The only downside to this amazing draft weekend is my anticipation level for at least pre-season to begin is the highest it's been, second only to post-LII. It's gonna be a looooong wait until meaningful football is being played.

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

I agree that Howie's superpower is his aggressiveness, emboldened by Jeffrey Lurie.

Howie is able to take risks without getting fired. That's huge! He took a shot at Robert Quinn. It didn't work out. Cost us a late 4th. Also took a shot at CJGJ for a 5th which was key to getting us to the SB. The value of one 4th and one 5th for both Quinn and CJGJ is worth it.

Same logic applies to a lot of his trades. Sometimes, you get Darius Slay. Sometimes you get Genard Avery.

In the aggregate, he wins more than he loses.

Look at the Cowboys. They were risk-averse with Dak on his rookie deal and have 2 playoff wins since 2016 to show for it. They have all-pros on their roster during that time (Martin, Parsons, Zeke, Tyron Smith) and couldn't push it. They'll make the playoffs again and lose in RD1 & 2.

Off-season trades…always wins.

Mid season trades…almost always loses.

I think in the offseason, he’s more careful in adding complete players that project as solutions.  Mid season, he’s been more aggressive in adding flawed boosts and needs.

20 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

My dad taught her high school science.  

I played YMCA soccer with her. She was just a BIT better than me needless to say.

8 minutes ago, RLC said:

I agree that Howie's superpower is his aggressiveness, emboldened by Jeffrey Lurie.

Howie is able to take risks without getting fired. That's huge! He took a shot at Robert Quinn. It didn't work out. Cost us a late 4th. Also took a shot at CJGJ for a 5th which was key to getting us to the SB. The value of one 4th and one 5th for both Quinn and CJGJ is worth it.

Same logic applies to a lot of his trades. Sometimes, you get Darius Slay. Sometimes you get Genard Avery.

In the aggregate, he wins more than he loses.

Look at the Cowboys. They were risk-averse with Dak on his rookie deal and have 2 playoff wins since 2016 to show for it. They have all-pros on their roster during that time (Martin, Parsons, Zeke, Tyron Smith) and couldn't push it. They'll make the playoffs again and lose in RD1 & 2.

I don't think risk aversion is the problem there.  No one above the head coach is ever getting fired; they're family.  They just don't know how to construct a roster.

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Off-season trades…always wins.

Mid season trades…almost always loses.

I think in the offseason, he’s more careful in adding complete players that project as solutions.  Mid season, he’s been more aggressive in adding flawed boosts and needs.

I think measuring his success with in season trades probably should be as compared to other teams.   It's also unfair to say he lost a trade unless what the other team received turns out to be more hepful than what the Eagles received. 

7 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I don't think risk aversion is the problem there.  No one above the head coach is ever getting fired; they're family.  They just don't know how to construct a roster.

Exactly. Dallas is a master class on how to scout well and pick solid players, but fail miserably at roster construction because you have zero concept of positional value. They not only drafted a RB at #4, they gave him a massive extension. Then in 2020 they draft a WR when they need defense, then trade away their previous #1 WR on a reasonable deal for a 5th round pick. 

Jerry thinks he is Al Davis. But he's only Al at the end of his time, not the Al that built champions. Jerry has never built squat.

20 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Off-season trades…always wins.

Mid season trades…almost always loses.

I think in the offseason, he’s more careful in adding complete players that project as solutions.  Mid season, he’s been more aggressive in adding flawed boosts and needs.

Interesting. Philadelphia Eagles Transactions" (spotrac.com)

Off-season

• AJ Brown (hit)
• Josiah Scott (miss)
• Carson Went (hit)
• Slay (hit)
• Hassan Ridgeway (hit)
• Jordan Howard (hit)
• Michael Bennett to Pats (hit). He was washed
• Worley (miss)
• Michael Bennett from Seattle (hit). His last good season

Pre-season/training camp

• Reagor (hit)
• CJGJ (hit)
• JJAW for a 6 through Amadi (hit)
• Pryor (neither)
• Minshew (hit)
• Ford (neither)
• Eli Harold (miss). Ryan Bates is better

During the season

• Quinn (miss)
• Kary Vincent (miss)
• Flacco (hit)
• Ertz (hit)
• Avery (miss)
• Riley (hit). Sent a worse player (Cyprien) and got a better draft pick
• Golden Tate (hit). Won a playoff game. Got a 4th round comp pick back
• Ajayi (hit)

 

Howie definitely wins more than he losses. His in-season misses aren't as impactful as I thought they'd be. It's annoying to give up day 3 picks though. Hopefully Howie reminds other GMs of his misses like Robert Quinn and keeps firing.

 

Ok, so back from Kansas City with a little more sleep and time to digest everything that happened…

* I’m curious who the Eagles were bidding against to trade up for Carter. My guess is nobody since the Bears moved down for so cheap, or the cost was simply too prohibitive for a player with his concerns. I was anti-trade up for Carter, but I firmly expected the Eagles to have to move up a bit higher  to hop the Bears. For a 4, it was worth it even if there were no other suitors. I understand all the concerns people have about Carter, but we’re talking about a player with HoF potential. The stars were aligned to make the pick.

* I would have rationalized the hell out of Nolan Smith at 10, but I would not have been happy at all. He had an amazing combine, but he just didn’t excite me as a prospect. I know McLane said he would have been under consideration at 10, but I question that a bit. If that’s true, why didn’t they move up for him? I haven’t read anywhere that the Eagles were calling teams to move up. Regardless, Smith is a Micah Parsons-type athlete with an elite character makeup. Maybe Parsons is a unicorn, but I’d much rather bet on an outlier at 30 than 10. 

* Steen was the obligatory Stoutland pick. We knew we were adding an OL somewhere in the draft. He was announced as a guard so I assume that’s where he’ll focus his time in camp, but have the ability to play either tackle spot in a pinch. 

* Brown is a fun player. I wish one of our safeties (not counting Evans because he’s too far down the depth chart) projected better as a deep safety in the wide side of the field. The red star thing is cool to read about it, and it’s nice to have a physical and mental tone setter out there. I think we’ll like him a lot. I expect him to start no later than year 2 but be an immediate contributor.

* Ringo has name value and fell. I tend to not get overly excited about guys who fall later than expected in the draft (I was Eeyore when it came to Dean last year as well). Trading a future 3 (even if it only ended up being for a pick maybe 10 spots better in 2024) shows conviction about the player, and backs up Howie’s claim that they had him much higher than that on their board. This is not a typical Howie move. Ringo isn’t a great athlete. He has great straight line speed and is tall but doesn’t have long arms. He’s a little stiff so maybe he needs to be a predominantly zone corner or eventually move to safety. 

* McKee. I haven’t watched him. I know he was a top recruit and took a mission, delaying his college career. What was he, the 11th QB taken? I like him much better than Book as the developmental guy based on what I’ve read. Plus Book stinks.

* Ojomo is someone I liked quite a bit on first watch. He doesn’t have a monster upside, but he is explosive, has long arms, can play multiple positions. He looks like he has potential as a long term fourth DT.

* As far as the UDFAs go, I’m probably most excited about Haselwood. He looks like a Pascal type. I know that’s not a high-impact player or position on the team, but I think we needed that type of player on the roster somewhere. He’s a bully, and he’s physical. And he’s slow. Ngata got big money so he has a leg up. He was a five star recruit so there’s some upside in there somewhere. Ricks seemed like an ideal draft target until he ran a 4.6. He was supposed to be the next big thing at both LSU and Alabama but it he never put it together. After Haselwood, Garner would be the guy I’m most intrigued by if he transitions to safety. A press man corner probably doesn’t fit here, but his frame and coverage skills at safety is exciting. 

1 hour ago, McMVP said:

I wonder who they will get for the first Thursday night game this season.  Doesn’t it have to be the Bills, Bengals, Chargers, or Eagles?  I don’t see their other home opponents being good enough stories to be in that game.  Unless they feel Sean Payton makes the Broncos more interesting and they put them in the mix for consideration.  

Goodell would be an idiot for making the Division champ go on the road against the Super Bowl winner to start the season.  I think the Bengals but if they go NFC, the Lions would be an interesting choice.  

17 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Exactly. Dallas is a master class on how to scout well and pick solid players, but fail miserably at roster construction because you have zero concept of positional value. They not only drafted a RB at #4, they gave him a massive extension. Then in 2020 they draft a WR when they need defense, then trade away their previous #1 WR on a reasonable deal for a 5th round pick. 

Jerry thinks he is Al Davis. But he's only Al at the end of his time, not the Al that built champions. Jerry has never built squat.

Imagine the ish show in Dallas had they not stumbled across a UDFA QB named Romo and a fourth-round QB named Prescott.  That's 15+ seasons of not having to invest significant draft capital at the QB position.  All they have to show is 4-8 in the playoffs with no NFCCG.

2 hours ago, Waiting4Someday said:

We'll see about Kincaid, 1st round TEs aren't always what they are cracked up to be as they typically take a bit of development in the league - and he's in the 240lbs, so somewhat specialized (e.g., Calcaterra).  I like Schoonmaker, maybe not in the 2nd, but he could turn out decent and can play inline. 

They are already talking about playing Kincaid exclusively in the slot more as a WR than as a TE.

17 minutes ago, RLC said:

Interesting. Philadelphia Eagles Transactions" (spotrac.com)

Off-season

• AJ Brown (hit)
• Josiah Scott (miss)
• Carson Went (hit)
• Slay (hit)
• Hassan Ridgeway (hit)
• Jordan Howard (hit)
• Michael Bennett to Pats (hit). He was washed
• Worley (miss)
• Michael Bennett from Seattle (hit). His last good season

Pre-season/training camp

• Reagor (hit)
• CJGJ (hit)
• JJAW for a 6 through Amadi (hit)
• Pryor (neither)
• Minshew (hit)
• Ford (neither)
• Eli Harold (miss). Ryan Bates is better

During the season

• Quinn (miss)
• Kary Vincent (miss)
• Flacco (hit)
• Ertz (hit)
• Avery (miss)
• Riley (hit). Sent a worse player (Cyprien) and got a better draft pick
• Golden Tate (hit). Won a playoff game. Got a 4th round comp pick back
• Ajayi (hit)

 

Howie definitely wins more than he losses. His in-season misses aren't as impactful as I thought they'd be. It's annoying to give up day 3 picks though. Hopefully Howie reminds other GMs of his misses like Robert Quinn and keeps firing.

 

Tate was not a hit, regardless of him catching a TD pass when he didn’t know what route to run. 

Eagles traded pick 88 for Tate. 4th round comp pick was 146. Depends on the model that you want to use, but it's about the price of a top of a 4th rounder. That's not a bad price.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

Eagles traded pick 88 for Tate. 4th round comp pick was 146. Depends on the model that you want to use, but it's about the price of a top of a 4th rounder. That's not a bad price.

It’s a bad price. It’s not Genard Avery or Robert Quinn, but bad nonetheless. 

20 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Ok, so back from Kansas City with a little more sleep and time to digest everything that happened…

* I’m curious who the Eagles were bidding against to trade up for Carter. My guess is nobody since the Bears moved down for so cheap, or the cost was simply too prohibitive for a player with his concerns. I was anti-trade up for Carter, but I firmly expected the Eagles to have to move up a bit higher  to hop the Bears. For a 4, it was worth it even if there were no other suitors. I understand all the concerns people have about Carter, but we’re talking about a player with HoF potential. The stars were aligned to make the pick.

* I would have rationalized the hell out of Nolan Smith at 10, but I would not have been happy at all. He had an amazing combine, but he just didn’t excite me as a prospect. I know McLane said he would have been under consideration at 10, but I question that a bit. If that’s true, why didn’t they move up for him? I haven’t read anywhere that the Eagles were calling teams to move up. Regardless, Smith is a Micah Parsons-type athlete with an elite character makeup. Maybe Parsons is a unicorn, but I’d much rather bet on an outlier at 30 than 10. 

* Steen was the obligatory Stoutland pick. We knew we were adding an OL somewhere in the draft. He was announced as a guard so I assume that’s where he’ll focus his time in camp, but have the ability to play either tackle spot in a pinch. 

* Brown is a fun player. I wish one of our safeties (not counting Evans because he’s too far down the depth chart) projected better as a deep safety in the wide side of the field. The red star thing is cool to read about it, and it’s nice to have a physical and mental tone setter out there. I think we’ll like him a lot. I expect him to start no later than year 2 but be an immediate contributor.

* Ringo has name value and fell. I tend to not get overly excited about guys who fall later than expected in the draft (I was Eeyore when it came to Dean last year as well). Trading a future 3 (even if it only ended up being for a pick maybe 10 spots better in 2024) shows conviction about the player, and backs up Howie’s claim that they had him much higher than that on their board. This is not a typical Howie move. Ringo isn’t a great athlete. He has great straight line speed and is tall but doesn’t have long arms. He’s a little stiff so maybe he needs to be a predominantly zone corner or eventually move to safety. 

* McKee. I haven’t watched him. I know he was a top recruit and took a mission, delaying his college career. What was he, the 11th QB taken? I like him much better than Book as the developmental guy based on what I’ve read. Plus Book stinks.

* Ojomo is someone I liked quite a bit on first watch. He doesn’t have a monster upside, but he is explosive, has long arms, can play multiple positions. He looks like he has potential as a long term fourth DT.

* As far as the UDFAs go, I’m probably most excited about Haselwood. He looks like a Pascal type. I know that’s not a high-impact player or position on the team, but I think we needed that type of player on the roster somewhere. He’s a bully, and he’s physical. And he’s slow. Ngata got big money so he has a leg up. He was a five star recruit so there’s some upside in there somewhere. Ricks seemed like an ideal draft target until he ran a 4.6. He was supposed to be the next big thing at both LSU and Alabama but it he never put it together. After Haselwood, Garner would be the guy I’m most intrigued by if he transitions to safety. A press man corner probably doesn’t fit here, but his frame and coverage skills at safety is exciting. 

I think the reason they didnt trade up again for Nolan Smith was because it became pretty clear after a certain point, that he just wasnt a fit for a bunch of those teams in front of them. They trusted their projections that he would fall to them after a certain point.

Ringo is tall with 4.3 speed and stiffness. Looks like he is a zone CB. Greedy is a tall CB with 4.3 speed. I said back when we signed Greedy Williams that he may have been mis-cast as a lock down cover guy, and probably does better as a zone CB.  Ricks is tall with a bad 3 cone. Looks like a zone CB. Bradberry, as we know, is best as a zone CB. Jobe has no testing numbers, but most of those Alabama CBs end up falling a bit from pre-season rankings as they are usually a little stiff, and project best as zone CBs.

It appears the eagles have a type.

30 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

* I would have rationalized the hell out of Nolan Smith at 10, but I would not have been happy at all. He had an amazing combine, but he just didn’t excite me as a prospect. I know McLane said he would have been under consideration at 10, but I question that a bit. If that’s true, why didn’t they move up for him? I haven’t read anywhere that the Eagles were calling teams to move up. Regardless, Smith is a Micah Parsons-type athlete with an elite character makeup. Maybe Parsons is a unicorn, but I’d much rather bet on an outlier at 30 than 10. 

 

I would have rationalized Smith at 10 as well, as I love the prospect.  But it's not good value.  He belonged in the conversation at 10 and just might have been their top guy.  But I think we all know that Howie would have tried like hell to trade down rather than actually pick Smith at 10.

If you have 15 minutes, you should watch this about Sydney Brown and his brother Chase.

 

1 hour ago, Thrive said:

Good lord. Joe Banner’s hubris is truly unmatched. And this was Howie’s mentor? No wonder our FO has been an ish show with both Banner and Howie until recently.

He basically spent the entire article telling us that he is the reason for this revolutionary way of general managing without having the guts of just plainly saying it.

Joe left out:

”The Eagles believe in firing A-holes, that’s why Jeff fired me and why I haven’t been able to get a football job since then.”

33 minutes ago, mattwill said:

They are already talking about playing Kincaid exclusively in the slot more as a WR than as a TE.

Makes sense - but he'll likely draw a DB in coverage, so that might be new to him.

10 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I think the reason they didnt trade up again for Nolan Smith was because it became pretty clear after a certain point, that he just wasnt a fit for a bunch of those teams in front of them. They trusted their projections that he would fall to them after a certain point.

Ringo is tall with 4.3 speed and stiffness. Looks like he is a zone CB. Greedy is a tall CB with 4.3 speed. I said back when we signed Greedy Williams that he may have been mis-cast as a lock down cover guy, and probably does better as a zone CB.  Ricks is tall with a bad 3 cone. Looks like a zone CB. Bradberry, as we know, is best as a zone CB. Jobe has no testing numbers, but most of those Alabama CBs end up falling a bit from pre-season rankings as they are usually a little stiff, and project best as zone CBs.

It appears the eagles have a type.

Like with Carter, you don’t just trade up because the teams in front of you might want a player. You do it to prevent someone else from hopping you to get him. Maybe they had great intel, but Howie isn’t the type to sit patiently and let the draft come to him. He’s aggressive. Obviously they like Smith, but I question how much they really considered him at 10. 

5 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Joe left out:

”The Eagles believe in firing A-holes, that’s why Jeff fired me and why I haven’t been able to get a football job since then.”

The Browns hired him after Lurie fired him and he got lost in the wash of their instability. He’s done a bunch of consulting for teams since. 

People’s vitriol for Banner is weird. He deserves a ton of credit for building the foundation here, even if he comes off as arrogant. 

21 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I think the reason they didnt trade up again for Nolan Smith was because it became pretty clear after a certain point, that he just wasnt a fit for a bunch of those teams in front of them. They trusted their projections that he would fall to them after a certain point.

Ringo is tall with 4.3 speed and stiffness. Looks like he is a zone CB. Greedy is a tall CB with 4.3 speed. I said back when we signed Greedy Williams that he may have been mis-cast as a lock down cover guy, and probably does better as a zone CB.  Ricks is tall with a bad 3 cone. Looks like a zone CB. Bradberry, as we know, is best as a zone CB. Jobe has no testing numbers, but most of those Alabama CBs end up falling a bit from pre-season rankings as they are usually a little stiff, and project best as zone CBs.

It appears the eagles have a type.

Definitely a type. We are definitely a zone team under Desai. And I think we have the personnel to do it very very well.

12 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Joe left out:

”The Eagles believe in firing A-holes, that’s why Jeff fired me and why I haven’t been able to get a football job since then.”

He did go to the Browns after.

6 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The Browns hired him after Lurie fired him and he got lost in the wash of their instability. He’s done a bunch of consulting for teams since. 

People’s vitriol for Banner is weird. He deserves a ton of credit for building the foundation here, even if he comes off as arrogant. 

He'll always be hated for letting Dawk go 

52 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

* Ringo has name value and fell. I tend to not get overly excited about guys who fall later than expected in the draft (I was Eeyore when it came to Dean last year as well). Trading a future 3 (even if it only ended up being for a pick maybe 10 spots better in 2024) shows conviction about the player, and backs up Howie’s claim that they had him much higher than that on their board. This is not a typical Howie move. Ringo isn’t a great athlete. He has great straight line speed and is tall but doesn’t have long arms. He’s a little stiff so maybe he needs to be a predominantly zone corner or eventually move to safety. 

Howie said something about the Georgia players "lobbying for us to take other guys as well".  Whether that was just Dean and Davis or the other two guys as well after they were picked, I'm sure Ringo was one of the names they lobbied for.

1 hour ago, RLC said:

Look at the Cowboys. They were risk-averse with Dak on his rookie deal and have 2 playoff wins since 2016 to show for it. They have all-pros on their roster during that time (Martin, Parsons, Zeke, Tyron Smith) and couldn't push it. They'll make the playoffs again and lose in RD1 & 2.

Plenty of other reasons to that though. Big overpay on Dak, keep drafting low character guys, investing way too many resources on devalued positions like LB and RB. Hell, the LBer investments alone should prevent them to ever amount to anything.