separation." As you guys argued your case against JJAW, some of you created a false perception of me and what I was doing. I wasn't hyping JJAW, excited about anything from his rookie (regular) season through this year's TC, or even praising him as a WR despite the picture some of you were painting of me. I did question why he wasn't ever used as the red zone target he was billed as when we drafted him. It's weird to pick a player with a certain skill set and then never try to use that skill set. 

JJAW is gone now and we don't need him. After Brown, Smith, and Watkins, I'm enjoying seeing Pascal, Reagor, and Cain battling for WR spots. 

[Mike030270]

Stinnett seems very up and down. Can look like a nice backup or a PS player

Minshew played well but had some bad moments

Hopefully preseason 3 we get to see more of Strong

[EazyEaglez]

18 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

JJAW had one good preseason game as a rookie. After that, nothing.  The videos I posted were showing JJAW doing things others were saying he never did  "get open, create separation." As you guys argued your case against JJAW, some of you created a false perception of me and what I was doing. I wasn't hyping JJAW, excited about anything from his rookie (regular) season through this year's TC, or even praising him as a WR despite the picture some of you were painting of me. I did question why he wasn't ever used as the red zone target he was billed as when we drafted him. It's weird to pick a player with a certain skill set and then never try to use that skill set. 

JJAW is gone now and we don't need him. After Brown, Smith, and Watkins, I'm enjoying seeing Pascal, Reagor, and Cain battling for WR spots. 

I believe JJAW caught a TD in that game. I don’t think JJAW was used that way, because the Eagles didn’t trust him. Neither JJAW nor Reagor have been able to live up to their draft locations. I’m glad JJAW is gone and I hope Reagor soon fools, because for every good thing he does it seems like two or three bad things are soon to follow. Oh and just because JJAW is on film appearing to be open doesn’t mean he’s in the right position or running the correct route. 

[brkmsn]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

 and I hope Reagor soon fools, because for every good thing he does it seems like two or three bad things are soon to follow.

Give optimism a chance!

[opa-opa]

Reagor has the potential to be at least a backup WR. Jjaw isnt an NFL level player.

[Shalodeep]

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I wonder why I would ignore your "positives" that include disclaimers? Paraphrasing here: "He looked good, but..... rolls right too often and rarely passes left..." "He was the starter in 9 wins last season, but.......... how many opponents had winning records?" "Sure he's passing left, using the middle of the field, and making good decisions, but........ these are just practices and preseason games, not the real thing. Once the real games begin, he will revert back to the old Hurts." 

 

 

8 wins and many with backup QBs on bad teams.... Just facts. If you don't like context because it ruins your point, then defend a better player or just say we will see.

I think the overall play from his first preseason was good. I liked seeing him attack the middle and take what was there. That aspect of his game taking the next step will get him a lot of praise here. Anyone complain about check downs doesn't understand the new NFL. I've given credit to his growth...it's you who is incapable of accepting his glaring weaknesses up to this point

[CouchKing]

EJ Perry played for the Jags. He went 6-11 on his throws. 

Maybe we get to see Carson Strong complete a pass next game.

[brkmsn]

4 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

8 wins and many with backup QBs on bad teams.... Just facts. If you don't like context because it ruins your point, then defend a better player or just say we will see.

I think the overall play from his first preseason was good. I liked seeing him attack the middle and take what was there. That aspect of his game taking the next step will get him a lot of praise here. Anyone complain about check downs doesn't understand the new NFL. I've given credit to his growth...it's you who is incapable of accepting his glaring weaknesses up to this point

Wrong, I expect young QBs to have weaknesses. Even veteran starting QBs have weaknesses. There are no perfect QBs. 

I love talking about context, so let's do that. Before last season began, expectations for the Eagles were vey low. Power rankings had us at 27, 26, 29, 24, 30 etc... heading into 2021. We were not expected to be competitive  or to win 9 games. The over under was 6.5. Our schedule during all those predictions was not a mystery. Simply put, we exceeded expectations. We beat more teams than we were supposed to. We did this with a defense that was near the bottom of the league in sacks, creating turnovers, and allowed the highest completion percentage.  We did this with one of the NFL's worst return games in both returns and coverage. We did this with a supposedly bad QB (according to some of you) of our own. Meanwhile, offensively we were :

13th in net yards per attempt passing

7th in yards per drive

12th in points per drive

4th in 3rd down conversion percentage

8th in red zone percentage resulting in TDs

Every year there are going to be teams with good records and teams with bad records, good teams and bad teams. Every team gets to play good and bad teams. We don't get to throw stats out because of opponent quality. Foles has a jersey and football in the HOF because he decimated a terrible defense on a pitiful team. That's football. Derrick Thomas had 8 sacks in one game and it wasn't like he was playing against a HOFer all day. That's football. Most offensive records are set against bad defenses and most defensive records are set against bad offenses. But when you look at the Eagles' 2021 season, it's clear as day that we exceeded expectations because the offense --- the offense that was designed around our strengths including our QB. 

[Shalodeep]

18 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Wrong, I expect young QBs to have weaknesses. Even veteran starting QBs have weaknesses. There are no perfect QBs. 

I love talking about context, so let's do that. Before last season began, expectations for the Eagles were vey low. Power rankings had us at 27, 26, 29, 24, 30 etc... heading into 2021. We were not expected to be competitive  or to win 9 games. The over under was 6.5. Our schedule during all those predictions was not a mystery. Simply put, we exceeded expectations. We beat more teams than we were supposed to. We did this with a defense that was near the bottom of the league in sacks, creating turnovers, and allowed the highest completion percentage.  We did this with one of the NFL's worst return games in both returns and coverage. We did this with a supposedly bad QB (according to some of you) of our own. Meanwhile, offensively we were :

13th in net yards per attempt passing

7th in yards per drive

12th in points per drive

4th in 3rd down conversion percentage

8th in red zone percentage resulting in TDs

Every year there are going to be teams with good records and teams with bad records, good teams and bad teams. Every team gets to play good and bad teams. We don't get to throw stats out because of opponent quality. Foles has a jersey and football in the HOF because he decimated a terrible defense on a pitiful team. That's football. Derrick Thomas had 8 sacks in one game and it wasn't like he was playing against a HOFer all day. That's football. Most offensive records are set against bad defenses and most defensive records are set against bad offenses. But when you look at the Eagles' 2021 season, it's clear as day that we exceeded expectations because the offense --- the offense that was designed around our strengths including our QB. 

Top rushing offense and a collection of really bad back up QBs can sneak you some wins. Cute finding the one passing thing he wasn't a complete ****show with. He averaged in the 20s in all passing stats.  It's fine. You defend your favorite players with all your fan heart. I already said I expect him to be better and what I think he has shown so far. He has far more to prove than he has shown up to this point at quarterback.  Weak mechanics, bad decision making, little pocket presence.  He will take a step forward just by having two #1 receivers not including a top 5 tight end....the roster is made for success...if he is just average, he is gone. 

I would say there is more talent on this team than the 2017 team other than QB, RB, and coach. Expectations will be high. Hoping he and the team( because it's not just QB out there) delivers

[brkmsn]

10 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Cute finding the one passing thing he wasn't a complete ****show with. He averaged in the 20s in all passing stats. 

I couldn't care less if there are 31 QBs that attempted more passes than him, We still managed to rank 14th in total offensive yards. It's pretty easy to rationalize why a player that attempts fewer passes also ends up with fewer yards and fewer passing TDs. I also couldn't care less whether we throw or run for TDs as long as we are scoring TDs. Being 8th in red zone TD percentage says all we need to know about his "measly" 16 passing TDs last season. 

Out of all the stats that depress you so much, there's only one that I want to see improve --- completion percentage. I'd like to see him get that up to 65% this year. I was happy that he improved there compared to his rookie year, but I want to see more improvement in that area this season. 

 

Here's another metric that rates QBs in specific areas (scores of 100 are average and higher is better)

Jalen Hurts:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Att	Y/A+	NY/A+	AY/A+	ANY/A+	Cmp%+	TD%+	Int%+	Sack%+	Rate+
2020	22	PHI		2	15	4	1-3-0	148	99	98	96	95	46	95	92	85	81
2021	23	PHI	QB	1	15	15	8-7-0	432	102	104	100	101	83	91	104	103	93

 

Josh Allen: (for perspective and because he's a popular benchmark):

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Att	Y/A+	NY/A+	AY/A+	ANY/A+	Cmp%+	TD%+	Int%+	Sack%+	Rate+
2018	22	BUF	QB	17	12	11	5-6-0	320	86	83	78	77	60	86	77	89	70
2019	23	BUF	QB	17	16	16	10-6-0	461	89	88	93	92	77	97	106	91	91
2020*	24	BUF	QB	17	16	16	13-3-0	572	115	119	118	120	120	119	110	115	120
2021	25	BUF	QB	17	17	17	11-6-0	646	93	100	97	102	92	109	99	117	100

 

Gardner Minshew: (why not? He played well for us last year)

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Att	Y/A+	NY/A+	AY/A+	ANY/A+	Cmp%+	TD%+	Int%+	Sack%+	Rate+
2019	23	JAX	QB	15	14	12	6-6-0	470	94	96	101	102	84	98	117	99	99
2020	24	JAX	QB	15	9	8	1-7-0	327	94	93	101	100	106	103	114	89	105
2021	25	PHI	qb	10	4	2	1-1-0	60	103	99	111	107	115	120	113	87	117

 

Carson Wentz:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Att	Y/A+	NY/A+	AY/A+	ANY/A+	Cmp%+	TD%+	Int%+	Sack%+	Rate+
2016	24	PHI	QB	11	16	16	7-9-0	607	79	84	82	85	99	79	101	108	86
2017*	25	PHI	QB	11	13	13	11-2-0	440	106	107	117	117	89	134	113	102	116
2018	26	PHI	QB	11	11	11	5-6-0	401	109	107	112	110	123	108	110	96	116
2019	27	PHI	QB	11	16	16	9-7-0	607	88	92	98	100	97	98	120	105	101
2020	28	PHI	QB	11	12	12	3-8-1	437	76	69	75	71	69	91	78	67	75
2021	29	IND	QB	2	17	17	9-8-0	516	94	95	104	103	88	106	120	102	103

[D-Shiznit]

TIFWIW: Caplan and Mosher said that Strong is not as good as what the Eagles thought he was, they see him as nothing more than a strong arm, and they might not even bring him back on the Practice Squad.

[Bwestbrook36]

57 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

TIFWIW: Caplan and Mosher said that Strong is not as good as what the Eagles thought he was, they see him as nothing more than a strong arm, and they might not even bring him back on the Practice Squad.

If true, that answers why he isn't getting any reps. Not that it was a big mystery to me lol. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

If true, that answers why he isn't getting any reps. Not that it was a big mystery to me lol. 

Obviously Strong is the secret weapon! The Eagles are stashing him for the regular season where they will unveil him as their starting quarterback and trade away Hurts just like they traded away Bradford for their last starting Carson! Just ask DUM! He’ll tell ya! 😂