The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

[Mike030270]

15 hours ago, brkmsn said:

1) You can see his progression from season to season.

2) He's one of the top young QBs in the NFL and someone that sets the bar for other young, developing QBs. 

3) He's from this era so people can't scream, "Can't compare! Different Era!"

His progress has been so little. He still has the same weaknesses from college and he's going into his 3rd year

What top young QBs in the NFL are you comparing him to? The comparison between Hurts and Allen is insane

What era are you cutting off?

[MF POON]

25 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

His progress has been so little. He still has the same weaknesses from college and he's going into his 3rd year

What top young QBs in the NFL are you comparing him to? The comparison between Hurts and Allen is insane

What era are you cutting off?

2nd full year as a starter. saying his 3rd year is just misleading because he didn't play much at all his first year.  So he doesn't have a ton of NFL experience, and sometimes QB's don't really get everything together until their 3rd season.  Drew Brees is a good example of that, as his first 2 seasons were awful.

[Mike030270]

9 minutes ago, MF POON said:

2nd full year as a starter. saying his 3rd year is just misleading because he didn't play much at all his first year.  So he doesn't have a ton of NFL experience, and sometimes QB's don't really get everything together until their 3rd season.  Drew Brees is a good example of that, as his first 2 seasons were awful.

It's not misleading. He's a 3rd year player. He's had more NFL experience during regular season and offseason than an actual 2nd year player

[Diehardfan]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Yeah don’t worry Carson Strong will fix everything with that arm talent and throws ten yards into the bleachers. 🫣

He will fix everything at Burger King throwing burgers out the drive through window for all I care at this point. That doesn't change the fact that Hurts sucks as a QB.

[Hawkeye]

21 hours ago, Dweedlebug said:

I mostly agree, but I don't really see that there were better long term options available in the off season.  This was a pretty terrible draft for QBs.

I've been saying this for months.  It was a terrible QB draft and none of the big names supposedly in play were coming here; Rodgers was never leaving GB, the Watson situation speaks for itself and Wilson wasn't waiving his no-trade clause to come here.  Furthermore, Hurts counts for less than $2 million against the cap this season after the Eagles just paid Wentz $34 million to play for Indy.

What else were they supposed to do?

[MF POON]

Just now, Mike030270 said:

It's not misleading. He's a 3rd year player. He's had more NFL experience during regular season and offseason than an actual 2nd year player

It is because you're implying that he has more experience playing at the position than he actually does. He played 3 1/2 games his rookie year, that's nothing, so It's not surprising that he still has weaknesses because he doesn't have a ton of NFL experience yet.  This season he should be able to show that he's improved upon those weak elements of his game, and take the next step.  

[Mike030270]

28 minutes ago, MF POON said:

It is because you're implying that he has more experience playing at the position than he actually does. He played 3 1/2 games his rookie year, that's nothing, so It's not surprising that he still has weaknesses because he doesn't have a ton of NFL experience yet.  This season he should be able to show that he's improved upon those weak elements of his game, and take the next step.  

It's not misleading. He literally is a 3rd year player that has more experience than actual 2nd year players

2nd year players don't have a 3rd year of offseason, practice, reps, etc.

[MF POON]

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

It's not misleading. He literally is a 3rd year player that has more experience than actual 2nd year players

2nd year players don't have a 3rd year of offseason, practice, reps, etc.

Well due to basic math, yes, he has more experience than 2nd year players, as they're going into a second season.  He still only has one full season as a starter, and this is his second as the starting QB for this team.  

I think you lack basic reading comprehension because you're saying something I'm not. No one is labelling Hurts a "second year player" by pointing out how much time he has actually started at the position. 

[Bwestbrook36]

I'm starting to feel bad for whoever is gonna be wrong because they will be ridiculed endlessly. Both sides of this debate has dug their heels in about 100ft into the ground lol. 

[Hawkeye]

18 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Well due to basic math, yes, he has more experience than 2nd year players, as they're going into a second season.  He still only has one full season as a starter, and this is his second as the starting QB for this team.  

I think you lack basic reading comprehension because you're saying something I'm not. No one is labelling Hurts a "second year player" by pointing out how much time he has actually started at the position. 

And we also need to take into account the impact COVID had on the 2020 draft class.  No offseason program to speak of. Minimal on-field work with coaches when they finally did get into camp and so on.  That's why guys like Tua, Justin Fields, and, yes, Hurts are having good preseasons this year - they're catching up.

The other thing to consider is that quarterback is the toughest position in all of sports and sometimes it takes a minute for guys to develop.

Peyton Manning was 3-13 his first year and didn't win a playoff game until his 5th season.
Aaron Rodgers threw 1 TD pass his first three years combined.
Drew Brees was 10-17 in his first two years as a starter (seasons 2 and 3 of his career), throwing 28 TDs and 31 INTs.  

If any of those scenarios happened here people would be clamoring for their heads.  

"All we need is just a little patience - yeah, yeah, yeah."

[Mike030270]

46 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Well due to basic math, yes, he has more experience than 2nd year players, as they're going into a second season.  He still only has one full season as a starter, and this is his second as the starting QB for this team.  

I think you lack basic reading comprehension because you're saying something I'm not. No one is labelling Hurts a "second year player" by pointing out how much time he has actually started at the position. 

Actually I have seen people saying it but sure go ahead with the attacks

[MF POON]

57 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I'm starting to feel bad for whoever is gonna be wrong because they will be ridiculed endlessly. Both sides of this debate has dug their heels in about 100ft into the ground lol. 

I won't mind admitting he failed, as I've always had the mindset of let's wait and see how he develops.  I think he'll have success, but I don't expect him to reach elite level, but I hope he surprises me.

[Bwestbrook36]

1 minute ago, MF POON said:

I won't mind admitting he failed, as I've always had the mindset of let's wait and see how he develops.  I think he'll have success, but I don't expect him to reach elite level, but I hope he surprises me.

I've been back and forth on him. The playoffs have me really doubting him as of right now but, like you said we shall see. I think he will be better, how much better is what we are all waiting to see I think. 

[eglz1]

4 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

And we also need to take into account the impact COVID had on the 2020 draft class.  No offseason program to speak of. Minimal on-field work with coaches when they finally did get into camp and so on.  That's why guys like Tua, Justin Fields, and, yes, Hurts are having good preseasons this year - they're catching up.

The other thing to consider is that quarterback is the toughest position in all of sports and sometimes it takes a minute for guys to develop.

Peyton Manning was 3-13 his first year and didn't win a playoff game until his 5th season.
Aaron Rodgers threw 1 TD pass his first three years combined.
Drew Brees was 10-17 in his first two years as a starter (seasons 2 and 3 of his career), throwing 28 TDs and 31 INTs.  

If any of those scenarios happened here people would be clamoring for their heads.  

"All we need is just a little patience - yeah, yeah, yeah."

True about Covid but the teams that Manning and Brees went to were not spoken of as Super Bowl contenders I don't believe. Favre was not about to share snaps with Rodgers so I don't know how much Rodgers played the first three years but I'm pretty sure it wasn't much. The 2020 Eagles were crap due in part due to OL injuries but they were 3 years removed from a Super Bowl win so probably a better team than those that Manning & Brees went to. It takes time for the teams to get better.

[brkmsn]

7 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

His progress has been so little. He still has the same weaknesses from college and he's going into his 3rd year

What top young QBs in the NFL are you comparing him to? The comparison between Hurts and Allen is insane

What era are you cutting off?

You asked me why I used Josh Allen. Those 3 things were about Josh Allen, not Hurts. Josh Allen is a young QB that has improved with experience and is now one of the top players at his position. He helps set the bar when it comes to development. If I had to list a 4th reason why I would use Josh Allen, it would be:

 

4) It's hilarious watching Hurts-Skeptics get their panties in a bunch by comparing Hurts to a player that is currently  or historically better. 

[brkmsn]

 

[opa-opa]

17 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

And we also need to take into account the impact COVID had on the 2020 draft class.  No offseason program to speak of. Minimal on-field work with coaches when they finally did get into camp and so on.  That's why guys like Tua, Justin Fields, and, yes, Hurts are having good preseasons this year - they're catching up.

The other thing to consider is that quarterback is the toughest position in all of sports and sometimes it takes a minute for guys to develop.

Peyton Manning was 3-13 his first year and didn't win a playoff game until his 5th season.
Aaron Rodgers threw 1 TD pass his first three years combined.
Drew Brees was 10-17 in his first two years as a starter (seasons 2 and 3 of his career), throwing 28 TDs and 31 INTs.  

If any of those scenarios happened here people would be clamoring for their heads.  

"All we need is just a little patience - yeah, yeah, yeah."

Maybe because its not all about wins and losses when judging QBs. Maybe those QBs showed flashes, like throwing 4 tds despite losing the game. Or making an amazing comeback to win a game in the last second.

Hurts has not shown anything like that. Yet. His best games ever are still his first two starts imho. He still doesnt really have a "signature" game yet imho.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, MF POON said:

I won't mind admitting he failed, as I've always had the mindset of let's wait and see how he develops.  I think he'll have success, but I don't expect him to reach elite level, but I hope he surprises me.

So you are on our side of the discussion then if you don’t expect him to reach elite level.  Wouldn’t you rather go get a guy who can reach elite level ASAP ??

[Guest]

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You asked me why I used Josh Allen. Those 3 things were about Josh Allen, not Hurts. Josh Allen is a young QB that has improved with experience and is now one of the top players at his position. He helps set the bar when it comes to development. If I had to list a 4th reason why I would use Josh Allen, it would be:

 

4) It's hilarious watching Hurts-Skeptics get their panties in a bunch by comparing Hurts to a player that is currently  or historically better. 

Hurts does not have the size and arm Allen has.  He never will.

A comp for Hurts is Tyrod Taylor.

[brkmsn]

27 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Hurts does not have the size and arm Allen has.  He never will.

A comp for Hurts is Tyrod Taylor.

For the umpteenth time... I don't care. I'm comparing their development as professionals, not their height, shoe size or favorite color. 

A comp for Hurts is every QB that currently plays or played in the past. You can compare similarities and you can compare differences like height. But acting like a comparison is some kind of sin is a joke and demonstrates a lack of understanding the basic definition of the word "compare." You guys really do crack me up with your "rules for debate."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/comparing-apples-and-oranges-37838381/

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

For the umpteenth time... I don't care. I'm comparing their development as professionals, not their height, shoe size or favorite color. 

A comp for Hurts is every QB that currently plays or played in the past. You can compare similarities and you can compare differences like height. But acting like a comparison is some kind of sin is a joke and demonstrates a lack of understanding the basic definition of the word "compare." You guys really do crack me up with your "rules for debate."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/comparing-apples-and-oranges-37838381/

Is it rules of debate or the thought that comparing a potential MVP coming into this year to Hurts feels pretty unfair to Hurts. Allen has such a rare collection of arm strength, height, mobility and production that he could end up in the conversation with legends in a few years of just replicating what he has done. I get the idea of him making a giant leap year three gives this odd window of hope that Hurts will do something comparable. The problem is that Hurts has never shown the skill set those with lesser physical traits usually use to overcome not being able to wing it anywhere on the field with a flick of the wrist and be able to see over the line just by being taller than everyone else on the field (these skills include accuracy, touch, ability to read defense both pre and post snap, pocket presence). What Hurts has in spades is mobility ...Allen has that in spades as well. That's why the comparison is scoffed at. The only thing that Hurts has elite Allen has as well. That's where the favorable comparison falls apart. Arm strength is night and day different, accuracy is closer than people think (last year 63.3 to 61.3) but finishing drives in the air aka a QBs Job is a 20 TD difference! You could double Jalen's passing TDS and still fall shorter than a Chad Pennington hail Mary.  It's asking for the world of Jalen Hurts to climb the mountain of top ten QB with less tools than those who stand a top of there now. 

 

[Kwahu]

On 8/23/2022 at 3:42 AM, D-Shiznit said:

TIFWIW: Caplan and Mosher said that Strong is not as good as what the Eagles thought he was, they see him as nothing more than a strong arm, and they might not even bring him back on the Practice Squad.

Well there you have it

It was worth a shot. But what a disappointment, not even considering him salvageable in any form? 

Either they’re right and his pro career is just completely over, or some other team makes it work out as a backup. Ultimately the Eagles spent relatively nothing to gamble on him. 

 

[brkmsn]

6 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Is it rules of debate or the thought that comparing a potential MVP coming into this year to Hurts feels pretty unfair to Hurts. Allen has such a rare collection of arm strength, height, mobility and production that he could end up in the conversation with legends in a few years of just replicating what he has done. I get the idea of him making a giant leap year three gives this odd window of hope that Hurts will do something comparable. The problem is that Hurts has never shown the skill set those with lesser physical traits usually use to overcome not being able to wing it anywhere on the field with a flick of the wrist and be able to see over the line just by being taller than everyone else on the field (these skills include accuracy, touch, ability to read defense both pre and post snap, pocket presence). What Hurts has in spades is mobility ...Allen has that in spades as well. That's why the comparison is scoffed at. The only thing that Hurts has elite Allen has as well. That's where the favorable comparison falls apart. Arm strength is night and day different, accuracy is closer than people think (last year 63.3 to 61.3) but finishing drives in the air aka a QBs Job is a 20 TD difference! You could double Jalen's passing TDS and still fall shorter than a Chad Pennington hail Mary.  It's asking for the world of Jalen Hurts to climb the mountain of top ten QB with less tools than those who stand a top of there now. 

 

In 2017, Wentz had that "rare collection of arm strength, height, mobility and production" as if that's somehow a guarantee of future success. The problem with your rebuttals is that they always pretend like having the bigger arm is a prerequisite to being a top 10 QB. It is not. They pretend that being a leader in stats (like passing TDs) is more important than leading the offense to TDs. It is not. You actually stated that drives somehow should be finished in the air. That is complete nonsense. Drives should be finished --- that is all that matters. Once again, look at Troy Aikman's "HOF numbers." Yeah ... different era, but he was far below the passing leaders of that era, because he was managing an offense, not padding stats. 

[EagleVA]

7 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

The problem is that Hurts has never shown the skill set those with lesser physical traits usually use to overcome not being able to wing it anywhere on the field with a flick of the wrist and be able to see over the line just by being taller than everyone else on the field (these skills include accuracy, touch, ability to read defense both pre and post snap, pocket presence). 

Why am I not surprised???

[Shalodeep]

6 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Why am I not surprised???

Good morning race baiter. How are you?  Here is a short video that may be able to hold your short attention span long enough.

https://youtu.be/woSeUvnlg6o