EMB Blog: 2023 Camps and Preseason - NO POLITICS

[D-Shiznit]

14 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Holy snot

The Eagles are 79-47-1 with Lane Johnson

The Eagles are 13-22 without Lane Johnson

 

That’s a better split than many pro bowl quarterbacks

I have said this before, in an era where we had Jason Peters and Jason Kelce, it was Lane that was and continues to be the most valuable O-Lineman.

[Infam]

1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

I have said this before, in an era where we had Jason Peters and Jason Kelce, it was Lane that was and continues to be the most valuable O-Lineman.

Not fair, just because Kelce never misses games..

[HazletonEagle]

6 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

So the sixers literally have no draft picks this year?

Right.  Because of Moreys tampering for Tucker and House.

Should have at least had a 2nd rounder but it's forfeited. 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, Infam said:

Not fair, just because Kelce never misses games..

Not to mention that Peters missed a bunch of games in that stretch as well, and it's hard to cover up for BOTH OTs. 

[bpac55]

USFL games were being replayed last night and I still can't get over the hub city thing.  There may have been 50 fans at the games that were being shown.  How does any league think they are going to survive with that blueprint?  I just don't understand this at all.  

This is the 2023 XFL average attendance chart:

St. Louis Battlehawks – 35,104

San Antonio Brahmas – 14,983

D.C. Defenders – 14,269

Seattle Sea Dragons – 12,310

Arlington Renegades – 12,055

Houston Roughnecks – 11,768

Orlando Guardians – 8,931

Vegas Vipers – 6,028

Subaru Stadium, the Union's home field, has a capacity of 18,500.  The DC Defenders played at Audi Field with a capacity of 20,000 fans.  Do you want to tell me that Philly wouldn't come close to selling out Subaru Stadium?  Imagine a natural rivalry with the Pittsburgh Maulers.  

Plus, just look at the gorgeous site lines here. I've been there for a UD/Nova football game and it was a great place to watch football. 

[Kwahu]

42 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

USFL games were being replayed last night and I still can't get over the hub city thing.  There may have been 50 fans at the games that were being shown.  How does any league think they are going to survive with that blueprint?  I just don't understand this at all.  

This is the 2023 XFL average attendance chart:

St. Louis Battlehawks – 35,104

San Antonio Brahmas – 14,983

D.C. Defenders – 14,269

Seattle Sea Dragons – 12,310

Arlington Renegades – 12,055

Houston Roughnecks – 11,768

Orlando Guardians – 8,931

Vegas Vipers – 6,028

Subaru Stadium, the Union's home field, has a capacity of 18,500.  The DC Defenders played at Audi Field with a capacity of 20,000 fans.  Do you want to tell me that Philly wouldn't come close to selling out Subaru Stadium?  Imagine a natural rivalry with the Pittsburgh Maulers.  

Plus, just look at the gorgeous site lines here. I've been there for a UD/Nova football game and it was a great place to watch football. 

Apparently this is a short term business decision to avoid what happened to the AAF budget wise 🤷‍♂️. The goal is to eventually get the teams into their local markets.

 

I just want the damn merger with the XFL already. I think spring football is fun, and the farm league concept will be a long term boon for the NFL.

[bpac55]

26 minutes ago, Kwahu said:

Apparently this is a short term business decision to avoid what happened to the AAF budget wise 🤷‍♂️. The goal is to eventually get the teams into their local markets.

 

I just want the damn merger with the XFL already. I think spring football is fun, and the farm league concept will be a long term boon for the NFL.

Agree 100%.  I just hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot before they get the chance to grow.  If you look at TV viewership, the USFL has slightly better numbers than the XFL.  I think some of that can be attributed to the "name brand" the USFL has with an older audience vs. how a lot of people perceive the XFL.  I'd bet there's a potential audience the XFL is missing out on because they refuse to think it's anything different than the OG XFL rather than the progressive league it's trying to be.  If those stubborn fans would give the XFL a chance, I think they would really like what they see.

I also think a merger would make the most sense in the long run as well as taking a chance on big name busts or ex NFL stars who still want to play.  It was really  neat to see a guy like AJ McCarron, who could easily be a backup in the NFL, decide he wanted to actually play football so his kids could see him play.  Is it possible more players might have the mindset of playing vs. sitting?

Cam Newton, Carson Wentz, Johnny Manziel...Can these leagues attract former stars to play?  XFL players are getting something like $60k, USFL players are earning roughly $47k before any bonuses kick in.  They get $850 per win so the potential for an extra $8,500 is there and another $10,000 for winning the Championship.   As of today, New Orleans Breakers players have earned an extra $3,400 for their 4 wins and every team has at least 2 wins so every player in the league has earned at least $1,700.  If the Breakers continue their dominance and double their win total AND win the championship, their players probably earn $65k

If you're Cam Newton....would you rather suck it up and sit on the bench for the NFL minimum of $1.08 million or would you actually play the game for $60k.  Pretty silly comparison when all is said and done.  However, no one is signing Cam Newton right now so would you rather play football for $60k for 3 months work or not make a dime sitting at home?  Maybe showing he can still play gets him another starting gig in the NFL...who knows?

Ideally, these leagues merge and become development teams for the NFL. Would be great to see Eagles players either scattered across the league a la old NFL Europe or an Eagles farm team. I think it one way to build local fans is if every team had to have a certain % of players from schools within the state on the team.  If the Philadelphia Stars had some PSU, Temple, Nova guys, it might build a local fan base.  Probably a really far fetched idea but just trying to think outside the box.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

I have a layered question

Is dual possession a real thing? I’m asking this knowing that the offense gets the ball in a catch being determined dual possession. But what I’m wondering is if the act of dual possession is recognized, which then awards the offense the ball, or if there is no dual possession and if you feel the need to call dual possession then that just means the offense caught it. Does that make sense?

Here’s the conundrum: WR and CB jump for a wounded duck. They simultaneously get their hands on the ball and pin it to their own chests, and the ensemble falls on the DB’s back… ball pinned between the two players’ chests. In this scenario that’s dual possession, and the WR is awarded the ball. However, if the WR’s knees aren’t touching the ground, then this becomes more complicated. If dual possession is recognized by the ref, then the DB is down by contact but the ball is awarded to the WR. If dual possession is not an actual thing, just a training term to show different ways WRs can successfully catch the ball, then the WR isn’t down and the play is still live.

My instinct is the latter is true because technically the DB never really possessed the ball, so he can’t be down. However, the actual rule book makes it sound like dual possession happened:

”If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. ”

Not "appears” to be caught simultaneously,  but "is”. And the DB is recognized as retaining the ball to award it to the WR.

[Iggles_Phan]

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not to mention that Peters missed a bunch of games in that stretch as well, and it's hard to cover up for BOTH OTs. 

This got me curious... so I did a little digging:

Record where both LT & RT started; Record where only LT missed start; Record where only RT missed start; Record missing both LT & RT; 

2013 - All 16 games had both Peters and Johnson.  10-6.  0-1 playoffs.

2014 - 12 games had both Peters and Johnson.  7-5 record.  0 games without Peters.  3-1 record without Johnson.   0 games where they both missed.

2015 - 14 games had both Peters and Johnson 6-8 record.  2 games with Peters 1-1 record.  0 games without Johnson.  0 games where they both missed.

2016 - 6 games with both Peters and Johnson 5-1 record.  0 games without Peters.   10 games without Johnson 2-8.   0 games where they both missed.

2017 - 6 games with both Peters and Johnson 5-1 record.  9 games without Peters. 7-2 record.  1 game without Johnson 1-0.  0 games where they both missed.

2018 - 15 games with both Peters and Johnson 9-6 record.  0 games without Peters.  1 game without Johnson 0-1.  0 games where they both missed.

2019 - 13 games with both Peters and Johnson 7-6 record.  3 games without Peters 2-1 record.   4 games without Johnson 3-1 record.   0 games where they both missed.

This takes us up through the Super Bowl year PLUS 2... and the record without Johnson seems skewed due to the first year with Pederson at HC and Wentz at QB.  6 games under 0.500.  The Eagles were actually 4 games OVER 0.500 in the other seasons without Johnson.

For quick reference, through the 2019 season the Eagles were:

• 45-33 with both Peters and Johnson starting the game.
• 10-4 without Peters but with Johnson starting the game.  (*2017 stands as the major reason, as the Eagles were 5 games over 0.500 after Peters went down) 
• 9-11 without Johnson, but with Peters starting the game.  (This is hardly the overwhelming negative that it has been highlighted.  2016 with the start of the Pederson/Wentz era stands to skew the numbers, as the 2017 season, also an outlier greatly skews the record without Peters the opposite way.)

 

 

2020 is where things begin to skew... and that's when the LT position became a mess.  Dillard was pencilled in as the starter in TC, but then he tore a pec muscle and was lost for the year and the team had to scramble at LT.

2020 - Very murky waters to navigate.   For simplicity, I consider all games this season as having been MISSING the LT, because the planned starter was Dillard.
Week 1 - Peters in relief of Dillard, Driscoll in relief of Johnson (last minute scratch)  0-1.  (I consider this missing BOTH OTs). Mailata finished the game at RT, when Driscoll was injured.
Weeks 2 - 5 - Johnson returns.  Weeks 2 & 3, Peters at LT.  Team goes 0-1-1.   Weeks 4 & 5, Mailata starts at LT.  Team goes 1-1.
Week 6 - Johnson misses again.  Mailata at LT, Driscoll at RT.  Team loses 0-1.
Week 7 - Johnson back to RT.  Mailata remains at LT.  Team win.  1-0.
Week 8 - Peters back at LT.  Mailata to RT.  Team loses. 0-1
Week 10 & 11 - Johnson back at RT.  Peters remains at LT.   Team loses both.  0-2.
Week 12 - 17 - Johnson on IR.  And frankly, the positions get very murky from that point, as Peters, Driscoll and Mailata all end the season on the IR.  Team finishes 1-6 down the stretch.

So, here's where the swing comes in the "Johnson win pct." myth.  Without Johnson 2-7.  BUT... with Johnson, the team was 2-4-1, not a massive swing in his favor to prove his grave importance.  

 

We come out of the chaos that was the last year of Pederson and Wentz... and come into greater stability, where Mailata has established himself as the starting LT... and what do we see:

2021 - With both Mailata and Johnson starting.  Team record 8-4.  Without Mailata only 0-1.  Without Johnson only 1-1.  Without both 0-2.  *includes last game of year where they sat out due to no benefit of them playing.

2022 - With both Mailata and Johnson starting.  12-2.   Without Mailata only 1-0.   Without Johnson only 1-1.   No games where they both missed.

 

So, here's the breakdown...
When the Eagles have had BOTH starting OTs since 2013:  65 - 39.
When the Eagles have been down 1 starting OT since 2013: 21 - 19.
When the Eagles have been down BOTH starting OT since 2013:  1-11.

 

Now, you tell me... is it really the "Lane Johnson effect"?   I would say that the answer seems to be far more related to continuity along the OL... and when you don't have that, you will have miserable failures.  When you have minimal disruptions to the continuity along the OL, you will have marginal success.  And ultimate success seems to be much more achievable when there's perfect continuity along the OL, specifically at BOTH OT positions!

[Iggles_Phan]

18 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Agree 100%.  I just hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot before they get the chance to grow.  If you look at TV viewership, the USFL has slightly better numbers than the XFL.  I think some of that can be attributed to the "name brand" the USFL has with an older audience vs. how a lot of people perceive the XFL.  I'd bet there's a potential audience the XFL is missing out on because they refuse to think it's anything different than the OG XFL rather than the progressive league it's trying to be.  If those stubborn fans would give the XFL a chance, I think they would really like what they see.

I think the XFL's issue is much more related to the history of that name as well.  It came in as a gimmick league with the "He Hate Me" nonsense and the WWE/McMahon influence.  It turned me off, honestly.  And I haven't gone back because spring, to me, isn't really about football.  

[bpac55]

23 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I think the XFL's issue is much more related to the history of that name as well.  It came in as a gimmick league with the "He Hate Me" nonsense and the WWE/McMahon influence.  It turned me off, honestly.  And I haven't gone back because spring, to me, isn't really about football.  

Yea, that's what I was trying to imply.  I know my dad for instance, he HATES Vince McMahon.  I was never allowed to watch WWF as kid (strict household, no Simpsons or Married with Children either).  He didn't like the OG XFL and it's taken him a bit to warm to the new league.  However, like me, he's a huge college football fan so seeing players get a chance not in the NFL is a big draw. 

 

[bpac55]

Wild times here

 

[garingovt2000]

11 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Wild times here

 

Where does Collinsworth land in our next racist bracket?

[Kwahu]

1 hour ago, bpac55 said:

Agree 100%.  I just hope they don't shoot themselves in the foot before they get the chance to grow.  If you look at TV viewership, the USFL has slightly better numbers than the XFL.  I think some of that can be attributed to the "name brand" the USFL has with an older audience vs. how a lot of people perceive the XFL.  I'd bet there's a potential audience the XFL is missing out on because they refuse to think it's anything different than the OG XFL rather than the progressive league it's trying to be.  If those stubborn fans would give the XFL a chance, I think they would really like what they see.

I also think a merger would make the most sense in the long run as well as taking a chance on big name busts or ex NFL stars who still want to play.  It was really  neat to see a guy like AJ McCarron, who could easily be a backup in the NFL, decide he wanted to actually play football so his kids could see him play.  Is it possible more players might have the mindset of playing vs. sitting?

Cam Newton, Carson Wentz, Johnny Manziel...Can these leagues attract former stars to play?  XFL players are getting something like $60k, USFL players are earning roughly $47k before any bonuses kick in.  They get $850 per win so the potential for an extra $8,500 is there and another $10,000 for winning the Championship.   As of today, New Orleans Breakers players have earned an extra $3,400 for their 4 wins and every team has at least 2 wins so every player in the league has earned at least $1,700.  If the Breakers continue their dominance and double their win total AND win the championship, their players probably earn $65k

If you're Cam Newton....would you rather suck it up and sit on the bench for the NFL minimum of $1.08 million or would you actually play the game for $60k.  Pretty silly comparison when all is said and done.  However, no one is signing Cam Newton right now so would you rather play football for $60k for 3 months work or not make a dime sitting at home?  Maybe showing he can still play gets him another starting gig in the NFL...who knows?

Ideally, these leagues merge and become development teams for the NFL. Would be great to see Eagles players either scattered across the league a la old NFL Europe or an Eagles farm team. I think it one way to build local fans is if every team had to have a certain % of players from schools within the state on the team.  If the Philadelphia Stars had some PSU, Temple, Nova guys, it might build a local fan base.  Probably a really far fetched idea but just trying to think outside the box.

 

The only stumbling block to me is how this will effect practice squads. If it were a pure farm league we need 32 teams or a simple merger with 16 teams where two NFL teams share one each.

 

Or most likely we can just have 16 teams and the NFL just bids for these guys like UDFAs.

[ManuManu]

 

[RememberTheKoy]

3 hours ago, bpac55 said:

USFL games were being replayed last night and I still can't get over the hub city thing.  There may have been 50 fans at the games that were being shown.  How does any league think they are going to survive with that blueprint?  I just don't understand this at all.  

This is the 2023 XFL average attendance chart:

St. Louis Battlehawks – 35,104

San Antonio Brahmas – 14,983

D.C. Defenders – 14,269

Seattle Sea Dragons – 12,310

Arlington Renegades – 12,055

Houston Roughnecks – 11,768

Orlando Guardians – 8,931

Vegas Vipers – 6,028

Subaru Stadium, the Union's home field, has a capacity of 18,500.  The DC Defenders played at Audi Field with a capacity of 20,000 fans.  Do you want to tell me that Philly wouldn't come close to selling out Subaru Stadium?  Imagine a natural rivalry with the Pittsburgh Maulers.  

Plus, just look at the gorgeous site lines here. I've been there for a UD/Nova football game and it was a great place to watch football. 

 

 

Yeah I don't get why Philadelphia was again leftout having an XFL team.  How did the Spul do attendance wise compared to the rest of thr AFL?  Maybe that's thr answer.

[bpac55]

11 minutes ago, Kwahu said:

The only stumbling block to me is how this will effect practice squads. If it were a pure farm league we need 32 teams or a simple merger with 16 teams where two NFL teams share one each.

 

Or most likely we can just have 16 teams and the NFL just bids for these guys like UDFAs.

Yea, that's where it gets tricky.  I like the NFL Europe model of assigning players to teams.  I remember as a kid watching those games and how much I loved watching the games and seeing either the patch or helmet logo of the NFL team they were on.

Name this Eagle legend.

[bpac55]

4 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

I'm 42, but I might have to get a PS5 to play NCAA24.   I absolutely loved playing those games.

[devpool]

11 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

EA is just going to make Madden with college teams and it'll be garbage. I still play the old ones on 360

[Diehardfan]

9 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I have a Minnesota friend who is 100% convinced all sports are rigged; it’s a coping mechanism for him so he doesn’t have to accept that the teams he roots for really are that bad.

Tons of Eagles fans in the 90’s thought the NFL was rigged. Far fewer seem to now, even in the age of social media… I wonder what changed? Cowboys fans it’s the opposite. Everything was normal in the 90’s, and now their forums are cluttered with "cheating” and "scripted” threads every time their team does something stupid 

You think if NBA refs throw games it doesn't happen with all the money involved in other sports? The NFL wanted Patty to get a 2nd ring and they made it happen. Does that mean everyone is involved? No, but it only takes a few.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games

[BigEFly]

14 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Jump to 49:30, Mike Mayock talks about what it’s like when Howie Roseman and Bill Belichick call you if they want to do a trade. His impression of Howie made me laugh out loud

Good listen all told.  I get the feeling Chris Long would be a better NFL color guy than 90% of the guys out there currently. 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

You think if NBA refs throw games it doesn't happen with all the money involved in other sports? The NFL wanted Patty to get a 2nd ring and they made it happen. Does that mean everyone is involved? No, but it only takes a few.

 

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25980368/how-former-ref-tim-donaghy-conspired-fix-nba-games

A guy

[Diehardfan]

7 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

A guy

Lol yeah and it only happened once and unicorns are real. 

Sports aren't rigged

Here's proof 

Well, it only happened once

Sure....

[BigEFly]

14 hours ago, SkippyX said:

New Training Camp Body favorite. 

Charleston Rambo. He's the son of CFL and Jets preseason legend Ken-Yon Rambo.

Not perfect hands and limited a bit by speed but his cuts and stops are phenomenal. No loss of quickness or double steps in his turns.  If he can return punts and kicks like he did at OU as a junior, he would be real competition for Covey.  His 175 lbs and 4.57 forty hurt his draft status but looked good in the XFL.  Everything we liked out of OU.  Mistake going to the U too.

[bpac55]

14 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Good listen all told.  I get the feeling Chris Long would be a better NFL color guy than 90% of the guys out there currently. 

Both of these guys would be great.  I miss Mayock talking NFL draft stuff.  He might have bombed as a GM, but I loved listening to his breakdowns.