33 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

My new strategy is to not get set on any draft targets and then to rationalize whomever we end up with.

That’s how you end up to the point of saying "well that TCU QB was trash, Jalen will do much better with a good QB throwing to him.” 

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Baloney.

The Atlanta freaking Falcons put up a huge running game against the Saints, with a rookie QB making his first start and a sub-par OL.  Give me a break.  The Saints can't defned the run well, plain and simple.

How did the 49ers do against them? 

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And it's a risky business, leading to A LOT of unnecessary hits to your QB.  I'm not asking them to strategically 'rest' players.   I am asking them NOT to run their QB at historically high levels.  Not sure that that's a novel concept.

 

I'd add, that if this is the plan moving forward, then the QB position needs to become a short term, not a long term position, and you constantly churn the position every 3-5 years.  You can't hitch your wagon to a QB that plays that style and pay $40M, while also requiring top flight players around him and the right backup QB.  Turns the NFL into an NCAA clone at least at the QB position.

I don’t disagree that it’s risky. Hence the emphasis on a backup.

I’ve mentioned before that there might be value in treating the QB position like RB. That’s also an option.

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

That’s like telling Andy Reid to run the ball more. You can say it until you’re blue in the face, but it doesn’t matter. So you get personnel that works for the playcallers and offense.

Horse is already out of the barn for this season.  So, you have to do what best suits your personnel.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Baloney.

The Atlanta freaking Falcons put up a huge running game against the Saints, with a rookie QB making his first start and a sub-par OL.  Give me a break.  The Saints can't defned the run well, plain and simple.

The numbers back that up the last 8 games before the eagles. Saints were the second best pass defense over that time. A portion of it without Lattimore so getting him back they got even stronger. At the start of the year the saints were top 10 against the run. The 8 games heading into the eagles matchup they had fallen all the way to 26th over the 8 game stretch. I’m sure cause the eagles love analytics they had those numbers. 

4 minutes ago, TEW said:

And yet we didn’t run the ball. What does that tell you about the coach and his view towards the game?

Nope, you’re discussing the future of the QB position, and for some reason are getting very angry about it.

I've been discussing what was wrong with the game plan for the Saints game and how the coaches screwed it up.  

 

As for the first part, it tells me the coaches miscalculated and the team paid the price for it.   Air it out against the 2nd best pass defense with the backup QB and backup RT.  Brilliant.  

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

The numbers back that up the last 8 games before the eagles. Saints were the second best pass defense over that time. A portion of it without Lattimore so getting him back they got even stronger. At the start of the year the saints were top 10 against the run. The 8 games heading into the eagles matchup they had fallen all the way to 26th over the 8 game stretch. I’m sure cause the eagles love analytics they had those numbers. 

And... their plan was to pass... early and often.

20 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

And right on cue with the childish, name calling attacks.

Are you not a fan of Hurts ??

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I've been discussing what was wrong with the game plan for the Saints game and how the coaches screwed it up.  

Everything I’ve posted today has been about the draft, and the discussion started with how to use our second first round pick. I suggested we could see an unusual selection, like Bijan Robinson or Anthony Richardson.

Everything from there has been about Anthony Richardson and the future of the backup QB position in general.

4 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

How did the 49ers do against them? 

Well enough.  They ran the ball 29 times.  The Eagles ran the ball 15 times, including the head scratching 4th and 1 QB sneak.  Many times it isn't about the production, but the frequency with the running game.

We are 100% not 13-3 without our aggressive passing game early in games. Teams shouldn't even be afraid of our running game early. We are throwing in the 1st quarter relentlessly with every intent to be up early. It has worked very well for us.

5 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

How did the 49ers do against them? 

They ran it 23 times for 92 yards with their RB’s.  They also shut them out so 13 points was enough to win.

They dominated TOP and shortened the game, exactly like the Eagles should have.

1 minute ago, schuy7 said:

We are 100% not 13-3 without our aggressive passing game early in games. Teams shouldn't even be afraid of our running game early. We are throwing in the 1st quarter relentlessly with every intent to be up early. It has worked very well for us.

And teams know that.  Saints would not have been prepared for it, especially with the back up QB passing 40 times the week before.

2 minutes ago, TEW said:

Everything I’ve posted today has been about the draft, and the discussion started with how to use our second first round pick. I suggested we could see an unusual selection, like Bijan Robinson or Anthony Richardson.

Everything from there has been about Anthony Richardson and the future of the backup QB position in general.

And everything I posted was about the Saints game plan.  Somehow our positions crossed, because you made it about the team's requirement to have a running QB to be effective.  That's an assertion that's removed from the two realms.  They don't require a running QB, they have a running QB.  And so they leveraged the talent.  Then... they got into a game without that running QB, and they didn't adjust to it well, and the way they chose to adjust was to abandon the run.  I don't think it was due to an inability to run, but an unwillingness to do so.  And that's not surprising, given the Lurie has always wanted to have a passing offense, first and foremost.  That's never changed, and this team remains a pass heavy team, even with a dominant run game... when they choose to unleash it.

3 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Settle down there, Morpheus

He must have gotten into the peyote stash.

11 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

That’s how you end up to the point of saying "well that TCU QB was trash, Jalen will do much better with a good QB throwing to him.” 

A division 1 football player lost weight because of a nearby tornado and will be a monster once he’s allowed to eat and is no longer a 228lb DE.

Would have been a first round pick if he didn’t steal an Xbox and tear his acl.

Would have been a first round pick if not for an Achilles injury.

Has the agility of AB.

Broke Reggie White’s sack record

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Are you not a fan of Hurts ??

I am a fan of the Eagles. And this isn't a Hurts discussion, it's a discussion about the coaches. So I don't see where your comment was designed to do anything but troll. 

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That is 100% accurate.  And I can't figure out why they allowed it to the level they have... even encouraged it.  I don't get it.  I just don't.

If they don’t have any plans of him being the starter for the next 7-10 years, then I get it.  A player like Hurts is not likely to be a starter in this league past the age of 30-31.  They treat him like a running back… So assume a running back’s career span and always have a quality backup option available.  This is why I assume Howie drafts another quarterback with a premium pick (top 2 rounds) within the next 2 years…regardless of what happens with Jalen’s next contract.

15 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And... their plan was to pass... early and often.

Yup. If you go back to week 5 onward the saints have been run on outside of a couple of games. 

seattle— 151 rushing yards; 7.2 yards per carry 

Bengals— 75 rushing yards; 5.4 yards per carry

Cardinals— 137 rushing yards; 4.7 yards per carry

Raiders— 38 rushing yards, 2.9 yards per carry (reflection the raiders got down 24-0 at nearly the start of second half)

Steelers— 217 rushing yards; 5.0 yards per carry

rams— 148 rushing yards; 4.9 yards per carry

49ers— 96 rushing yards; 3.3 yards per carry

Bucs— 76 rushing yards; 3.8 yards per carry

Falcons— 231 rushing yards; 5.9 yards per carry

Browns— 124 rushing yards; 3.6 yards per carry 

so on average since week 5 they had given up 129 rushing yards a game and 4.7 yards per carry. That would rank 24th in the league in rushing yards per game and 25th in yards per carry. Did i mention their pass defense got stronger as Lattimore returned and over that same stretch were top 5 pass defense  

 

 

@LeanMeanGM.

Birds 24

Gints 21

Elliott game winning FG.

16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

They ran it 23 times for 92 yards with their RB’s.  They also shut them out so 13 points was enough to win.

They dominated TOP and shortened the game, exactly like the Eagles should have.

I’d add mccaffrey was banged up in that game. He got 11 rushes and mason/mitchell had 12. Mccaffrey had 32 yards and a low 2.9 yards per. Mitchell and mason combined for 60 yards on 12 carries which is 5 yards per carry. So a healthy mccaffrey might have had a better day and more carries (also i believe Mitchell left this game with a mcl sprain as well. He actually looked good before leaving on his 7 carries) 

I just really don’t like the trio of Sanders, Scott, and Gainwell because neither is a north/south bruiser that routinely will not be brought down by arm tackles. Especially with a QB like Minshew under center. 

3 hours ago, TEW said:

Pretty much. I think there is a really good chance we trade down as well.

I will say, I think we could see a shocker at 31 (or whatever it ends up being). A RB like Bijan Robinson assuming Sanders moves on would make a lot of sense.

I’ll also throw this curve ball out there: don’t be surprised if Howie takes a flyer on QB Anthony Richardson if he drops to our late first rounder. It’s clear to me that our entire offense gets disrupted without having a running threat at QB.

This is a running team built on that option action from the QB position and things just don’t work right without it.

We also know how highly the eagles value the QB position. Richardson has super star potential, but obviously needs work, so he’d be a good fit learning behind Hurts for his rookie year. We can get a few years of elite backup QB play out of him and then flip him for extra draft picks towards the end of his contract.

Rather than Richardson, I could see Howie taking a UDFA flyer on Max Duggan from TCU.  Right now (pending the National Championship game results) all the draft Boards have Duggan ranked way, way down.  DraftTek currently has him as the 15th ranked QB, which translates to the 330th ranked player for all positions.  @Original Sin has opined that he believes Duggan will not thrive in the NFL the way he has at TCU, but I believe Duggan's style and leadership qualities mandate a look .  Cameron Rising of Utah is another Day 3 or UDFA alternative to Richardson.  He is #14 QB and #284 overall on DraftTek.

Scouting Report: Strengths

• Athletic quarterback who is a threat to leave the pocket and gain positive yardage at any time. Possesses very good vision balance, elusiveness and deceptive speed and power as a runner.
• Gets the ball out quickly, making ·splitsecond decisions. Good short to intermediate level accuracy, demonstrating the ball placement to allow receivers to run after the catch.
• Duggan must be accounted for when used in the read-option game.
• Good (not elite) arm strength and can easily make all the NFL throws with effortless deep passes.
• Duggan plays with a confident demeanor and has the athleticism to move out of the pocket and create plays out of structure.
• From a physical standpoint, a prototypical modern quarterback.

Scouting Report: Weaknesses

• Duggan often holds the ball too long. While Duggan keeps his eyes up while moving, his mechanics get increasingly sloppy once he’s pushed off his spot.
• Has struggled with his decision-making and needs to improve his pre-snap recognition skills to read defenses and see blitzes. Doesn't decipher information as quickly as you would like, but does see the entire field and understands coverage.
• He is slight of frame, which is problematic for a dual-threat quarterback. Duggan has marginal height for the pocket, and there’s not much room to add weight (NFL physicality will be an issue, especially if he’s going to use his legs on a consistent basis).

 

2 hours ago, Dwide Schrude said:

If we’re talking about backup QB, Cameron Ward out of Washington State has been a guy I’ve thought about Eagles going after in the draft. Right now he’s seen as a Day 2 or Day 3 guy, not sure where he’ll be ranked when it gets closer to the draft. 

Ward is another good alternative to Richardson

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

And everything I posted was about the Saints game plan.  Somehow our positions crossed, because you made it about the team's requirement to have a running QB to be effective.  That's an assertion that's removed from the two realms.  They don't require a running QB, they have a running QB.  And so they leveraged the talent.  Then... they got into a game without that running QB, and they didn't adjust to it well, and the way they chose to adjust was to abandon the run.  I don't think it was due to an inability to run, but an unwillingness to do so.  And that's not surprising, given the Lurie has always wanted to have a passing offense, first and foremost.  That's never changed, and this team remains a pass heavy team, even with a dominant run game... when they choose to unleash it.

Yeah, and the entire playbook, coaching, and personnel are designed around that running QB. 

So when we no longer have a running QB, we have issues.

That’s the point. You can’t coach an offense and playbook for 3/4 of the season around a running QB and then when he gets hurt expect the offense to function in the same way when your backup can’t run.

So pick an offense around Hurts that plays to his strengths and make sure the backup also has those traits so the offense continues to play to the QBs strengths.

As far as inability vs unwillingness to run, perception is reality. If the coach doesn’t have confidence in running the ball without his running QB, then it doesn’t much matter if this view is wrong, because practically he’s still calling the plays. Again, it’s like asking Andy Reid to run the ball a lot.

So get a backup QB who can both pass and run, like Hurts, so the play calling isn’t disrupted by injury.

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d add mccaffrey was banged up in that game. He got 11 rushes and mason/mitchell had 12. Mccaffrey had 32 yards and a low 2.9 yards per. Mitchell and mason combined for 60 yards on 12 carries which is 5 yards per carry. So a healthy mccaffrey might have had a better day and more carries (also i believe Mitchell left this game with a mcl sprain as well. He actually looked good before leaving on his 7 carries) 

The 49ers threw 37 times against the Saints. So I guess their coaches had a bad game plan?