2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I wanted them to sell off all their assets in the offseason and then again every month this season.

I have to assume this mess will put a punctuation mark on this generation of Phillies and they will pull the plug in the offseason. There is absolutely no move to make that can engender any optimism, goodwill, or participation from the fans heading into 2027, if there is a 2027 season. They'll have people showing up to the stadium just to boo (which is what they may be up against this weekend).

Their problem was they were never gonna sell guys like Wheeler, Schwarber, or all the prospects ibecause they had too much money invested and they didn’t wanna have a dark ages like they had after 2011. And they were too foolish to realize the writing on the wall. That Kerkering disaster against the Dodgers was this eras Ryan Howard Achilles moment. The toughest decisions are the ones you have to be honest with yourself and the Phillies have not been honest with themselves for the past couple years. And it’s bit them in the ass multiple times.

That said they were definitely fans that were about going all in and trading all our prospects away cause they weren’t gonna pan out anyways and go all in on our last shot with this core. That was always a mistake. They should’ve been always trying to sell, get some prospects in and who knows that they plan out. not probably not. But at least he gave you more options and potential to have success down the road.

I would also bet they’re not gonna pull the plug. They have too much money invested. They can’t get off a lot of that money. So they’re gonna wind up saying "we were pretty close to making the playoffs. We had Luzardo go down for a month. We had Garcia be lost for most of the year. Wheeler didn’t start the season. That we feel we can build it up and get back to the playoffs and win.” I guarantee you that’s what they’re gonna say.

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Their problem was they were never gonna do it because they had too much money invested. And they were too foolish to realize the writing on the wall. That Kerkering disaster against the Dodgers was this eras Ryan Howard Achilles moment. The toughest decisions are the ones you have to be honest with yourself and the Phillies have not been honest with themselves for the past couple years. And it’s bit them in the ass multiple times.

That said they were definitely fans that were about going all in and trading all our prospects away cause they weren’t gonna pan out anyways and go all in on our last shot with this core. That was always a mistake. They should’ve been always trying to sell, get some prospects in and who knows that they plan out. not probably not. But at least he gave you more options and potential to have success down the road.

I would also bet they’re not gonna pull the plug. They have too much money invested. They can’t get off a lot of that money. So they’re gonna wind up saying "we were pretty close to making the playoffs. We had Luzardo go down for a month. We had Garcia be lost for most of the year. Wheeler didn’t start the season. That we feel we can build it up and get back to the playoffs and win.” I guarantee you that’s what they’re gonna say.

We had a lot of debates about their prospects. I never wanted to trade them...I just didn't value them. But I've been in the "rebuild the farm at the cost of the major league team" mode for almost 2 years now.

I think Middleton is smart enough to realize that the Phillies will be met with a tidal wave of apathy next year. They'll get anger between now and whenever they are eliminated. But next year will be pure apathy. Attendance will be way, way down. They are not going to be able to rationalize anything. Doesn't mean they won't try, of course.

Another year of age on Schwarber, Harper, Turner, Nola, JT plus subtracting Wheeler altogether....they are going to be notably worse next year than this year. This year, they either back into the playoffs or just miss. Next year, I think the struggle will be staying north of .500 rather than making the playoffs.

9 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

We had a lot of debates about their prospects. I never wanted to trade them...I just didn't value them. But I've been in the "rebuild the farm at the cost of the major league team" mode for almost 2 years now.

I think Middleton is smart enough to realize that the Phillies will be met with a tidal wave of apathy next year. They'll get anger between now and whenever they are eliminated. But next year will be pure apathy. Attendance will be way, way down. They are not going to be able to rationalize anything. Doesn't mean they won't try, of course.

Another year of age on Schwarber, Harper, Turner, Nola, JT plus subtracting Wheeler altogether....they are going to be notably worse next year than this year. This year, they either back into the playoffs or just miss. Next year, I think the struggle will be staying north of .500 rather than making the playoffs.

I don’t think they’re gonna do what you think. They have way too much money invested in this roster to just completely strip it down. And the only way you’re gonna get people to take some of that money back is to give up your prospects with them in order to get them off the books. That’s not gonna happen

Like the time to trade, Kyle Schwarber was at the trade deadline. Cause he was awesome in the first half. The second half of the year he has not been good. And this is kind of the second straight second half where he is tailed off dramatically. And he still has four years left on that contract. Nobody’s taking that contract on at this point unless you take minimal back or you eat some of that contract. Wheeler only has one year left then he could retire. You’re not gonna get as much for him in a trade now and he has to actually approve of a trade because he has a no trade clause. He could say no I don’t wanna be traded. Let me just finish out this year and then I’ll retire then. Duran is about the only one that has great value right now. Even his value has diminished because he only has one year left on his contract. Nola while he’s look good the second half, he was still awful for half of the season. He also is owed a lot of money for another four years. Nobody’s taking on that contract unless you eat part of that contract, which I would be surprised that they did. Add on he has to approve a trade as well because he’s been in the 10 years. I’m guessing he would if you traded him to the right spot. There’s not much they could do trade wise to tear it down, get prospects that are good and shed money.

The time to trade them was at the deadline when you saw they weren’t good enough to beat the better teams. Schwarber had really good value, Wheeler had very good value. Duran had very good value, particularly the last two because they had a year and a half left on their contracts. I think Wheeler would’ve been more open to being traded then with a year and a half left because he would be there at that location for about a year and a half rather than his last go around he’s gonna be there for a couple of months.

Middleton knew running it back after 2024 and 2025 was gonna create issues and that people were gonna be upset. Guess what they did? Ran it back. The only thing they tried to do is get Bo Bichette. I will guarantee you they will go after someone like Ian Happ and Randy arozarena. Get one of them, add to Bullpen and say we weren’t better position to win this year

I said at the time it was made that Arraez trade wasn’t good. He was a lefty, he didn’t fix the problem that you really had which was a middle of the order right handed power bat that could protect Bryce Harper. The type of bat that people feared and didn’t wanna face behind him. So he would get much better pitching to hit. The unfortunate after they got through the bad teams of August, you ran into the good teams. And guess what? The good teams forced you to have to try to have Arraez beat them. He can’t because he’s not a cleanup hitter. And then Bryce went back to what he was doing before August. Now you sit there with this prospect that they traded up couldn’t wind up being very good and you’re gonna be left with egg on their face

I would also point out the Phillies want Harper and Kyle Schwarber to hit their 500 home run in Phillies uniforms. Whether or not they get there that is another story. But that’s what they want. So they’re gonna be around.