Carter’s hand technique is pretty incredible. Watching some videos and it stands out.

Tatum with two travels in the final minutes 🤣

Yikes

3 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Carter’s hand technique is pretty incredible. Watching some videos and it stands out.

He is gonna be a bully up the middle

4 hours ago, RLC said:

We can do better than just getting fair catches.

They can do worse as well. Ask JR vs the Packers in 2008 or so.

4 hours ago, RLC said:

We can do better than just getting fair catches.

Covey was tied for 2nd most punt returns in the NFL.

 

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Covey also filled in as the emergency holder when Siposs got hurt and he handled that just fine (in the rain too).

 

I was not impressed with Covey at all in the first half of 2022. But he did show, IMO, nice improvement as the PR in the 2nd half of the season. He's a smallish guy and likely just not going to be an effective blocker (which is a must if you want to play with the starters on the Eagles). So, unsurprisingly, he didn't get many snaps as a WR as a rookie. Pascal had 338 snaps and only 19 targets as the 4th WR. Face it, if the Eagles are ahead in a game and riding the run game, they will have bigger guys than Covey in the game. Last year, Pascal had the WR "blocker" role. The year before, it was JJAW. 

It is possible for Covey to improve in that area. Smith isn't exactly a large person and he was a surprisingly effective and willing blocker. But when we are running the ball, would you rather have 5-8, 170lb Covey in for the play or another TE? I really only know Covey the punt returner. I don't know much about him as a WR. He could possibly develop into a poor man's Cole Beasley (probably the closest height / weight player to compare him to) in a system that uses small, shifty slot WRs. That just isn't the Eagles right now. So until we find a better punt returner ...

Maybe Zaccheaus will get a look there. He has a few NFL returns. He has the physical attributes to be effective there.

when you have Brown and Smith and Goedert,  those players are going to be on the field most of the time.  Almost always, and they'll be getting most of the targets.  Before the draft, the discussion was,  if Quez was to go, who would replace his valuable decoy routes? 

I like the Quez position, slot, to be the versatile back position.  If you want a blocker on the play,  the Eagles 53 man roster should hold a player who can block in that situation.   I like the idea of using defense players on offense, because freakbeast.  Nolan Smith.  But there is a long list of Eagles players on defense with high ras who have played offense.   They have udfa VanS,  who was a Michigan Fullback.   Yes,   VanS should be a better blocker than Covey or Watkins. 

Covey, in college,  was one of the top returners.   The Eagles roster full of freakbeasts has players who are better athletes than Covey.   Nolan Smith, 10 Ras at both WR and RB.   Did have 1 KR and 1 PR in college.  But there is a long list.   What Covey brings to the table is the actual ability to return punts and kicks.  If every top ras lb or db could return kicks and punts with the same ability,  then top ras defense can get that job.   But the Eagles can't just give Nolan Smith the starting KR/PR job because if he could handle the job, he'd be great at it due to 10 ras.   Covey has shown top competence at PR,  maybe not top ras, and that top competence puts him at 8th in the NFL at yards per punt return.

Other things that Covey can do.

Wide receiver.   He had 184 catches in his college career.

Running back. 49 carries in college.

Quarterback.  518.8 passer rating in college,  3/3 w 2 TDs.   Undefeated in HS as qb,  won the state championship twice.

Covey can return punts well, kicks sufficiently well, and can play on offense with agility and versatility, but lower at pure speed or size. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

when you have Brown and Smith and Goedert,  those players are going to be on the field most of the time.  Almost always, and they'll be getting most of the targets.  Before the draft, the discussion was,  if Quez was to go, who would replace his valuable decoy routes? 

I like the Quez position, slot, to be the versatile back position.  If you want a blocker on the play,  the Eagles 53 man roster should hold a player who can block in that situation.   I like the idea of using defense players on offense, because freakbeast.  Nolan Smith.  But there is a long list of Eagles players on defense with high ras who have played offense.   They have udfa VanS,  who was a Michigan Fullback.   Yes,   VanS should be a better blocker than Covey or Watkins. 

Covey, in college,  was one of the top returners.   The Eagles roster full of freakbeasts has players who are better athletes than Covey.   Nolan Smith, 10 Ras at both WR and RB.   Did have 1 KR and 1 PR in college.  But there is a long list.   What Covey brings to the table is the actual ability to return punts and kicks.  If every top ras lb or db could return kicks and punts with the same ability,  then top ras defense can get that job.   But the Eagles can't just give Nolan Smith the starting KR/PR job because if he could handle the job, he'd be great at it due to 10 ras.   Covey has shown top competence at PR,  maybe not top ras, and that top competence puts him at 8th in the NFL at yards per punt return.

Other things that Covey can do.

Wide receiver.   He had 184 catches in his college career.

Running back. 49 carries in college.

Quarterback.  518.8 passer rating in college,  3/3 w 2 TDs.   Undefeated in HS as qb,  won the state championship twice.

Covey can return punts well, kicks sufficiently well, and can play on offense with agility and versatility, but lower at pure speed or size. 

 

 

You do realise we've all watched Covey play yeah?

M'fer had about 2 decent returns all season, the rest were a mix of fair catches and headlong rushes into the arms of the first defender. There wasn't a Covey return all season that got you sitting up thinking 'holy crap he's taking it all the way' before he got stopped by a last gasp effort. Maybe that's the Special teams, god knows they weren't great last year, but Covey wasn't exactly an elusive target. 

He was better than Reagor, but I would give Reagor a run for his money.

15 catches for 150 yards and 1 TD.  Those are the numbers from Zach Pascal last year.  If Covey was able to just match that production, I don't think we're having this conversation.  The issue is he contributes nothing on offense.  

28 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

15 catches for 150 yards and 1 TD.  Those are the numbers from Zach Pascal last year.  If Covey was able to just match that production, I don't think we're having this conversation.  The issue is he contributes nothing on offense.  

Pascal did far more than that.  And what he provided, Covey can't.  

7 hours ago, Texas Eagle said:

Carter’s hand technique is pretty incredible. Watching some videos and it stands out.

At 22, Jalen Carter has all-pro ceiling. It's rare to see iDL that strong enter the league who can also rush the passer. 

Dude just needs to chill and keep his head on straight.

11 minutes ago, RLC said:

At 22, Jalen Carter has all-pro ceiling. It's rare to see iDL that strong enter the league who can also rush the passer. 

Dude just needs to chill and keep his head on straight.

Have Uber as his home screen on his phone.

40 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

15 catches for 150 yards and 1 TD.  Those are the numbers from Zach Pascal last year.  If Covey was able to just match that production, I don't think we're having this conversation.  The issue is he contributes nothing on offense.  

 

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Pascal did far more than that.  And what he provided, Covey can't.  

Pascal was WR4. Covey was WR5. Pascal was in his 5th year and came into the season with 44 career starts. Covey was a rookie and wasn't even on the active roster until week 4.

Covey's role was PR. He also allowed us to have a 5th WR active for every game. We didn't ever get to the point where injuries required us to rely on WR5. We do not yet know what Covey can or cannot do as a WR in the NFL.

15 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Pascal was WR4. Covey was WR5. Pascal was in his 5th year and came into the season with 44 career starts. Covey was a rookie and wasn't even on the active roster until week 4.

Covey's role was PR. He also allowed us to have a 5th WR active for every game. We didn't ever get to the point where injuries required us to rely on WR5. We do not yet know what Covey can or cannot do as a WR in the NFL.

Irrelevant to my point.   Covey can't do what Pascal did.   BTW... Covey was a 25 year old rookie.  He was maxed out physically.  He was not a 20 or 21 year old rookie.

Pascal 6'2" 215 lbs.
Covey 5'8" 172 lbs.

They are not interchangeable.  And Covey can't fill the role that Pascal did last year.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Irrelevant to my point.   Covey can't do what Pascal did.   BTW... Covey was a 25 year old rookie.  He was maxed out physically.  He was not a 20 or 21 year old rookie.

Pascal 6'2" 215 lbs.
Covey 5'8" 172 lbs.

They are not interchangeable.  And Covey can't fill the role that Pascal did last year.

That's why the Eagles signed Zaccheaus. Pascal's role was not WR5. I don't even know if we would activate a 5th WR on game day if he wasn't used for a key role on ST. 

I'm not suggesting Covey is going to physically grow, but he can add strength and still learn a lot about playing WR at this level. Age is irrelevant. 

No one really responded to the dilemma of an active fourth RB.  The issue isn’t just that Covey was only a RS that offered nothing on other STs, it was that he is only a PR.  Doesn’t even handle KOR.  Frankly, I think both Scott and Gainwell can handle some routes and possibly some slot at WR.  I wouldn’t mind at all if Scott got a jugs machine, set it on punts and invited Gainwell, Zaccheaus, Ward, Ringo (wonder how he would be as a returner), McPhearson, Rambo, and Allen to join him this offseason learning to field punts.  Catching a Kick off is different than catching a punt but both can be learned if the person could catch. 

15 hours ago, T-1000 said:

Revisionist history.  Bobrovsky had a really bad second year and with an undrafted pedigree it looked like his first year was a fluke. NOBODY expected him to become a vezina winning goalie, if that were the case other teams would have been bidding for him and they would have gotten way more than two 2nd round picks for him. Meanwhile Bryzgalov was good in Anaheim sharing the job with JSG and then lights out for a bad Phoenix team for a few years as the guy. His four years in Phoenix he had save percentages of .921, .906, .920, and .921 and a GAA of 2.48 or less in three of the four years. He was legit one of the best goalies in the league during that stretch and for whatever reason imploded after he got the big money deal.

They signed Bryzgalov after Bobrovsky's rookie year.  He had a bad year in a back up role.  He demanded a trade because he didn't want to be a back up to Bryzgalov.  They had them both on the team and should not have traded Bobrovsky. 

8 hours ago, Iggles25 said:

Tatum with two travels in the final minutes 🤣

Yikes

Wait I'm confused they called him for travels?  My nickname for Tatum is "The Running Back" because he's always carrying the ball and uses a stiff arm to get free from defenders.

6 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

They signed Bryzgalov after Bobrovsky's rookie year.  He had a bad year in a back up role.  He demanded a trade because he didn't want to be a back up to Bryzgalov.  They had them both on the team and should not have traded Bobrovsky. 

This stuff isn't even hard to look up for folks who are too young to remember, or not smart enough to know what was going on.  Bobrovsky started 52 games in 2011, then the Flyers signed Bryzgalov to a 9-year contract for huge money after the season.  Anyone in his position would have asked for a trade.

I see Superstar Billy Graham passed away yesterday.  Hulk Hogan stole most of his gimmick.

 

2 hours ago, bpac55 said:

15 catches for 150 yards and 1 TD.  Those are the numbers from Zach Pascal last year.  If Covey was able to just match that production, I don't think we're having this conversation.  The issue is he contributes nothing on offense.  

He was a FA rookie holy crap. Even making the team is beyond impressive. We don’t know if he can do squat on offense. 

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

You do realise we've all watched Covey play yeah?

M'fer had about 2 decent returns all season, the rest were a mix of fair catches and headlong rushes into the arms of the first defender. There wasn't a Covey return all season that got you sitting up thinking 'holy crap he's taking it all the way' before he got stopped by a last gasp effort. Maybe that's the Special teams, god knows they weren't great last year, but Covey wasn't exactly an elusive target. 

He was better than Reagor, but I would give Reagor a run for his money.

Part of the issue is that our expectations of all punt returners is based on history … and the historical punters were nowhere near as good as today’s punters, especially with respect to the hang time of their punts.  As a result the options for the returners are significantly reduced.  Holy crap returns (for all 32 teams) simply don’t happen anywhere near as frequently in reality as they do in our memories.

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

You do realise we've all watched Covey play yeah?

M'fer had about 2 decent returns all season, the rest were a mix of fair catches and headlong rushes into the arms of the first defender. There wasn't a Covey return all season that got you sitting up thinking 'holy crap he's taking it all the way' before he got stopped by a last gasp effort. Maybe that's the Special teams, god knows they weren't great last year, but Covey wasn't exactly an elusive target. 

He was better than Reagor, but I would give Reagor a run for his money.

I guess it's hard to be a punt returner?

He was number 8 in yards per punt return.   Not great.  7 were better. 

But there are 32 teams in the NFL, so 8, when there are 32 teams,  is good.  Not best.  But I would argue that udfa rookie who was 8th in yards per punt return did a good job, and maybe we can see more of him on offense.   His video from college shows him doing weapony type stuff, jet sweep,  jet sweep then throw.  He can do things from Quez's spot - slot / versatile back - that Quez can't do. 

So, the points I was trying to make weren't that Covey is great and he should get all the snaps,  but that he did a good job last year as a punt returner,  27 yard punt return in the Super Bowl was good, and it's totally wrong to say Covey can't do anything on offense.  He can do a lot.   Watkins isn't really good at running out of the backfield,  we haven't seen it yet with Covey in the NFL, but it could work, an additional run threat to go with Hurts and RB.   He's more agile than Quez,  turns faster, more moves.  

There is good stuff to look at here - Covey college highlights
 

 

Covey is fine as a punt returner, but I would like him to be more than just that. Would like to see him contribute more to the offense.

How many players did the Eagles carry last year that were essentially inactive or had extremely limited roles? Sermon, Covey, and Jobe? 

No idea why Sermon was on the roster all year and never really played. With Stout being the run game coordinator and also known for quizzing the players on assignments, I wonder if Sermon wasn't able to answer the questions in order to get playing time. Covey is extremely one dimensional and the needs to able to contribute on offense or I would rather them go with someone else. Jobe primarily played on ST, but got very limited snaps towards the end of the season. Now with a crowded DB corps, its going to be tough for him to get some more playing time.

25 minutes ago, mattwill said:

Part of the issue is that our expectations of all punt returners is based on history … and the historical punters were nowhere near as good as today’s punters, especially with respect to the hang time of their punts.  As a result the options for the returners are significantly reduced.  Holy crap returns (for all 32 teams) simply don’t happen anywhere near as frequently in reality as they do in our memories.

All a person really has to do is look at the PR leaders from last season.  The best PR were about 10.5 - 12.5 yards per return.  Covey was 9.3 yards per return.  He's not inspiring, but he's also not problematic.  

His roster spot for PR could be taken up by one of the RBs, but I'm not sure that doesn't mean the Eagles aren't dressing an extra RB for that purpose anyway.  As has been said before, I think the biggest gain on special teams would be to:  1) improve kick and punt coverage,  2) look at getting a punter with a bigger leg, then  3) get a more dynamic KR/PR specialist.

 

21 hours ago, eagle45 said:

I think all leagues should make teams earn the #1 pick.  

There does need to be an equalizing force in leagues that generate life cycles for teams (The NBA is the worst for this, NFL the best).  Hard to stay at the top, but teams in decline get opportunities for re-birth.  That's necessary...BUT...remove the incentive to be THE worst team in the league.  Remove the incentive to lose all your games at the end of the year.

One option is to flip the draft order of the non-playoff teams.  If you are THE worst team in the league, screw you...you pick 15th.  Claw your way back and then you get to pick top 3 once you just miss the playoff cut.  You barely miss the playoffs on a technicality on conference record?  That sucks...but here's the #1 overall pick.  Keep everyone playing hard all year long.

I like that idea more than I thought I would. An 9 seed conceivably becomes a title contender overnight.

My issue would be that they then leapfrog the lower seeds that actually make the playoffs. The incentive structure is perverse. If I’m a GM, I’d be benching my starters if it looks like I’m a 7 or 8 seed. You know you aren’t winning anything, but you probably are one super star away from title contention.